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#84328 - 02/08/07 03:57 PM Re: Don't Count on it
capsu78 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/09/07
Posts: 98
Loc: Chicagoland IL
Great write up, bat.
The debrief from those that have been through emergencies is a great reality check for people trying to lay the groundwork for a preparedness plan.
Question on one of your bulletpoints:
I know the value of food that needs little preparation and no cooking. You made a comment that you were suprised so many people were cooking in BBQ pits etc. Is there a drawback to that that I am missing?
In my planning, I figure that if sheltering in place with no power, so long as I don't have gas leaks to contend with, I would forfeit my fridge contents after 6 hours or so. Wouldn't the first storehouse you would tap into would be to start cooking the contents of your freezer? I would think that would be the first food to be eaten.
One thing is certain, I would not focus my gas consumption on running a generator that did little more than attempt to salvage my fridge contents.
_________________________
"The last time I had a "good suprise", I was 5 and it was my birthday"

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#84329 - 02/08/07 04:07 PM Re: Don't Count on it
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
"...I would forfeit my fridge contents after 6 hours or so..."

I think you may be jumping the gun a little there. We live full time in a RV, moving a lot. When we are on the move we turn the propane off to our refer, often for eight hours or more, with no ill effects. Ice cubes in the freezer are still frozen, stuff in the 'fridge is still cold. How long food will last in a 'fridge with the power off is governed, at least to a certain extent, by how often you open the door. Fridge's are well insulated, and will keep food edible for several days, as long as you don't open the door every 15 minutes...
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#84330 - 02/08/07 04:32 PM Re: Don't Count on it
capsu78 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/09/07
Posts: 98
Loc: Chicagoland IL
OldBaldGuy,
Sorry, I said that wrong. At the 6 hr. mark, I will begin thinking about emptying my freezer with my remaining ice and sorting out higher value stuff and transfering to my Igloo cooler, where I can keep things cold for 3 more days, even if I can't get anymore ice.
I would also figure out my menu for the next 24 hours, leaving those things in the fridge.
One of the links I read regarding the upstate NY power outages pointed out many people tried to ride out the outage with food in the fridge, only to lose their food and ruin their refridgerator. Since I just redid our kitchen appliances last year, I will be quicker to get them out of harms way, and not sacrifice them for a couple of gallons of milk and other lower value provisions that I would be uncomfortable keeping even if the power came back on the next day.
Tying this back to the original topic, I can't envision many scenarios where I would be anywhere near breaking into my longer term foods for at least a couple of very well fed days!
All this assumes I have shelter still in place etc. and I have the time to cook..
_________________________
"The last time I had a "good suprise", I was 5 and it was my birthday"

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#84331 - 02/08/07 04:39 PM Re: Don't Count on it
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Makes more sense to me this way. One of the reasons we like to keep a fair amount of frozen meat in the freezer is that, should we ever lose power for a long time (we are talking at our home now, not the RV), those chunks of frozen meat can act as a cooling agent in the ice chest, to help keep the more perishable stuff last a little longer.

I am curios tho, how did people ruin their refridgerators by leaving food in them? Are you talking rotten food odors, or something else???
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OBG

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#84332 - 02/08/07 08:45 PM Re: Don't Count on it
capsu78 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/09/07
Posts: 98
Loc: Chicagoland IL
That was my interpretation- People just left stuff in the fridge maybe when they went off to friends with power and warm showers etc.
I recall the guy from Seattle saying one night without power is "quaint", and then everyday thereafter its all just a PItA.
At the 3 day mark , I figure this would about match my threshold for pain if I could reasonably "evacuate" to a warm shower and someone elses TIVO!
_________________________
"The last time I had a "good suprise", I was 5 and it was my birthday"

