One thing that packers have always been big on is saving weight but I am I the only one who feels that this latest craze of backingpacking, going "ultra-light", is quickly becomming a bad idea?

At first I was all for it, because the people who were doing it were experienced hikers. They knew the risks; leave out the tent go with a poncho or tarp, leave out the extra warm clothes and deal with a little cold, extra food is nice but leaving out a few meals saves weight, etc, etc, pros/cons, risk involved, is it worth it? They had the knowledge and skill to know just what they could leave behind or scale back on and still not expose themselves to unnecessary risks.

But now it seems to me that its becoming a craze and everyone is doing it. And that bothers me. It bothers me because people who can't afford to leave certain life saving gear (because quite frankly they lack the skills and experience) and people who just don't know what they are getting in to are leaving gear that could save their lives behind just so they can travel a few pounds lighter. I few months ago I read in Backpacker about a hiker on the PCT, who was an ultralighter, that didn't make it when a storm hit. The last people to see him alive were two other hikers on the trail who packed heavy. They made it he didn't. All kept thinking about while reading it was "What the hell was this guy doing there in the first place?"; his lack of perparation and gear all in the name of traveling light cost him his life needlessly. He could have just road out the storm like the other hikers if he had just packed a litle heavier. Was leaving warm gear like gloves behind, using your socks as mittens instead, really worth your life? The other hikers had crampons, that should have set up big warning flags right there. "Hey moron! The Experienced people are using crampons! That means snow and ice, where there's snow and ice there's bad weather and cold!!" But no our ultra lighter was there in his boots and socks for gloves right before the storm hit.

Are my concerns justified or am I just getting paraniod in my old age? What is your guys take on this?

Second to all of you involved in the rescue fields, I would esp like to hear your take on this from a SAR view point. Are ultra-lighters getting themselves in to more trouble compard to the "old school" heavy packers or is it about the same?

Thanks,
Meline

Your concerns are very justified. Unfortunately, it seems to be the mindset in many areas, not just hiking/climbing. I've seen guys with no more training than a weekend class, ride out of a Harley dealer on $18K worth of steel and if they're lucky, they only drop it at the first stop light and not wrap it and them around a tree.

Too much immediate gratification. People don't want to learn, and they don't want to stop and enjoy. They just want to get it done so they can get on to the next fad that their not equipped (mentally or physically) for.

When I was a kid... <img src="/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Malpaso,

Ain't that the American Way? Instant gratification driven by a lack of self-discipline and/or personal responsibility.

Here's to Me First and the Gimme Gimme's.


M

Feeling a little surly today.

Well, I am not ULTRA light, but I do like lightweight. After 12 years in the infantry, anything under 60 lbs is "light".
That being said, I STILL carry enough to get me through. I can pare my pack weight to about 20 lbs, with food, no water. With a full camelback, maybe another 4 lbs. Thats pretty darn good.
Now, I always have a tent, a 20° down bag, a fleece jacket, wet weather gear, a hat, stove, an all the accoutrements. I just buy the lightest I can.
Our SAR here consists mostly of finding alzheimers patients and folks who had no real right being out in the first place. People going camping in winter with a jean jacket and a 12 pack type of no business. So, ultralight doesnt really play a part in it, unless you count what we carry. But, then againm we KNOW where we are, and have others with us. So, we can afford to go super-ultra-light.

I believe there is a difference between going ultra-light and being ultra-dumb. I found that, when I started camping and hiking, I carried everything but the kitchen sink. After a while I started getting lighter and lighter. Not as light as some of the guys who do a month of camping with just a daypack, but I know what gear I use, what gear I don’t/didn't ever use (and therefore could get rid of), what gear I could make lighter or more compact, and what gear I wouldn't change. Because of that experience I can get my stuff down to the basics and better adjust (a head of time) for what I plan on encountering while on my trip.

I think the problem is, a lot of these guys just look at someone else’s list of ultra light gear, assemble a similar pack, and then go out and plan on being ok because they pack the same gear an "expert" does. Fact is, if I handed someone with little to no experience my gear and told them to go out for a week I doubt they would do very well. All the gear in the world wont save you if you can't use it to the fullest. I think the best way to learn is start carrying as much stuff as you can handle that will ensure comfort and safety, then over time (with experience garnered in a relatively controlled setting) adjust what gear is carried.

Now, I do think we have all done stupid things or tried to go out with a little less gear than may have been required (or just forgotten something important). It’s part of learning. However, when I adjust my gear I always test it out in a controlled setting (where I can reach my backup gear) first before I plan on doing something heavy duty.

I did the same thing you did, when I first started hiking and packing I carried ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. Sure itwas heavy and slowed me down but I was perpared for anything. Then over time I began to whittle my gear down based on my experience lightening my load.

