<< unlike some others here, I like the alice >><br><br>Brad, et al:<br><br>As one of the "ALICE haters" <grin>... My extreme dislike of the frame colors my comments about the ALICE system. As circumstances would have it, I always had the large ALICE, although I own a medium and occasionally use it (modified) sans-frame. A large ALICE ruck (modified) has ridden many years on a Freighter frame on my back as well, although it is not my first choice in most circumstances.<br><br>There are a lot of things that I like about much of the system. The simple quick-release on the shoulder straps is very good. In general I prefer the no-zipper construction like the ALICE, and the original issue inclusion of variously-sized waterproof bags was a real boon. There are some things a person can do to "improve" the ALICE rucks, but in the past I became convinced that tinkering with the frame was a waste of time. I now have tooling/fabrication capabilities far beyond what I had several years ago, and if I had time, I might take another look at that.<br><br>The rucks are very durable and fairly versitile with a number of user-friendly features. Attachment points for other ALICE-type gear is a really under-rated and unappreciated good point IMO. The large ALICE ruck, IMHO, can easily be overloaded to a point that adversely affects one's balance - not a pre-ordained outcome, but these take extra care in distributing heavy cargo. <br><br>The frame... shoulder straps are good. The original belt-backband slightly impeded my stride and the back band broke with alarming regularity and quite painful consequences. The later-model integrated belt-backband greatly impeded my stride. The geometry, cantilevered off the back to reduce heat rash in SE Asia, is an intrisic feature that I just will not accept for any significant distance/load. The geometry exacerbates the front-to-back depth of the pack. It's impossible to get that kind of volume without raising or widening the pack - increasing the front-to-back depth was the only way. Misguided; US soldiers have carried far too much gear since and including WWII. Soldiering is not a backpacking sport... but I digress.<br><br>If a person can obtain a surplus ALICE setup in good condition with all the components at a low cost, I believe that they have a very high value as BoB packs. They're also great values for short trips and moderate loads. Of course it is possible to use them for extended trips and/or heavy loads - I attest to that. But I have better gear for those uses... and of course, that better gear costs more and I freely admit that it lacks a few features that I like about ALICE gear. I'll NEVER miss those ALICE frames, though!<br><br>Hopefully my last post about un-modified ALICE gear <grin>!<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom<br><br><br><br>

I'm certain that you have put more mileage on the alice than I. I work within a budget and the alice fits my frame somewhat better than you I would suspect. The belt has never been an impedance to my stride and I have made use of the area in the small of the back to hold a 4 liter platypus quite snugly. I do not overload the pack and that may have something to do with my apreciation of it. I haven't made much use of the ability to attach things to the pack other than the gas cans for my MSR stove. They hang between the outer pockets comfortably and don't rattle or swing about. <br><br>I will agree with the problem you mentioned with the depth of the pack front to back. I have been toppled by it on a couple of occasions because the weight is so far out from my body in the back. I found that I could overcome this by packing the wieght higher and thus closer to my center-line. Hanging the bedroll from the bottom of this pack is a disaster since it will be a heavy weight hanging cantilevered about 8 inches out from you butt. With the bedroll on top I find that things work much better - that might be a bit tall with a fully loaded large alice though.<br><br>I am 5'8" 170 pounds and in moderate condition.

Thor,<br>I use an Arcteryx Bora 80 for multi-day trips, and an Arcteryx Bora 40 for day/1 night hikes. Although on the more expensive side, I don't regret spending the money. These packs are well made and comfortable. The Bora 80 is fully adjustible, and comes in three frame/torso sizes to accomodate just about anyone. My suggestion to you would be to visit a few outdoor shops and try out various makes and models. Add 30-40 pounds and walk around the store awhile. Then get whichever one/s feel "right". Hope this helps.

You've worked out the things I would have suggested and the bottom line is you like it because it works for you. Can't go wrong with that!