I recently responded with this message to a thread on fishing and looting stores. I suspect it would be well to make this point again for others benefit.

During the recent midwest ice storms whole sections of the country were without electricity. My wife and I were without both electricity and water (well pump.....) for 8 full days, some are still out. From that experience the point I want to make is this;

Don't even think of counting on stores for anything at all when an emergency strikes. First off, when power fails, Wal-Mart (and all other stores) close up. Second, when they do open, absolutely anything and everything that you might need will disappear with an hour. If looting is going on, it will disappear within minutes.
The things you think of for survival kits are not what you will need first. 5 gallon Water Containers. Who would have thought? 5 gallon gasoline containers, food, animal feed, firewood, propane in small containers. Water. When everyone is out of water, where do you get it? Not just for drinking, In the long run you need to flush your toilets and water your critters. Bottled water at the store was sold out immediately. Those Culligan machines in the front of Wal-Mart stores broke down under the heavy draw (filters clogged up?). Not to mention 2 hour waits for them.
This was not a terrible disaster, Not really even long term survival. I was lucky, living on a small farm I had a pond, woodstove, and friends.

I had all the standard things in my kit. They were not what I needed when time came.

Jon Davis

Those are the reasons that FEMA officials (quitely) began talking about the need for people to be prepared to be on their own for up to 2 weeks after a disaster (2004 Florida hurricanes), instead of the 3 days bandied about in the press.

Glad you came through Ok.

Rotate your stock,

JimJr

All great points, and I don't know for sure how one goes about storing just water for an extended period of time. Our home shares a water well with another place, lose power for any length of time and we are both SOL. We are in the hospital grid, so we get power faster than most, but in the event of something BIG that might not matter.

We always keep a lot of water on hand...I have four five gal water containers, and my wife drinks a lot of storebought juice (the stuff in the large plastic bottles), we wash those out and fill them with water. I leave a little bit of bleach in each bottle, and date them for rotation. We have no critters to worry about, but still, even with our 40 gal water heater full of water, for a total of maybe 100 gals, we can not last indefinately. We do have a hot tub, we can use the water in it for flushing, etc, so that will really help us stretch it out. I guess we could buy some of those blue 55gal water barrels, we have the space to store them, but what about apartment dwellers?

And for sure "looting" won't work unless you are at the head of the looters line...

A whole bunch of 5 gal food grade buckets lined up in your basement or garage...I figure ( roughly) one for each day without city water.

tro

I have 2 of these filled with water in my garage:



I rotate the supply every 6 months and add bleach to keep them drinkable. Due to unforeseen circumstances, I was unable to rotate the water once for over a year. When I did change the water, the old stuff still seemed fresh and clean. I drank a cupfull and didn't suffer any negative consequences.

www.aquaflex.net and www.nitro-pak.com have quite a variety of storage containers for long term water storage. I have been told that some plastics are not that good for water storage because they can begin to degrade, adding chemicals to the water. I don't have any expertise on this though.

I have one advantage living in NYC. I have a sailboat and if the problem is really long term, can sail up the Hudson, though I would have to sail quite a way before it changed from salt to fresh. (That is, assuming I can get to the boat before the looters do.).

Yeah - you'd have to sail NORTH of Albany

Better bet would probably be to get up into the Catskill area, and head into the mountains - Names like Croton, Neversink, Roundout, Pepacton, Ashokan, Schoharie, and Cannonsville should ring LOUD bells - to the tune of 547.5 BILLION gallons of drinkable fresh water

Keeping extra water on hand is a good idea esp. in So. Cal. where almost ALL our water is brought in over the San Andraus fault. We're one quake away from a major disruption in water supplies. I keep 5 barrels of water on hand in addition to supplies of bottled water which we continually rotate.
I also plan to connect the barrels to the rain gutters to replenish should it become necessary.

Good point. Sailing north of Albany in my little weekender would require quite a bit of fresh water on the boat just to get there.

Time to revise Plan B, and buy some more maps.

