This is the stuff that I plan to carry in my Karrimor Sabre 30l. Can you give me advise on how to slim it down? Do you see any missing items?


Hiking kit:

1 Mora-knife
1 folding Saw
1 Sharpening-stone (v-shaped)
1 opinel no#7 (or similair knife)

1 pair of gloves
1 sun-hat (or ski-hat, depending on season)
1 bandanna
1 small bottle of sunscreen
1 small bottle of insect-repellent (50% DEET)
1 mosquito-headnet
1 pocket-size tin of Vaseline
1 ‘Sea to summit’ towel
25 desinfectant-wipes
1 bandanna
3 Brush-Away
1 pair nitrile gloves (for non-first-aid uses)

1 Large FAK:

- 1 hemocut
- 1 pair of illuminated tweezers
- 1 scalpel-blade
- 1 pair of tick-tweezers
- 1 click-away
- 1m duct-tape
- 1 triangulair bandage
- 1 quick-dressing no2.
- 6 safety-pins
- 18ml. desinfect-lotion (similar to Purrell)
- 2m medical-tape
- 1 gauze-roll medium.
- 2 ORS
- 10 Acethaminophen
- 10 Asperin
- 4 Immodium
- 7 antihistamine
- 6 glucose-tabs
- 4 Ibuprofen
- 1 ABD pad
- 2 quick-dressings no1.
- 1 ziplock
- 1 flexible thermometer
- 6 q-tips
- 6 gauze pads 1/16
- 30gr. Betadine ointment (tube)
- 1 syringe and needle
- 2 ampules of saline
- 2 pair nitrile gloves
- 1 assortment bandages (small,large,waterproof,fingertip,etc.)
- 6 alcohol-prep-pads)
- 6 Povidone-Iodine prep-pads
- 3 antibiotic-ointment packs.

1 LED-headlamp + 2 sets of extra batteries
1 photon-microlight
8 lightsticks (6x green, 2x red)
1 BIC-lighter
1 Fire-Steel Scout
25 Coghlan’s Wind/Waterproof matches + striker strip in 35mm film canister
15 Coghlan’s Emergency-Tinder and some cotton wool
4 small candles
2 ‘Camp-Heat’
1 Esbit-stove with extra fuel-tabs
4 disposable hand-warmers

1 Coghlan’s heavy-duty space-blanket
1 AMK Heatsheet Emergency Bivvy
1 hammock
1 poncho

1 1l militairy canteen
1 cup for canteen
1 Platypus 1l. water-bag (unfilled)
1 mess-tin
1 Spork
1 Vitamin C-drink powder 100gr. (2 l.)
2 O.R.S.
5 sweets
1 Cup a Soup chicken
1 energy-bars
1 roll of Dextro energy tablets
2 Kendall’s mint-cake
1 chocolate bar
3 tea-bags
50 micropur water-purifying tabs
1 BCB water-purifying straw
6 coffee filters
5 zip-locks (2x quart, 3x gallon)
1 HD garbage-bag
1 HD aluminium foil
1 fishing-kit
100m fishing-line
1 float for fishing-kit
50m waxed dental-floss
10m. Paracord
3m. Paracord
1m. Duct-tape (think I need more)
1 Flexible-saw
3m. Brass-wire
10 zip-tyes
1 carabiner-hook
1 small pouch:
- 1 small tube super-glue
- 4 nails
- 6 safety-pins
- 6 paper-clips
- 3 blanket-pins
- 50m. sewing thread
- 2 medium sewing needles
- 1 XL sewing needle
- 8 buttons
- 3 utility knife blades

1 Coghlan’s signalling mirror
1 Coghlan’s 4-1 Whistle
1 pencil
1 waterproof note-book
1 roll orange trail-tape
1 magnifying-glass
1 base-plate compass
1 map of local area

I add 2 more canteens if I go hiking and sometimes I also fill my hydration bladder. Food,fuel and clothing are added if I need it. The food listed, is a sort of 24-h emergency ration, as is the 1 militairy canteen.

