<< unlike some others here, I like the alice >><br><br>Brad, et al:<br><br>As one of the "ALICE haters" <grin>... My extreme dislike of the frame colors my comments about the ALICE system. As circumstances would have it, I always had the large ALICE, although I own a medium and occasionally use it (modified) sans-frame. A large ALICE ruck (modified) has ridden many years on a Freighter frame on my back as well, although it is not my first choice in most circumstances.<br><br>There are a lot of things that I like about much of the system. The simple quick-release on the shoulder straps is very good. In general I prefer the no-zipper construction like the ALICE, and the original issue inclusion of variously-sized waterproof bags was a real boon. There are some things a person can do to "improve" the ALICE rucks, but in the past I became convinced that tinkering with the frame was a waste of time. I now have tooling/fabrication capabilities far beyond what I had several years ago, and if I had time, I might take another look at that.<br><br>The rucks are very durable and fairly versitile with a number of user-friendly features. Attachment points for other ALICE-type gear is a really under-rated and unappreciated good point IMO. The large ALICE ruck, IMHO, can easily be overloaded to a point that adversely affects one's balance - not a pre-ordained outcome, but these take extra care in distributing heavy cargo. <br><br>The frame... shoulder straps are good. The original belt-backband slightly impeded my stride and the back band broke with alarming regularity and quite painful consequences. The later-model integrated belt-backband greatly impeded my stride. The geometry, cantilevered off the back to reduce heat rash in SE Asia, is an intrisic feature that I just will not accept for any significant distance/load. The geometry exacerbates the front-to-back depth of the pack. It's impossible to get that kind of volume without raising or widening the pack - increasing the front-to-back depth was the only way. Misguided; US soldiers have carried far too much gear since and including WWII. Soldiering is not a backpacking sport... but I digress.<br><br>If a person can obtain a surplus ALICE setup in good condition with all the components at a low cost, I believe that they have a very high value as BoB packs. They're also great values for short trips and moderate loads. Of course it is possible to use them for extended trips and/or heavy loads - I attest to that. But I have better gear for those uses... and of course, that better gear costs more and I freely admit that it lacks a few features that I like about ALICE gear. I'll NEVER miss those ALICE frames, though!<br><br>Hopefully my last post about un-modified ALICE gear <grin>!<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom<br><br><br><br>