I suppose it's difficult to anticipate such things as earthquakes and nuclear war but in our case we had warning in the form of weather forcasts. Having Empty containers we would have been able to fill on the spur of the moment, water, gasoline, food, etc. Next time I will take these forcasts a little more seriously. Live and, hopefully, learn.
even apartment dwellers have a tub that can be filled on the spur of the moment.
Jon

I recently did a preparedness spreadsheet which inventoried all of the preparedness items I could think of in my Bug in closet and bug out bag. I have been focusing on solutions for getting water and holding water when I realized the value in figuring out what empty vessels I could easily deploy in an emergency situation with a bit of warning or without.
I now have identified and itemized all larger empty containers- igloo drink cooler, canning pots, 5 gallon buckets etc. I realize that knowing where I will get my water from is only task 1. Staging it in containers that fit the task will be next on the list.
That way I won't have to touch my rotated/bottled water stock first thing, and maybe not for days I thought about what pots I would consider boiling water in. I considered what water I would use for sanitation, for cleaning and save the higher valued water for cooking and drinking.
I did the same thing with my "cooking" options, all the way from a "dutch over over fire", to propane campstove, white gas campstove, charcoal BBQ, sterno and chafing dishes, and even an old "shabu shabu" japanese charcoal cooking pot that could be used in a pinch. Bad news is I have 6 different cooking fuels and systems. Good news is I have 6 different cooking systems. I have randomly been increasing my fuel stockpiles for each.
Sounds like small bottles of propoane are a high demand item, eh?

I was one of the lucky one in MO in that I was just outside the area of lost power in the ice storm, only power blinking a few times. Reading everyones posts about their experiences really got me to seeing how inadequite my preparations were for that ice getting to me.

I also got to thinking about the earthequake threat here in the Midwest and how it would effect me. I researched online sites and found I would be one of the lucky ones in MO, but realized how even though I wouldn't get damage to my house, the effects on life will be huge.

Very few people seem to pay attention or even have a clue how much a large earthquake at New Madrid MO will disrupt thier lives. The destruction of property will only be the tip of the iceberg.

The experts are saying the odds of a large quake hitting in the next 30 years are alarmingly large.

I for one am looking at what I have done to prepare for power outage and or quake and realize I am not prepared in the least.

LasD02,
How do you fill, empty etc? I would like to use this in the summer for recycling my sump pump water and using on my garden.

Your experience brings up some good points. Out here in Brisbane right now the govt is telling new constructors that they should consider including a 5,000 liter reservoir tank for holding rainwater and recycled water. I've seen rural folks that pump wellwater into 10,000 gallon on site containment vessels just in case. I've also noticed how many big water tanks sit atop roofs of buildings in Manhattan.

Self reliance used to be the norm a while back in our country. Then we got urbanized and folks started relying too much on the promises of service providers and govt officials that their basic needs would be provided for and adequate planning was being done to prevent catastrophic loss of service to a community. Yep, reality is a big dog sometimes, come to bite you in the backside.

The next home I acquire will be built to my specs, with an independent water source, power source, long term storage for both, and well fortified. I will put up enough supplies that I can weather such events, and locate in a region which is not such a big risk for calamity, knowing that nothing is 100% immune. I will also maintain adequate and varied transportation capabilities so that if bugging out is necessary, I stand the best chance of doing so.

Not everyone has access to every option, so I guess you do what you can, learn from your experiences, and adjust your priorities accordingly.

The good news is that having spent a portion of my life living on The Hayward Fault in No CA, and having lived through the 89 quake, one of the upsides is that disaster preparedness for earthquakes seems to be better documented and thought through than many other calamities. From bolting down houses to foundations to strapping water heaters, there exists a much better "to do" list than specific preparations for ice storms, power outages etc.
I have learned much more in the last 60 days on this site from the accounts in Seattle and MO regarding these scenarios than any other source.
Getting others to prepare is the same for eathquakes and ice storms... most don't. some do a little and a very few have a decent plan.

How deep is your well? A good water pump should be good in an emergency or just to use occassionally. If you're on a farm, you should have room to build a cistern and store water in the ground outside the well.

Last year I purchased two 30 gallon blue water barrels so as to have a supply of fresh water if the city water became disrupted or contaminated. I purchased two 30 gallon barrels rather than a single 55 gallon barrel because in the past I have found 55 gallon barrals to be to hard to easily move around. So far the two barrels have worked well for me, though I have never actually "needed" them. Two barrels also gives me the potential to store them in different locations (garage and storage shed for instance) making it more likely I could get to at least one if something catastrophic happened. Adding bleach takes care of keeping the water safe. I also "try" to rotate the water every 6 months, but don't always succeed.

In addition to the barrels, I puchased a small self-priming siphon intended to fit into the standard opening on the barrels. However, I found that the pump did not actually fit the opening in the barrel. The opening on the barrel was bigger then the threads on the pump. The pump still works, but is less stable and there is a bigger risk of contamination. I brought this up in case somebody else is going to buy both a pump for use with water barrels. Maybe you can be more careful about finding a combo that fits together correctly. I haven't yet investigated if I can find an adapter at the local hardware store.