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#84333 - 02/09/07 12:28 AM Re: Don't Count on it
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
This brings up an interesting sidetrack. Our society tends to rely on refrigeration for too much. Really, if you think about it, there's not much need for refrigeration if you plan a bit. The things I keep in my refrigerator and freezer are easily converted to canned goods, sacrificing freshness and an insignificant amount of quality in doing so. Veggies and fruits are easily substituted. The only advantage to frozen meat is in grilling or roasting, as most of the meat I cook goes into casseroles, stews, soups sauces or meatloaf. Canned meat is something we eat on a regular enough basis anyways, so the only meat to keep in the freezer then is stuff that goes on the grill or in the roaster. So what's left? Ice? Confections? Eggs or Milk in the fridge? Canned or even powdered milk isn't so bad if it means I don't have to rely on refrigeration so much. I drank gallons of powdered rehydrated milk in Iraq, and it was far better than what they were giving us in the cartons in the cooler. If the slightly off taste bothers you, add a little cocoa or malt or ovaltine or whatever and you'd never notice it. Eggs would be the tough thing to get around I suppose. Powdered eggs and egg substitute just don't quite cut it I reckon. I can make them work in baked goods without too much suffering, but reconstituting them into scramble or omlette is almost not pallatable, and I can tolerate a lot. I wish someone could make a decent, shelf stable egg substitute that also had reduced cholesterol. So far all I can find still comes in a carton and requires refrigeration. Oh, if only we would take to irradiating our food stock.

So anyaways the point of refrigeration is convenience and freshness, and it would be best if we adopted the same attitude as our forefathers and took to canning and preserving a little more anyways. I can get by on spagetti with meat sauce, tuna casserole, chicken ala king, turkey and rice, curried shrimp, shepard's pie and ravioli for a long time. Espeically if I am cooking them up from scratch myself.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#84334 - 02/09/07 12:53 AM Re: Don't Count on it
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
One thing that can be done if you happen to have a large upright or chest type freezer is freeze jugs of water (we usually do half gallon milk jugs, they fit nicely in the ice chests we have). They will function as ice to help keep things cold, and give you some extra water when they finally thaw...
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OBG

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#84335 - 02/09/07 05:11 AM Re: Don't Count on it
bat69 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 78
Loc: Fl, USA
Hi capsu,

I should have clarified the point about cooking with a bbq pit a little better.

During the first 72 hours I totally understood the cooking over an open flame to utilize what had been under refrigeration. That seemed logical. Why let the food in the fridge go to waste? But after 5+ days and beyond it just seemed a HUGE waste of resourses ( fuel, money, and time ) to me.

Why?

Basically after 24 to 48 hours small shops (convienence stores, etc )were beginning to do cash only business even though there was no electricity. Charcoal and lighter fluid were going for top dollar. There were amazingly LOADS of canned goods still on the shelf! And the baffling part was that almost no one was buying any of them at all!! They were snatching up 5 day old bread and unrefrigerated cheese, eggs, and milk ( yes, milk! )like it was mana from heaven. I did see quite a few people buying pasta which was definately better than unrefrigerated dairy products but not by much at all.

Why? well it takes alot of water to boil pasta, and there were warnings not to drink the tap water without treating it with bleach. so essentially these folks were using up their DRINKING water! <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Also consider the amount of fuel needed to boil a gallon of water, its immense..

Now, another thing to consider is that it was pretty warm, and VERY humid outside. Mosquitos were quite active as well. The last thing that seemed like fun was cooking over a fire, slathered with DEET..

As I mentioned above It also seemed to be a waste of resourses. Fires need fuel (wood, charcoal , propane, etc)

One of my Personal Survival Commandments (PSC) is : "Conserve Thy Resources, and squander them not Foolishly, or DOOM ON YOU!!!"

I mean, if that method of cooking is your only option then you have no choice. But these people were using their heads for nothing more than hat racks.

I also consider shelf stable food to be more hygenic by far... I can eat out of a can, tin, or MRE pouch not worrying if its thoroughly cooked and when I'm done I dispose of the package without having to further expend my drinking water for washing dishes, mess kits, or pots and pans. Not to mention that if you aren't thourough in cleaning your mess kit and all utensils you run the very serious risk of Cramping Gut or Runny Butt... Neither of which is very fun under the best of circumstances, let alone in a survival situation..

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victory begins with a mindset...

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#84336 - 02/09/07 05:35 PM Re: Don't Count on it
bassnbear Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 44
Loc: Southeast US
Yeah! Besides, there goes the TP.
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