I have a redundency survival pouch and a Leatherman-wave on the belt, as well as my EDC.

Unfortunately, no pics yet.

Thanks

- First what kind of hiking pack, it's a bit overkill for one day, to little on clothing, sleeping bag, etc for overnighters.
- you have ORS listed twice
- You got antibiotic ointment pack, betadine, alcohol swaps and betadine pads ?
- You really need two sets of batteries for you headlight? It should work a full week easily on one set alone. (one extra is gooed, but twice?)
- whats with all the light sticks?
- campheat and a esbit stove?
- Looking at you cooking power and kit and the coups and tea, are you sure? Not going to work without a windscreen and something beter dan a army cup or mess tin. Or be very patient...
- 10 meter paracord, 3 meter paracord?
- You got safetypins in FAK already, you really need them in you pounch too?
- Ever lost 8 buttons at one time?
- A leatherman on you belt, will be very uncomfortable to carry, if you use the hip straps. Considering the load, i would use the hip straps...



- something very basic and usefull. A spair fleece or similair to keep you warm. One of the first thing to grab.

JIM, this is a kit that I carry its weight is 6.5lbs. Take a look.





JIM I also dress for the weather and where a filson hat and gloves. Well take care and I hooe this helps you.

Bryan

HELLO..
where do you plan on hikeing?..i don't much about Europe
but i would think that in the Netherlands you would never
be far enought from help to need all that gear..
you do seem to have some overlaping gear..opinel knife..
trangle bandage and some i wonder why you would need..syringe
and saline..vaseline..and some that don't work very well..the
waterpurifying straw..but in the long run those are all small
items--yes..more duct tape..and i would take a real stove of
some type..a brunton gaz or primus type burner..
but it looks like you have the right idea..

As was in my post, it's a Karrimor Sabre 30l backpack and food/clothing is added as I need to. I'm not planning on spending the night, so no sleeping bag, allthough I do have a heatsheet-bivvy, poncho,hammock and hd- space-blanket to make a shelter.



That's right, 2 sachets in the food-kit, 2 in the FAK.



I have my FAK in a pouch that fits nicely in the backpack, so why not, allthough it's a little redundant.



Listed this wrong: 1 headlamp with batteries and a extra set.



3 of everything (in a triangle ) is the emergency signal, so I can still make only 2 signals with my light-sticks.



Will remove camp-heat.



That's what the hd Aluminium foil is for... And under normal contitions, I won't be cooking anyway. Know it sounds strange..



Actually, it's 30m. paracord. I don't want to cut up my 30m. piece if I only need 1meter, so that's when I use the 3m. piece.



They take up no space at all, and prevent turning on the illuminated tweezers in the FAK.



Once again, they take up no space what so ever.



I don't like the hip-straps and never use them, if I did, you would be right.

Thank you for your suggestions!

I like it, nice kit!

I also use his kit for practice, that it gives me a chance to test all the gear out.
Syringe and saline is used for flushing out wounds.
Vaseline is multi-purpose, lip balm, tinder, FA.
Why no triangulair bandage?

My _personal_ opinion is that you don't need all of the redundancy. There are a few things I don't think you really need. There are a couple of things I think could be replaced with better alternatives. I'm not sure I can follow the whole thing, but here are a few examples:

base plate compass and magnifying glass - you can get a compass with a magnifying glass built in. (redundancy)

orange trail tape (not needed)

Coghlan's 4-in-1 whistle - (better alternatives). You don't need the little doo-dads on the whistle. You already have the full-size stuff. I'd get a Fox 40 or, if you have an REI near by, get one of their little tube-shaped whistles. They are normally by the key chains.

Utility knife blades - (not needed)

blanket pins and safety pins - (redundant). Choose 1.

nails (not needed)

super glue (not needed)

8 buttons (don't need that many)

paper clips (not needed)

zip ties (not needed)

brass wire (not needed)

flexible saw (redundant) - you already have a folding saw

aluminum foil and garbage bag - (not needed)

hammock - (not needed)

Coghlan's space blanket - (better alternatives). The AMK 2-person blanket is a much better choice. It doesn't sound like you are wrapped in aluminum foil, it has a softer feel to it, it drapes around your body more easily, and it is bigger so you get better coverage.