I also ended up purchasing a special tool for screwing/unscrewing the hexagonal plug that fits in the bung holes of the barrels. While not a requirement, it sure works well and is much easier for me to use then a crescent or pipe wrench.

Lastly, I am also interested in having some method of collecting rainwater from my homes gutter system. I'm not sure of the best way to do this yet. My downspouts actually go directly into underground drains, rather then ending in a curve where where the water falls on a splashblock. Like most homes, my downspouts are also attached to the house. This makes it virtually impossible to get rainwater into a barrel that is 3ft tall without modifications to the downspouts. I'm thinking I would need to cut my downspout off about 4ft above the ground and then add some sort of hose or spout that could direct the water into my barrel. I guess I would also want some method of directing the water into the existing drains when I am not using the barrel. I also picture some sort of course and fine filters to remove as much solid matter as possible. Up here in the Northwest my gutters fill up with 1 inch long pine needles way faster then I care to clean them out. Every rain storm or wind storm results in a cascade of these pine needles onto my roof where they are washed into my gutters and some percentage then make it down the downspout. Hence the desire for a filter to screen out as much as possible.

Lots more research needed on my part I see.

capsu78,

When filling, I simply run the garden hose into the garage and have a full barrel in about 5 min., emptying on the other hand, is more of a chore. The fastest way is to manhandle the barrel onto its edge and roll it out into the driveway, once in place, I let it fall on its side (they are built to take abuse), and open the plugs to drain. I recently bought one of these:



I'm going to try emptying them next time with drill power!

Does anyone have any experience with in-ground cisterns?

I've toyed with the idea of placing several small (less digging) plastic barrels below ground to store rain water for flushing/garden/etc.

The idea of having a small water garden above it with a overflow pipe that would feed the cistern (help keep sediment out) seems do-able.

Any thoughts from the engineers? (non-engineering input welcome as well)

I live a few miles north of Springfield. Even 3 or 4 days into it some stores & hotels were still losing power.

Lost power for 10 days. Really deep well. The bathtub water worked great for flushing toilets.

My house has drain tiles and a sump pump that collect a couple hundred gallons of runoff that I am constantly, in wet times anyway, pumping out. In the summer growing season I unplug the sump pump and let water collect. Then I pump the water into plastic garbage cans and hand can them onto my garden.
I too would like to move this undergound, or give me a way to pump it on demand. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Here is a source for barrels, siphon pumps, bung wrenches, water treatment, and many more goodies. I have ordered a lot of stuff from them over the years, and have always been satisfied with their service...

"I simply run the garden hose into the garage and have a full barrel in about 5 min., emptying on the other hand, is more of a chore."

I must be missing something here. Why can't you just run the hose to the full barrel, turn on the tap until the hose is full, then unscrew the hose at the tap and let most of the water run out via gravity?

Sue

Before you pay $141 for a water barrel, consider the following:

Grizzly.com H3027 Drum Dolly w/Handle $42.95
US Plastic.com 74101 55 gal Blue Delcon (R) Closed-Head Drum $65.61
usplastic.com 180126 Aluminum drum wrench $13.55

These are the exact sources / part#s I used. I'm happy with them all.

Drum goes on the dolly, I made a little "pocket" for the wrench so it is attached, and also a little pocket from a Ziplock which contains slip of paper in marker with the date filled, how treated, etc. Then, I put a big plastic bag over the top of the whole thing to keep dust off.

Then, I have it lashed to the garage wall and foundation to keep it from moving around in case of an earthquake.

Improvements needed: Pump and hose should be also be attached to the barrel for easy access under the plastic cover.

As one of the previous posters suggested, more than one in different locations would be best.

Personally, I think the best bet would be two get full sets of gear (wrenches, hoses, dollys) and keep them together. No sense trying to figure out where that hose went or where that wrench went IMO. And getting these onto the dollys after they are filled would be quite the endeavor.

-john

EDIT: BTW, that Nitro-Pak Preparedness Center sounds a bit fishy to me. They claim it is so expensive due to shipping. Perhaps. But I paid $30.17 shipping for this drum on 7/17/06 (don't recall the method it came) from USPlastics. They also go on to whine about the cost of plastic. Well, USPlastics still charges the same $65.61 they did on 7/17/06. USPlastics online shipping estimator says shipping will be $31.27, about a dollar more than last order. Draw your own conclusions.

