The question is not out of line, but I think you need to define what you mean by "basic survival techniques", because I don't think they mean the same thing for everyone. For example, I know how to make a bow drill and am familiar with the concept of flint knapping a knife. But I don't practice either one. Why? Because I do not intend to be caught anywhere without multiple blades and firemaking tools on my person. Ever. Please note that I am in no way denigrating those who do. Some people obviously enjoy doing so and I say more power to them. It's just that such activities don't hold the same interest for me.

So what does everyone else consider "basic survival techniques"? I'm thinking navigation with map and compass, debris shelter building, identifying a safe water source, basic first aid, and maybe food procurement. Others?

Fire-starting and signalling

I didn't mean that we should open a thread to cover any and all survival situations. I was only stating that a lot of people in these threads seem to indicate a high dependence on equipment seemingly without much experience using the equipment or basic skills. I don't believe you have to be to the point of using using a bow to start a fire. I mean simply being able to start a fire with a single match or flint and tinder, finding alternate water sources ect.. All the equipment in the world dosen't take the place of knowlage. I love my toys and I have some great equipment that make my survival in emergency situations that much more comfortable. But I know I am able (from experience) that I am able to survive without it.

raydarkhorse,

I think I get what you are saying and agree whole heartedly. Hopefully relevant but maybe more of a rant than anything so I apologize in advance.

I went XC-Skiing a few weeks ago and we opted for the comfort of a rented cabin instead of toughing it out in the snow. More of a social event for the group than anything. Because of the simplicity of the trip and cabin accommodations we had a few book learned outdoors people along in addition to real experienced outdoors people.

We got back to the cabin late so I volunteered to start a fire in the fire place. We had ample cut, split and seasoned wood stacked neatly in the woodshed ready for our use. We had matches, lighters, newspaper…mort than enough stuff to start 100 fires. Pretty much the most ideal situation you will ever come across for starting a fire.

I gathered all of the appropriate items to get this thing started and went to work. I figured just a minute or two and we could all start warming up. Then not 30 seconds into crumpling newspaper for tinder one of the armchair outdoorsmen started advising me that I was doing things wrong and he had never read anything about the way I was going about things. Well usually that’s ok and I would be happy to kindly guide a person through proper fire starting techniques but the attitude I had been getting all day from Mr. know it all had finally gotten to me.

I backed away without a word, handed him the matches and said please show us how it’s done. (he had NEVER started a fire before as I found out later) We all watched him work in vane for about ½ hour before I finally asked if it would be ok if I gave it another shot because we were all getting a little cold.

I started the fire and I am sure I embarrassed him but I guess he did get somewhat of an education.

In retrospect I feel a little bad about it and I should have taken some time to explain a few things to him but boy I’ll tell ya he sure had a high and mighty opinion of himself and his book learning skills the whole day and it did feel a little good to bring him back to reality.

All said I think a few of the people with us learned that just reading about a survival process is a lot different than actually doing something.

End of Rant.

I will try and be more patient in the future but man he was under my skin.

Cameron

Fire starting with matchs and/or lighter, basic first aid, and having a clue about your anticipated enviroment. If it isn't urban, then how to camp (even car camping, BUT NOT WITH AN RV).

If someone has no clue about this stuff, my reaction would be the same if they were to suddenly pop up on an AT or PT forum- why are you here? I can forgive someone who averages about four matches to get a fire lit- that's learning how to use the gear, you have the basic concept. People who hold a bic under a soggy hemlock branch on the other hand.....

Cameron, you perfectly in line. Pain, discomfort and embarresment are excellent teachers. YOu let him get unfomfortable (he was cold, others were annoyed becuase he was making them saty cold) and embarrased (foot-in-mouth syndrome). So he learned he was wrong before things progressed to the "pain" stage, which is usually pass fail.

Did he watch you light the fire, or did he fail to be a student of his errors and your knowledge?

But more to the point of the overall thread, this is a perfect example of why I don't like the idea of very basic techniques here- I can tell you how to build a fire, but if you don't actually make one, then you probably can't. But you think you can.