Light sticks (not needed)

hand warmers (not needed)

fire starting stuff - you have three ways to start a fire, plus a stove and fuel tabs. (redundancy)

First aid kit - overkill. You can get by with a lot less. You need enough to get by, not enough to run the emergency ward at the hospital.

insect repellent and headnet - (redundant)

four knives - (redundant) One good knife is enough. If you really feel like you need two, okay. But I'd definitely get rid of the leatherman and the opinel.

Okay, I'm fading here. I think what I'll do is go get a cup of coffee and come back and just delete the stuff from your original list that I don't think you need an post that.

To be honest, your list looks like a compilation of a bunch of stuff you've seen suggested but which you've never actually carried. I think it will trim itself down naturally when you start using it.

And I have this nagging feeling in the back of my mind that I've come across as a bit of a jerk in various spots in this post. My apologies if I have.

I have now replaced the magnefying glass with a compass/magnefyer combo.

Why no: trail tape, superglue, brass wire, hd aluminium foil, hand-warmers, lightsticks?



I believe that fire-starting is one of those things that needs a triple-redundantcy system.

I carry both the insect-repellant and headnet because of the other functions of the headnet.

I'll keep the 'overkill' FAK. That's just my little piece of insurance (??)

I agree on the knifes. I kow carry the mora in the backpack, but still the leatherman on the belt, also because that is EDC.'

Thank you for all your suggestions, I appreciate it.

Okay, here's another try. Gotta little caffeine in me. Read the other posts. The fact that you are carrying a 30L pack sank in. Here we go.

30L pack for day hiking? That's the first thing I'd change. When you have that much space, it's easy to toss in extra gear just because you can. In fact, I see in one of your responses a couple of mentions of "they don't take up much space." My approach is more one of "do I need it" than one of "do I have room for it." I think that a day pack is normally more than enough for day hiking. I'm currently using a fanny pack and don't feel like I need any more.

Anyway, here's the maximum that I'd leave on your original list:

1 Mora-knife
1 folding Saw
1 Sharpening-stone (v-shaped)

1 pair of gloves
1 sun-hat (or ski-hat, depending on season)
1 bandanna
1 small bottle of sunscreen
1 small bottle of insect-repellent (50% DEET)
1 pocket-size tin of Vaseline
5 desinfectant-wipes
1 bandanna

- 1 hemocut
- 1 pair of illuminated tweezers
- 1 click-away
- 1 triangulair bandage
- 18ml. desinfect-lotion (similar to Purrell)
- 2m medical-tape
- 4 Immodium
- 7 antihistamine
- 9 Ibuprofen
- 6 gauze pads 1/16
- 2 ampules of saline
- 2 pair nitrile gloves
- 1 assortment bandages (small,large,waterproof,fingertip,etc.)
- 6 alcohol-prep-pads)
- 6 Povidone-Iodine prep-pads
- 3 antibiotic-ointment packs.

1 LED-headlamp + 2 sets of extra batteries
1 photon-microlight
1 BIC-lighter
1 Fire-Steel Scout
5 Coghlan’s Emergency-Tinder and some cotton wool (the cotton wool will work better if it is impregnated with vaseline)
2 small candles
1 Esbit-stove with extra fuel-tabs

1 Coghlan’s heavy-duty space-blanket (replace with AMK 2-person)
1 AMK Heatsheet Emergency Bivvy
1 poncho

1 1l militairy canteen
1 cup for canteen
1 Platypus 1l. water-bag (unfilled)
1 Spork
1 Vitamin C-drink powder 100gr. (2 l.)
2 O.R.S.
5 sweets
1 Cup a Soup chicken
1 energy-bars
1 roll of Dextro energy tablets
2 Kendall’s mint-cake
1 chocolate bar
3 tea-bags
8 micropur water-purifying tabs
1 BCB water-purifying straw
2 coffee filters
2 zip-locks (1x quart, 1x gallon)
1 fishing-kit
1 float for fishing-kit
10m. Paracord
1m. Duct-tape - 50m. sewing thread
2 medium sewing needles
2 buttons (reduce number)

1 Coghlan’s signalling mirror
1 Coghlan’s 4-1 Whistle
1 base-plate compass (get one with magnifying glass)
1 map of local area

(redundancy kit not needed)

Hey JIM,

The kit you presented sounds very good if you plan on staying several nights in the back country.