I see them in the Grainger catalog as well.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/itemDetailsRender.shtml?ItemId=1613549043

Wow, great price on the USP barrel, thanks!!!

Here is a way to fill your containers from your downspouts.
There are others just look up downspout diverter or something similar.
http://www.gardenwatersaver.com/

I ran across a very nice looking one the other day but can't seem to find it again, it had full flow diverter and an automatic change back when the container was full.

Wade

John, that's a nice combo with the drum/dolly. Question, having never used one of these big HDPE drums before, is the wrench you also referenced generally necessary to get the plugs loose?

Sue,



That's much too easy...how am I ever going to be able to pull a muscle in my back, run over my big toe with a 300lb. barrel, teach my kids several new swear words and convince myself death by dehydration is preferable by doing it your way? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I use recycled 55 gallon plastic cooking sherry drums. They run around $20. I then make a cradle out of two by fours to hold the drums horizontally. The taller the cradle the larger the container you can fill from the drum. I replace one bung with a 90 degree plastic elbow. One end of the elbow is threaded male which goes into the drum and the female end I thread the bung back in. The drum is on the cradle such that this bung is at the top and the 90 degree elbow faces up. I fill the drum through this bung. The other bung is replaced by an adapter with a 3/4 or 1 inch female threaded hole. Into this hole, I place a 90 degree ball valve faucet. This is the end I take water out of the drum. Gravity empties the drum. No pump or power needed.

I use this method in elk camp. I take two drums in my pickup truck. One is full and one is empty. When camp is setup, I assemble a cradle with an empty drum. I run a hose from the faucet of the full drum in the truck and fill the empty one in the cradle in the tent. Again, gravity does all the work as long as the full drum is higher then the empty drum! This way no one has to man handle a drum full of water.

Pretty cool. I have two or three questions: Where does one get an empty sherry drum, does one get a llittle happy drinking the water from a sherry drum, and is there any sherry taste to the water???

You are so right.

I remember after the Northridge earthquake the same thing happened in our town.

No power so most stores closed. Water was contaminated due to broken sewer/water lines. Lucky we had bottled water at home.

One good thing, we found that the Pizza Man store was open without power, (still had gas), we got a large with everything on it. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Power came back on after a couple of days. Couldn't drink the tap water for weeks until they flushed the system out, but you could use the toilet and take a shower. (If you didn't mind the smell <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />)

All plastics add chemicals to whatever gets stored in them...

The question is how much is too much...some plastics and even some applications differ widely. Also, what you store in them will affect leaching.

That said, we're talking about emergencies...some plastic laching may be preferable to death. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Farm supply stores carry heavy duty plastic 55 gallon drums with a brass faucet already cut into the lower level when it is in a vertical position. They are used to transport water to remote pastures for livestock.
The one I just bought has Greek Script on it and judging by the interior smell it originally contained olives. Top screws on with rubber gasket. How to get rid of olive smell and taste? Beats me, My few critters don't complain. $32.00, not bad, worth checking out.

Jon

Yep. In an emergency the stores are basically looted by the panicked hoarders. Imagine if it were a BIG emergency like a nuclear exchange or pandemic!

There is an interesting article here about maybe the one source of supplies that the panicked masses cannot readily loot. I think he has a point since there has to be a HUGE amount of resources here:
http://www.survivaltopics.com/survival-blog/scavenging-dumps-for-survival/

Thanks, when the time comes I will check the farm stores out. I wonder if a strong bleach solution, left in for a few days, would help with the smell/odor/taste???

I'm sure that bleach or initially soap, hot water, and agitation would take care of most of it. Perhaps bleach afterwards to sanitize. It wasn't dirty nor was the smell or taste terribly bad, just enough so you started thinking about zorba the greek! I rinsed it out really well and, as I said, use it to water cattle. I doubt you could smell it now that it has been filled and drained a dozen times. I am going to get a couple more and will clean them well before storage of emergency water. Note that I always chained it into my tractors front end loader bucket before filling it. Once full, you are not going to be moving it very much by hand. The one I got was very heavyduty, round, strong and water tight if you use the rubber gasket under the screw down lid.

Jon

Especially for non-drinking purposes, regular 33 gallon garbage cans or kiddie wading pools (covered) might be a reasonable way to store large quantities of water in the basement or yard. A 12 foot diameter, 3 foot deep kiddie pool holds over 2000 gallons of water.

so, how long does bottled water last before it becomes undrinkable? The labels on my bottled water say good until january 2009. Just thinkig of having some extra around for the winter months.