It's exremely difficult to teach or share "field craft" via the internet. I understand what you are talking about but I don't see how to resolve the issue without turning it in to another "Field and Stream" example of an attempt at teaching field craft gone wrong sort like thier last quiz (Not that I don't like Field and Stream, as I do enjoy F&S its just that field craft that works in the NE desn't always translate to Rocky Mountains and visa-versa).

The way I see it is like this,
1. I can not teach you field craft over the net.
2. I can talk about gear I have used that can help mitigate the field craft learning curve.
3. I think everyone, or at least I hope everyone, understands that NOTHING is as good as hands on time.
4. For somepeople on here, hands on time is impracticle to impossible (I fully realize how lucky I am to have the acess to the outdoors that I do, I've known guys who the closest to woods they have ever been is the Outdoor Network) and the best they can do is go gear heavy to compensate.

This is the kinda thing I'm talking about, I read everything I can about a lot of subjects but reading it isn't the same as doing.

Ironraven,

Can't say if he was paying attention or not. I was agravated and focusing on just getting the fire started. Not to mention 8 pair of eyes boaring a hole in my back waiting for a fire........now that I think of it how embarrassing would It have been if I didn't get that sucker flaming on the first try? <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Cameron

Sometimes letting a person fail, (in a safe environment) is a great way to get the light to go on in their head.

One of the interesting things that happens every year with our boys doing their first Wilderness Survival trip is that they always seem to think it's going to be easier than it is at first. They figure that if us old dad's can go and camp for the weekend with just what's in our pockets and get by, how tough could it be for them? Most of them have a first night that's cold, maybe a little wet, and then they get smarter!

In this case, the adult instructors go through the same scenario as the boys. (Except that we have all used/practiced/worked with that small collection of items in our pockets, and maybe fanny pack, many times before.) When we hike into the site, the adults pick an area, and the boys pick an area. Not far apart, but, enough that they are working independently on their "shelter", fire, etc. After a couple hours, we go see how they are doing. Most of them have something cobbled together. They won't be comfortable, but, they'll live. Then they come visit our camp... the eyes start taking in a much more "comfortable" picture. Then they spend another hour before dark trying to make some "housing upgrades".

Unfortunately, we can no longer teach how to cook snakes, frogs, rabbits, etc. Politically incorrect. <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> We explain how to do it, but, until you actually do it, you just don't get it.

The lasting lessons are ones where you have to actually accomplish something with your own hands. I still remember the old woodsman that taught me to cool off your edible small game in a river, because when you skin it, flees and bugs will tend to leave the cool flesh alone, where they will be all over freshly killed warm exposed meat in a heartbeat. I knew that, because we had caught a rabbit, and skinned it immediately, and then had the flea patrol to deal with. He always cleaned stuff in the river anyway, so as not to attract skunks and raccoons later that night with the remnants.

Another time when I was a boy, a friend's dad showed us how to smoke squirrel meat. He also demonstrated that on a cold weekend, meat you caught Friday that had maggots on it Sunday morning was still ok if you cut off the part the maggots were on. (Then he ate the maggots, and we all had to try to eat them too...protein I guess, he said they are just bug larvae anyway, and like most things, he said they'd taste like chicken...well, they didn't taste like chicken, more like a cross between pungent tasting jello and dirt. Still, now I know that I could eat them and live if I needed to, although I'd need to be pretty hungry.) Where the heck do maggots come from anyway?

After all that, what do we learn? Well, the boys always seem to have a better assortment of gear with them when they camp/hike after the Wilderness Survival course. They know how hard it is to improvise, and so they understand the importance of the right equipment. They know that they could get by without some of it if they are healthy, uninjured, and the conditions are good, but, what if any of those things change?

It's actually fun to do this stuff if you're in the right frame of mind, I'm kinda lucky I get to teach it. I have to say, however, that my wife is never really pleased to see my son and I when we return from one of these adventures...we have to enter thru the garage, none of that "campfire/dirt/guy/baked bean" smell is getting into our house!