When I am backpacking, I bring the following. On my last hike to the top of Mt. Whitney, backpack was around 55-60 lbs, initially. It got lighter and lighter as I ate my way through it.

Clothes
1 poly t-shirt + one that I am wearing
wearing cargo pants
1 pair of liner and hiking socks + 1 of each that I am wearing
underwear
fleece
rain/wind shell
+/- more layers and hat if its cold
bandana
hiking boots

Major stuff:
North Face Backpack
Hiking poles (Black Diamond)
North Face 2 person tent
REI inflatable pad
North Face sleeping bag (for appropriate temp)

Gear
Leatherman Wave
Fixed Griptilian Combo edge
First aid kit, similar to Weekender by Adventure Medical, but supplemented with extra bandaids and drugs
Resque Howler whistle
4AA Underwater Kinetics eLED flashlight
Inova microlight
matches + paper for tinder or notes
Heathseets Emergency blanket
lightstick
Fold flat duct tape (Coghlans)
small sewing kit
50 feet of paracord

Hygene:
2 oz bottle of Purell sanitizer
Fresh Bath wipes
toothbursh/toothpaste, travel size
sunblock
Chapstic
toilet paper

Food and water:
MRE entrees 3-5/day
crackers to use as side dishes
Nectar Cliff Bars http://www.clifbar.com/eat/eat.cfm?location=nectar These are really fresh tasting compared to other once!
Hiker water filter by Katadyn
Micropur MP1 water purification tabs
Camelback 3 liter bladder (fits in a pocket inside backpack)
coffe, tea, sugar
mess kit
dry Gatorade/ liquid GU
penut butter and jelly packets

Misc:
Sunglasses
MSR stove
Vectran bear canister, if needed http://www.ursack.com/home.htm
insect repellent
camera
Diamox tablets (I wish I had them)

what is the saline for? I'm never a fan of carrying liquids if a surrogate can be found.



what are these items???

- a brush away is some kind of teeth cleaning product, that slips over you finger...
- A click away is to threath insect stings, some kind of piezo ignitor thing... Doesn't for me...
- ORS is Oral rehydration salts.

The sterile saline is for flushing out wounds.

Brush-away's: sort of toothbrush that slides over your finger.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v467/jonchoo/OralB04.jpg

Click-away: gives small electric shock that relieves pain ater insect-bite

ORS/O.R.S.: oral rehydration salts: can be added to water to replace salt and minerals in the body

JIM..
i was thinking that the only use---i can think of---
for a triangulair bandage is a arm sling and the bandanna
could fill in for that..but i was just throwing out ideas
on what to throw out..

My own experience with light-sticks got me to remove all of them from my kits !
* if you try one you just bought, it works pretty well. But most of the time I wanted to use one after a few months stashed in the car kit or in the backpack, they were dead (even when not time-expired, wrapping not punctured, etc.. ...)
* they are not emergency locators ! A light stick, except on a pitch black night, won't be seen from some distance. Your best chance is to attached one light stick to a yard of cord and make it turn above your head. I can't see you doing this with three sticks at the same time...

I prefer to use flashlights and/or flashers, with extra-batteries : batteries also tend to die on you when you need them. Use lithium !

Jim, you keep defending items on thier volumes, but you origionally asked how to drop the mass.

I would probably loose the saline and irrigate with potable water, but you also have (no offense) a FAK fetish. :P I saw you were going to take the opinel and keep the mora; I'd do it the other way, but that's just me.