Thanks.

Factory stuff, I have no idea. What is on the label I guess.

I once got some canned water, supplied by a beer maker after a major earthquake hit our area. My plan was to hang onto it as emergency water, but in less than a year the cans started to swell, one even popped...

The greatest compliment I have ever received was from my wife answering her sister's question just prior to the expected arrival of a hurricane, The question: " Why aren't you running around all the stores trying to get batteries, food, water, etc?" The answer: "Because I have a husband who has taken care of all those things!"
There are times when readiness should be increased across the board and there are times to reduce readiness in order to use funds elsewhere.
I have a 55gal plastic drum which formerly held glycerine (Listerine) and it stores water well. I also store water in empty, cleaned 2 liter soda and juice bottles. I have a group of 5gal water jugs that are kept filled for operating the porta-potty and flushing of the toilets.
Everytime we make a store run, we pick up a little something. In food stores, my wife picks up 1 or 2 canned goods while I specialize in dry goods.
My wife keeps extra paper towels, toilet paper, diapers, wet ones, etc in stock at all times.
There are certain medicines that we keep 1 or 2 prescriptions filled, ahead of our needs to insure they are available.
Going out to the stores and dealing with the "Herd" mentality is not only being too late, it can get you hurt or killed. Being prepared means that you can sit back and watch the "herd frenzy" from a distance and smile.
To figure out my needs, I looked @ various checklists, but I also paid attention to what I did, for a couple of weeks. This is how I figured out what items I needed that weren't included on the checklists or that applied to my personal situation more so than other's situations. I don't try to be stocked up all at once. That is prohibitively expensive and I would be facing "block obsolescence" as well. I get a few things, steadily and I rotate my supplies, steadily.
My readines is always about an 8 on a 1 - 10 scale! Like Leah Ratcliffe says, "I don't do dumb and helpless"

Although I posted an after-action briefing on the subject of the Delaware River Flooding See
link I’d like to return to the subject in the context of the current thread.

Of course, experience is the best teacher, and as I mentioned in the aforementioned post, there’s a set of basics that trump pretty much all the other survival gear for shelter-in-place situations, and it’s what we’ve implemented at both at a personal level and in the context of the fire company to some extent.

1. Fuels, Fuels, Fuels. Vehicle fuel, generator fuel, woodstove fuel – it’s been called “liquid civilization” in this forum. It’s the one way to get your water well online, get your lights on and get your phone recharged. Stockpiling fuels is a complete pain in the butt, might be illegal where you live, and requires some up-front money. But it’s proven to be important enough that I put it before…

2. Water, Water, Water, Water, Water. Did I mention water? Not just drinking water, water to flush the toilet, water to wash your hands. Greywater recovery is a good idea where possible. Not having water is miserable.

3. Medical Needs – Oxygen, Insulin, Heart Medications, whatever you need, if you don’t have a 1-month supply in-house you don’t have enough. Band aids. Antiseptic cream. FAK items.

4. Communications alternatives. Phones are a pretty reliable means of communications, as are cell phones. But they are subject to overload conditions and simple mechanical failure from wires down. Radio is an option, CB radio & Ham radio come to mind, but from my first-hand experience, the ability of civilians to directly connect with emergency services during emergencies when the phones are out is severely limited.

5. Batteries – so many batteries, so many kinds. Don’t touch them unless it’s an emergency. Take $75 and go buy batteries. Rechargeable ones are a good idea if you know you can keep track of them. If not, buy alkaline. Put them in a box. Don’t touch them until the lights have been off for 24 hours and all your other batteries are dead.
Don’t. Touch. Your. Stash. Of. Batteries. You’ll thank me for this one day.


Things you don’t need as much of, despite what you might think.

A. Food. You have enough in most pantries to last a month or more, just eat a little less. It won’t kill you to eat only 2 meals a day, heck, I think it might help most of us to loose a bit of weight.

B. Electric. Aside from some electric to run your refrigeration, and that’s only needed if you’re in a summertime power loss, you actually don’t need much electric to get by. And you don’t need a huge generator set either. If you limit your electric use to a few hours a day to chill and charge – especially with LED lights and 15-minute NiMH batteries – an 1,800 watt small unit is really quite enough. If you have to have 220v for your water well and hot water heater, you’re stuck without a choice, you probably need a 5,000 watt 220v machine, which is expensive, but again, once you get things up to temperature, get some water up the pipe, there’s no reason to run it all day long.