You said there's a difference between ultra light and ultra dumb. I agree with that but only because I know based on where I pack where that point is. When I go to parts of the country I'm not familiar with the gear list increases because I no longer am sure where that point between ultralight and ultradumb is for that area.

The problem I see is no one is saying anything like that, its all cut this and leave that. To me we are setting new packers up for failure.

Could be. It is hard to be universally contextual and not the subject of maximum verbosity.

I find that the more familiar I am with an area, the less I seem to need to get by. Generally my hunting grounds of yore are a place where I can find water, navigate by reckoning and a good compass, and know how to make good use of the available materials. I also have a feel for the weather, both what to expect at any given time, and what the extremes are.

A lot of ultralighters are suffering from the backpacker's equivelent of anorexia. They aren't in the right mindset. These are the guys you are talking about, and sane, safe ultralighters would mock them.

There IS ultralight winter gear. It's expensive, and I personally don't think it is up to severe cold, it isn't horrible. My only grumble is that a lot of ultralight gear doesn't strike me as being as physically robust, but that is becuase it is designed for the trail, not for true cross country. I generally assume that I'm going to have hump my BOB through two miles of brambles and young brush becuase it saves four miles of road hiking, and/or I'll be tossing it and the back of me from the back of a pickup at some point.

That being said, I wish more people used 500D Cordura- 90% the strength and 60% the weight of 100D. And that is just one example. Aluminum and titanium rather than steel. Plastic, rather than glass. Carry one lexan spoon and one lexan fork. Lithium rather than alkaline batteries. There are always things to learn from ultralighters.

every generation seems to go thru a learning process
the hard way..in the 80's Spirulina was touted as the
light weight wonder food for the sneakers and swim
suit crowd who were bent on jogging thru the trails with
whatever they could carry in a fanny pack...
there is a reason the "old school" people are old and
still around..the old way of doing basic things keeps you
alive....Spirulina was a wash out it seems that power bars
came along about then..

Paul810,

I think you hit the nail on the head. I organize a group of about 730 backpackers and with myself and all the organizers we are out 3 to 4 times a week. Exactly what you said. Ultra light is great if you have the experience and take just what you need.

On a side note it is a continuing education to watch what some people bring on hiking trips....just for fun:

Multipe paprebacks for pleaseur reading that no one ever reads for lack of time. Makeup and lots of it. Four person tents for 1 person. Walmart flanal sleeping bags. 2 burner coleman stoves with an extra canaster of gas. Colapsable buckets. A hatchet, Axe, Machete, hunting knife, pocket knife, multi tool all at the same time.

I hate to say it but we have been in crunches before where weather turns really bad and we have split up other peoples loads just to speed up getting out of the woods. This is really the wrong thing to do prefrably let them hump it out and learn to pack lighter next time.

Ok I am just venting now.

Bottom line I agree completely with Paul810

I left the service with arctic survival school training. I entered university and my early outdoor field trips reflected an ultrapoor philosophy. We went to Anza-Boreggo and I nearly froze in a cheap sleeping bag. My next G.I. check came and I headed for the local ski shop. Sapphire blue and red were the hot colours. My salesman, and ultimately good friend had a single, puke green ARCTIC rated down bag he couldn't sell. I got it for 20% less than the 3 season bags. I sewed a canvas overbag that predated bivy sacks. Everybody laughed at my huge bag. Our next trip to Anza was met with a rare snowfall. 4 guys piled into a VW bug and slept sitting upright. I slept through it all and woke up with a desert mouse as companion. My latest sleeping system is universally condemned as too heavy and bulky compared to the industry average. My only regeret is not buying the prohibitively expensive german dachstein mountaineering sweater for the then high price of $120. I took my salesman up on another deal and bought a first generation Goretex anorak- and my last any generation goretex <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Some items can be rationally reduced in wieght. But until they sell dehydrated water I just remind myself what the NWMP demanded Klondikers haul up the Chilcooot Pass <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />.

I have been involved with several searches and recoveries. What I have found that most of the people that should know better don't prepare at all or they under estimate nature. So I guess the ones that should know better are the ultimate "Ultralighters" they just don't know they are an "Ultralighter" One mission I recall; a winter canoer(38 year old male) with a preteen child on a 10 mile trip. Brought food to eat on the way and beverages, and dressed for cold in their cotton jeans, athletic shoes, and several cotton sweat shirts. They were warm enough to sweat when paddling, got cold when they stopped and then really got cold when they got wet in the river. This was in February air temps at about 16 degrees and a considerable wind chill.

In any event I try to reduce weight as much as possible myself, but you have to know your limitations, know your gear, and know nature. I am getting old too, so I will work a little harder carrying more load for my comfort.

As for the ones that go unprepared...........you just can't cure stupid. Besides it is easier to blame someone, something, or the system.