I think the biggest thing is, this kit needs to decide what it is. Is it a mini-BOB? Is it an oversized PSK? Is it an overnight camping pack? It could be all of these, but it doesn't feel like it is any of them yet. If a mini-BOB, I'd be expecting to see rain gear and thermal layers. If an overnighter, more in the way of shelter. And if a oversized PSK, your FAK is big bordering on paranoid- again, no offense intended, but it is possible to be TOO prepared. And based on what you've told us about your area, I would try to turn this more into a mini-BOB. And if the pack doesn't fit, you need a new pack- don't get wedded to BOB's skin.

About the 30 liters pack ...

Yes, a fanny pack could be large enough for a day hike
(except waterwise ...) for emergency/survival supplies.
But for "normal" gear ??

Why do I also use a 30l pack for "day" hikes ?
What kind of problem do I prepare for ?

Living - and hiking - in France, I don't fear to get lost for such a long time that I will need to fish to feed myself ! No cast-away scenario here.. So no real need for a fishing kit, even if very small...
And FAK-wise, I don't plan to practice surgery on myself in the boonies ...

But what if I simply - and yes, stupidly - fall in that little brook ? I won't drown but I'll be soaked to the bones..
And if weather changes and temperature drops unexpectedly ?
Well, sure I'll be able to make a shelter, to build fire and so on ...
Or I can just take, out of that 30l pack, extra clothes and change into these, or (if not soaked) add them as extra layers..
(BTW, good list, RedFlare .. )

What if any problem arises (let's say a wrong turn and I get lost just enough for not being able to go on before night) and the day hike becomes a "day + night" hike..?
The headlight may help, or it might be better to stay put for the night.
Then I'll be happy to have that extra water bottle under my hand : I start a "day hike" with over 4 liters of water, at least 1 liter being in a sturdy metall container. That liter is generally still untouched when I come home. It's there just in case... Just like aviation pilots are supposed to touch down at the end of their planned flight with enough gas for an extra hour.
And I will appreciate the shelter's option provided by the emergency bivvy, heatsheets blankets, poncho and so on..

So, yes, I have a mini-FAK, and a (DR's) PSK + other emergency supplies .... in case of emergency.
But I mostly prepare for "normal", everyday situations, which could occured during that day hike.

Being prepared for the unexpected, doesn't prevent to prepare for the expected (or is "expectable" more appropriate ?) !


Sure, Jim, there are a lot of things you can ditch in your list, IMHO, except if they are there so you can practise with them, in the field. But then, I would rotate gear, to test a different set each time, not take them all along.
What is really missing, again IMHO, as others have pointed, is extra clothes.
On a day hike, you will -hopefully- rarely need saline, but a woolen sweater to pull over your light Tshirt might be more usefull, more often.


Alain ______________

P.S. :
about the fall-in-the-brook scenario, if I DO drown indeed, well, I guess no amount of gear will do me anygood anyway ..

Why?

The tasks of this kit:

- Providing supplies and tools during the hike. (water,sunscreen for example)
- Take care of injuries to me or other people I walk with/might encounter.
- Function as a overnight/survival-kit in a emergency.
- Support of the family-BOB.

As said: this is the basic kit. Food,water and appropriate clothing are added if I have to.

I think there's something I should have told you before: The FAK isn't a personal FAK. It's also used for other members of my hiking-group, or in case of a bug-out, for my family(no FAK in BOB). That's probably why you think it's to large? Although the kit really doesn't take much room.About the same as the 'AMK-Sportsman.'

Frenchy, Maybe I should remove the lightsticks nd add a singe krill-light?

Thank you all for your imput!

If you use Krill lights, remember they are just markers. You get enough light to navigate in a dark room, during an electricity outage. Or you can read a book, if you hold the light very close.
That's about it. Not an emergency beacon, for sure !

+ do not keep them with the batteries inside them. I recently discovered that many of my Krill lights (in my car kit) are unusable, because the weight of the batteries inside the tube, alongside with travel vibrations, distorded the spring, so that the electrical contact is no longer good....