C. Lots of Guns and Ammo. Yeah, yeah, Katrina….Katrina….Katrina….I know. We had looting in the last flood, and some guys formed an armed patrol, and we didn’t have anymore looting. Simple enough. But for the most part, and in most of America, the reaction to a disaster is for people to help people. Yeah, it’s not as fun to think of than the Mad Max scenarios that we all imagine, but the reality is that I can look the New York blackouts, the recent ice storms in the Midwest, 9/11, the Mississippi floods of the mid 1990’s, wildfires in the west….and the story there is people helping. Katrina certainly reminded us that there’s a scary potential for violence out there, however, you have to contextualize it – New Orleans was already one of the most violent, unstable places in America, so it didn’t take much to trigger things to go bad. But most of America isn’t so unstable.

That said, I don’t think you should not bother with general preparedness, but I’ve been through these 4 to 5 day scenarios a few times now, and this is what we figured out from experience.

Thanks a million for your consise analysis of in-place survival requirements. One thing that troubled us was the lack of lighting during the long winter nights. Not so much for functioning but to aid in keeping up morale. You have covered that under fuel and batteries but I think it's important to keep your spirits up as another facet of survival.

Jon

> Don’t touch them unless it’s an emergency.

Batteries expire. I think it's better to use them and replace them. If you just store and forget them, chances are when you need them they'll be flat and/or leaking acid. It's the same as with food, really. Buy what you eat and eat what you buy.

Exactly. Have two boxes of not quite so many (Home Depot seems to have good deals on mega packs). Mark one box "Now" and the other "Later" (if you have room, store it in the fridge). Use the batteries in the "Now" box as needed. Once a year move the batteries from the "Later" box into the "Now" box and refill the "Later" box with a new purchase. Not only will you keep your batteries fresh, you'll find out how many batteries you go through in a year.

Re: storing batteries in the fridge...from my BTDT files ;-)

IRRC, there have been some forum threads regarding keeping the batteries in the fridge / freezer versus room temperature on both Equipped and Candlepowerforums. Some folks say yes its good and others no its not. My take on it is to keep things relatively cool versus hot...foods and other materials seem to last longer.

Just a heads up...keeping batteries cold in the fridge / freezer is great until you take them out (particularily in a humid environment...) and place a cold battery into a device that contains electronic components and the humidity starts condensing and water collects in the battery compartment and elsewhere in your device. It is both frustrating and can lead to spending money (if you are lucky enough to be able to locate a replacement device during the emergency that you need it for).

My current procedure is to put the batteries in a hermitically sealed container (anything from a ziplock baggie to a tupperware container or what happens to be handy) and storing them in the fridge. When they are needed, I make a point to let them come back up to ambient room or outdoor temperature before removing them from the sealed container and putting them into any devices that are water sensitive. YMMV

Regards,
Comanche7

Slight change of subject, but this was on the website supplied by John.

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/categor...&Page=1

The bad news is they are only available in case quantities.

I agree with martin wholehartedly. After going thru hurricane Wilma here in south florida I also learned a few valueable things from the experience. I realized very, very quickly that in any survival situation you are going to find out almost immediately what you really need, what you forgot, and that adaptability/improvisation is a paramount skill to develop.

Before the storm hit I had rougly 2 days lead time. Like the parable of the ant and the grasshopper, I saw myself as the ant. I had all my supplies ready, water bladders filled, bathtubs filled, etc. I had 2 weeks of shelf stable food (MRE's , and possiblly the best survival food of all - Chef Boyardee ravioli ), a water filter, etc, etc , etc...

Sounds like I was pretty prepared and it was a piece of cake right? Not exactly.... Some oversights on my part became glaringly obvious after the hurricane had passed over and done its damage ( which was pretty substantial in the area I live in)

Things I learned: (Good and Bad)

1. gasoline. You can NEVER have enough of it, ever. I should have had at least 20 gallons in 5 gallon gas cans stored in as secure a location as I could find. Gas was nonexistant for 4 to 6 days, and when it finally arrived in the area the lines were HOURS long ( I waited 3 hrs for 40 dollars worth), and rationed. Not to mention the potential for acts of violence in these places was very real.

2. A Syphon, or hand pump with tubing small enough to fit in an automotive fuel tank... I was lucky enough to find that my neighbor had one. It was essential in transfering fuel from one vehicle to another.

