What are the opinions of those who live in colder climates on owning the U.S. Army’s New Generation III Extended Cold Weather Clothing System? Is something like this available to civilians? I'm clueless.

http://www.adstactical.com/about_ads/gen3_ecwcs.htm

I found this comment on it:

"During Operation Mountain Lion I found myself praying for bad weather, the first time in my military career I was actually begging for a cold front to come through. I knew my soldiers could handle it and the enemy couldn't. ECWCS allowed my men to outlast the enemy on their own terrain. When the enemy was forced out of the mountains due to the bitter cold to take shelter, that's when we got them."
-- LTC Christopher Cavoli, US Army 10th Mountain Division, Afghanistan

Simon

So they don't have ACU's yet? I figured they all would by now if they're Army and deployed.

On another forum the price given for the soft shell jacket was $349.99 for civilian sales. You could look at BlackHawk's stuff, it's not as expensive. I'll keep my used
Gen-1 Goretex or get a German flecktarn Goretex parka.

Dave

There are reports of problems with synthetic underlayers melting to the
skin of the troops in bombings etc. They might well want to go back to the
wool now that they have itchless, machine wash versions. The superlight
stuff works better than synthetic too for wicking and staying warm when
wet.

Here are some example for research.
http://www.icebreaker.com/site/home.html
https://www.smartwool.com/default.cfm

Last winter up in the White Mountains, I had on UnderArmour Cold Gear, a fleece pullover and a Gen I ECWCS parka. Wind chill was around -20*F. I was sweating when we got to the top. The point I'm trying to make is I would rather spend $100 or less on Gen I and combine it correctly with other layers than whatever Gen II or III costs.

Simon, the government stuff is certainly good. But it is really no better than what is (and has been) available on the civilian market for a long time from companies like Patagonia, Mountain Hardwear, Marmot, The North Face and many others.

All ECWCS consists of is modern mountaineering clothing done up in drab colors and with the layers given a numbering system. The technology is nothing unique to the government items.

If you look for sales at places like Patagonia, Sierra Trading Post and BackCountryGear (among others) you can get the same technology for a lot less $$$ and hassle. If you are lucky enough to live near a Patagonia outlet store then you can get even better deals.

BlackHawk did not invent the softshell, they just overcharge for it.

Good point. I have read that some military commanders have forbidden their troops to wear synthetic underwear. Massif makes fleece & other warm gear from fire-resistant Nomex but the cost is significant.

I've worn the ECWCS since almost its inception. They are following the civilian market; not the other way around. You get get the same, or better, quality stuff with brand name gear. And, if you buy it through certain companies, can probably get it replaced for free in the event of failure.
The military stuff is usually built too heavily for my liking (personal preference). Even though I posess a set of gen II gear, I only keep them in my jeep, as just in case items. When I go out in winter, I prefer my gear, as its lighter, less constricting, and generally all around more comfortable. But, thats just my $0.02 worth. Others may differ here.

I have a few decades of mountaineering behind me and many more decades of backpacking, camping and hiking. I have been there when new things like Gore-Tex, polarfleece, polypro and other miracle fabrics came along. While some have been excellent when used properly and understanding what to expect, others are hyped too much and really seem to perform somewhat less than desired. While I have numerous polarfleece items and like some aspects of them, I also have become aware of limitations and some negative aspects. Besides the melting to skin in a bombing (which I no longer need to endure...I hope) the fleece will melt small holes when a campfire ash lands on them and have some potential to burn of not watched carefully. I also do not like wearing fleece while hiking or doing strenuous activities, it makes me sweat and feel uncomfortable. Wind cuts through most fleece garments and can make me feel colder than if I wasn't wearing it.
Synthetics do dry rapidly because the fibers do not soak up water, only retain it between actual fibers, which is a good feature. It does not seem to keep me very warm if it becomes wet though, which is not a very desireable feature and could be dangerous in extreme conditions.
I have gone back to a combo of wool, synthetics and wind layers of Gore-tex or similar. I prefer the properties of wool mainly the abliity to insulate when completely wet, more wind resistant and does not end up with small burn holes when worn near a fire. Wool also drys rapidly compared to other natural fabrics and most wools are comfortable worn next to the skin. I realize some are allergic or have itching problems with wool, that is sometimes due to the quality of a particular garment.
I recently watched the Everest shows on Discovery and noticed a lot of synthetic clothing, which is not all bad, just probably not a good as a mix of wool in the layering. It is to me, more a trend then a carefully researched method of outdoor dress. I would like to see some serious research into the effects on a person in all conditions while wearing synthetics vs. wool. I think some polarfleece aficionados would be surprised at the outcome! Cheers!

I have read that GI's hate the new ACU's. They reportedly hate the material it is made out of, and they hate the design in general. Don't know myself, having never worn the stuff.

I do know that, even though for my personal use there are many civilian items that I feel equal or exceed the new GI cold weather stuff, I think that it is great that the military is finally issuing adequate cold weather gear. I can still remember being kicked out into sub-zero weather in the 60's with only cotton fatigues and a cotton M-65 field jacket with liner. Insulated underware? Only if you bought it yourself...