If you need something specifically for signalling, there are small (and light) flashers, like these ones, for instance: pelican mini flasher . Get three.

New, modified kit:


Hiking kit:

1 Mora-knife
1 folding Saw
1 Sharpening-stone (v-shaped)

1 pair of gloves
1 sun-hat (or ski-hat, depending on season)
1 small bottle of sunscreen
1 small bottle of insect-repellent (50% DEET)
1 pocket-size tin of Vaseline
1 ‘Sea to summit’ towel
25 desinfectant-wipes (one package)
1 pair nitrile gloves (for non-first-aid uses)
1 pair of spare socks
1 fleece vest

1 Large FAK:

- 1 hemocut
- 1 pair of illuminated tweezers
- 1 scalpel-blade
- 1 pair of tick-tweezers
- 1 click-away
- 1m duct-tape
- 1 triangulair bandage
- 1 quick-dressing no2.
- 6 safety-pins
- 18ml. desinfect-lotion (similar to Purrell)
- 2m medical-tape
- 1 gauze-roll medium.
- 2 ORS
- 10 Acethaminophen
- 10 Asperin
- 4 Immodium
- 7 antihistamine
- 6 glucose-tabs
- 4 Ibuprofen
- 1 ABD pad
- 2 quick-dressings no1.
- 1 ziplock
- 1 flexible thermometer
- 6 q-tips
- 6 gauze pads 1/16
- 30gr. Betadine ointment (tube)
- 1 syringe and needle
- 2 ampules of saline
- 2 pair nitrile gloves
- 1 assortment bandages (small,large,waterproof,fingertip,etc.)
- 6 alcohol-prep-pads)
- 6 Povidone-Iodine prep-pads
- 3 antibiotic-ointment packs.

1 LED-headlamp + 1 set of extra batteries
1 photon-microlight
1 BIC-lighter
25 Coghlan’s Wind/Waterproof matches + striker strip in 35mm film canister
15 Coghlan’s Emergency-Tinder and some cotton wool
2 small candles
1 Esbit-stove with extra fuel-tabs
1 windshield
4 disposable hand-warmers

1 AMK Heatsheet Emergency Bivvy
1 poncho

1 1l militairy canteen
1 cup for canteen
1 mess-tin
1 Spork
2 O.R.S.
1 chocolate bar
1 pack of biscuits 450 Kcal
2 tea-bags
50 micropur water-purifying tabs
6 coffee filters
3 zip-locks (2x quart, 1x gallon)
15m. Paracord
1m. Duct-tape (think I need more)
3m. Brass-wire
1 carabiner-hook
1 small pouch:
- 1 small tube super-glue
- 4 safety-pins
- 3 blanket-pins
- 50m. sewing thread
- 2 medium sewing needles
- 1 XL sewing needle
- 2 buttons
- 1 utility knife blade

1 Coghlan’s signalling mirror
1 Coghlan’s 4-1 Whistle
1 pencil
1 waterproof note-book
1 base-plate compass
1 map of local area

JIM how much does your kit weight now?

Thanks JIM,
Bryan

I couldn't believe my eyes when I weight it: roughly 7kg/15 Lbs (without food and water;exept 1 liter emergency water)!
That's like the lightest kit I own exept PSK and EDC!!

I'dd better put a brick in the bottom to prevent it beeing blown away!

But seriously: I now have enough spare room in my backpack for food and clothing and narrowed the kit down, wich was my original goal.
Thank you all for your suggestions.(pics will follow)

...7 kg's for a daypack, without food and water, eh. Well don't tell that to ultralite backpackers, they will faith...

Looks good.

And the reason for choosing the Opinel over the Mora is that it is a little smaller (still thinking cubes, not humps, right? :P ), and I just like the way they feel compared to the Mora's that I've handled.

Bryan:

I'd really appreciate it if you'd elaborate a little on your kit. What are the container pouches? How are the strung together? Can you list the items in text?

Looks like something I'd like to swipe!

Bear

Looks great, just get a storm whistle and a better signal mirror.