3. Always keep a couple of hundred dollars in various denominations ( 1s, 5s, 10s ) in a safe place. The electricity in my area was out for 12 days before it was restored. The phones were out for 6 days. ATM's need both to supply you with money. And credit cards are useless without it as well. I had money, but not enough in my opinion.

3. Oil Lamps are absolutely, positively, 100% the best way to light up an apartment or home at night. I had 2 lamps that I had purchased at Wal-Mart for 6 dollars a piece, and a gallon of lamp oil. They really light up the place and were a super efficient way of keeping my morale up at night. I could read a book and relax rather than sit in a pitch black box and stress out. ( like 99% of my neighbors did)

4. My Gunsafe gave me piece of mind when I was away from home after the storm. I wasn't worried about looting in the least as my safe is 500lbs (empty) and I was living on the second floor. I simply put all my valueables and papers in it and locked them up. I highly recommend getting one

5. Get your mind right... By that I mean keep your wits about you and remain calm and focused. Stay away from "panic thinking" and for that matter "panic thinkers" I can't stress this enough! Fear and stress are as contageous as the flu, stay away from it. Focus on one thing at a time. Its very easy to let your mind go in a thousand different directions at once. The look of wild desperation I saw in some people's eyes was chilling.

6. Food that doesn't require cooking, or refrigeration is hands down the best type to have. I know this sounds very obvious but you would be amazed at the number of people who were cooking on bbq pits, with charcoal or wood, and had generators running 24/7 to power a refrigerator.

7. I will never use a non LED flashlight by choice ever again. I had purchased an Eternalight, and an Inova 5 LED light for my kits and was very impressed with their performance. In fact, they still have the same batteries in them and are going strong.

8. you can never have enough toilet paper, ever... and I do mean ever.....

The title of the post is a good Mantra for any disaster/survival scenario. You have to be prepared to provide for yourself.

The experation dates are usually consevitive and the products are good well past the dates on the containers. If your going to store them for long periods get the heaviest plastic you can some of them are to thin for long term.

I went to the movies a couple of weeks ago and there were two advertisments for survival kits and one from fema about being prepdared.

Great write up, bat.
The debrief from those that have been through emergencies is a great reality check for people trying to lay the groundwork for a preparedness plan.
Question on one of your bulletpoints:
I know the value of food that needs little preparation and no cooking. You made a comment that you were suprised so many people were cooking in BBQ pits etc. Is there a drawback to that that I am missing?
In my planning, I figure that if sheltering in place with no power, so long as I don't have gas leaks to contend with, I would forfeit my fridge contents after 6 hours or so. Wouldn't the first storehouse you would tap into would be to start cooking the contents of your freezer? I would think that would be the first food to be eaten.
One thing is certain, I would not focus my gas consumption on running a generator that did little more than attempt to salvage my fridge contents.

"...I would forfeit my fridge contents after 6 hours or so..."

I think you may be jumping the gun a little there. We live full time in a RV, moving a lot. When we are on the move we turn the propane off to our refer, often for eight hours or more, with no ill effects. Ice cubes in the freezer are still frozen, stuff in the 'fridge is still cold. How long food will last in a 'fridge with the power off is governed, at least to a certain extent, by how often you open the door. Fridge's are well insulated, and will keep food edible for several days, as long as you don't open the door every 15 minutes...

OldBaldGuy,
Sorry, I said that wrong. At the 6 hr. mark, I will begin thinking about emptying my freezer with my remaining ice and sorting out higher value stuff and transfering to my Igloo cooler, where I can keep things cold for 3 more days, even if I can't get anymore ice.
I would also figure out my menu for the next 24 hours, leaving those things in the fridge.
One of the links I read regarding the upstate NY power outages pointed out many people tried to ride out the outage with food in the fridge, only to lose their food and ruin their refridgerator. Since I just redid our kitchen appliances last year, I will be quicker to get them out of harms way, and not sacrifice them for a couple of gallons of milk and other lower value provisions that I would be uncomfortable keeping even if the power came back on the next day.
Tying this back to the original topic, I can't envision many scenarios where I would be anywhere near breaking into my longer term foods for at least a couple of very well fed days!
All this assumes I have shelter still in place etc. and I have the time to cook..

Makes more sense to me this way. One of the reasons we like to keep a fair amount of frozen meat in the freezer is that, should we ever lose power for a long time (we are talking at our home now, not the RV), those chunks of frozen meat can act as a cooling agent in the ice chest, to help keep the more perishable stuff last a little longer.

I am curios tho, how did people ruin their refridgerators by leaving food in them? Are you talking rotten food odors, or something else???

That was my interpretation- People just left stuff in the fridge maybe when they went off to friends with power and warm showers etc.
I recall the guy from Seattle saying one night without power is "quaint", and then everyday thereafter its all just a PItA.
At the 3 day mark , I figure this would about match my threshold for pain if I could reasonably "evacuate" to a warm shower and someone elses TIVO!

This brings up an interesting sidetrack. Our society tends to rely on refrigeration for too much. Really, if you think about it, there's not much need for refrigeration if you plan a bit. The things I keep in my refrigerator and freezer are easily converted to canned goods, sacrificing freshness and an insignificant amount of quality in doing so. Veggies and fruits are easily substituted. The only advantage to frozen meat is in grilling or roasting, as most of the meat I cook goes into casseroles, stews, soups sauces or meatloaf. Canned meat is something we eat on a regular enough basis anyways, so the only meat to keep in the freezer then is stuff that goes on the grill or in the roaster. So what's left? Ice? Confections? Eggs or Milk in the fridge? Canned or even powdered milk isn't so bad if it means I don't have to rely on refrigeration so much. I drank gallons of powdered rehydrated milk in Iraq, and it was far better than what they were giving us in the cartons in the cooler. If the slightly off taste bothers you, add a little cocoa or malt or ovaltine or whatever and you'd never notice it. Eggs would be the tough thing to get around I suppose. Powdered eggs and egg substitute just don't quite cut it I reckon. I can make them work in baked goods without too much suffering, but reconstituting them into scramble or omlette is almost not pallatable, and I can tolerate a lot. I wish someone could make a decent, shelf stable egg substitute that also had reduced cholesterol. So far all I can find still comes in a carton and requires refrigeration. Oh, if only we would take to irradiating our food stock.

So anyaways the point of refrigeration is convenience and freshness, and it would be best if we adopted the same attitude as our forefathers and took to canning and preserving a little more anyways. I can get by on spagetti with meat sauce, tuna casserole, chicken ala king, turkey and rice, curried shrimp, shepard's pie and ravioli for a long time. Espeically if I am cooking them up from scratch myself.

One thing that can be done if you happen to have a large upright or chest type freezer is freeze jugs of water (we usually do half gallon milk jugs, they fit nicely in the ice chests we have). They will function as ice to help keep things cold, and give you some extra water when they finally thaw...

Hi capsu,

I should have clarified the point about cooking with a bbq pit a little better.

During the first 72 hours I totally understood the cooking over an open flame to utilize what had been under refrigeration. That seemed logical. Why let the food in the fridge go to waste? But after 5+ days and beyond it just seemed a HUGE waste of resourses ( fuel, money, and time ) to me.

Why?

Basically after 24 to 48 hours small shops (convienence stores, etc )were beginning to do cash only business even though there was no electricity. Charcoal and lighter fluid were going for top dollar. There were amazingly LOADS of canned goods still on the shelf! And the baffling part was that almost no one was buying any of them at all!! They were snatching up 5 day old bread and unrefrigerated cheese, eggs, and milk ( yes, milk! )like it was mana from heaven. I did see quite a few people buying pasta which was definately better than unrefrigerated dairy products but not by much at all.

Why? well it takes alot of water to boil pasta, and there were warnings not to drink the tap water without treating it with bleach. so essentially these folks were using up their DRINKING water! <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Also consider the amount of fuel needed to boil a gallon of water, its immense..

Now, another thing to consider is that it was pretty warm, and VERY humid outside. Mosquitos were quite active as well. The last thing that seemed like fun was cooking over a fire, slathered with DEET..

As I mentioned above It also seemed to be a waste of resourses. Fires need fuel (wood, charcoal , propane, etc)

One of my Personal Survival Commandments (PSC) is : "Conserve Thy Resources, and squander them not Foolishly, or DOOM ON YOU!!!"

I mean, if that method of cooking is your only option then you have no choice. But these people were using their heads for nothing more than hat racks.

I also consider shelf stable food to be more hygenic by far... I can eat out of a can, tin, or MRE pouch not worrying if its thoroughly cooked and when I'm done I dispose of the package without having to further expend my drinking water for washing dishes, mess kits, or pots and pans. Not to mention that if you aren't thourough in cleaning your mess kit and all utensils you run the very serious risk of Cramping Gut or Runny Butt... Neither of which is very fun under the best of circumstances, let alone in a survival situation..

Yeah! Besides, there goes the TP.