First post so please go easy on me. Break me in gently.....

Help me understand this: I keep reading about people who were "unprepared" for the experience they endured. Doesn't matter if was Mr. Kim, hikers on Mt. Hood, or the guy with the PLB thing. Even is someone DOES survive, I read of how they should have done things better.

So, I would like to know if anyone has been in an unexpected situation where they had all they items they needed to get safely back (whether they were in cold, warm, tropic, or a desert environment.)

Thanks and waiting (with head tucked in my shoulders and hands covering all the vitals......)

Michael

Welcome, and I will try to be gentle.

If you are prepared for a likely situation, and it happens, then it is inconvenient, but not an emergency.

For example, you carry a spare tire in your vehicle. You have the tools and knowledge to change a flat tire as well. Someday you may have a flat. You change it and continue on your way. Now, for some people (not on this forum), this would be an EMERGENCY!

If I am out on a day hike, and get stuck out overnight, it is an unplanned and uncomfortable overnight hike. It does not kill me.

Is that what you were getting at?

Many people are in those situations every day, getting home safe and sound without problem isn't very news worthy.
Getting home safe with some issues is a learning exercise, just as learning from others mistakes.
You must be careful to not confuse learning ans criticism, sometimes it can be hard to tell the difference.
Learning from mistakes is a good way to learn, I sure make enough mistakes that someday I should be really smart <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
There is also Murphy's law. Whatever goes wrong it will be the one thing you haven't prepared for. I make the following addition to Murphy's law: The more gear you have the less chance you will need it so its better to buy, pack and carry as much gear as you can.

Sure, I had my PSK, belt kit, knife, folding saw, and hydration backpack (along with a few other things) on me while out searching for suitable timber to cut for woodcarving over a year ago. I unexpectedly got disoriented, and had to use my compass to find my way out of the woods. Not good enough?

“Enough” is a pretty relative term. I’ve been in a few situations that I have needed to use my survival gear. However, I am still here to share my stories, so I would say that I was adequately prepared to handle the situation. Sure there are instances I wish I had brought some different gear or done things differently, but when I look back on a past experience, it is all too easy to pick out what I could have done better.

One of my favorite stories is when my friends and I (7 people in all) drove to the mountains one evening to play in the snow. We were having a blast and before we knew it, it has becoming dark. We decided it was time to turn around and head home. The snow must have softened while we were up there or something, because on the way down we hit a soft spot, and all three vehicles (my Jeep, a Subaru, and a stock F-150) sunk down so their undercarriages were hi-centered on the snow.

I did not have a winch, so I rigged up a sort of hand winch using my Hi-Lift Jack, tow chains, and a few tow straps. It was a lot of hard work, but eventually we were able to free my Jeep and move it to more solid ground. From there I had to daisy chain all 3 of my tow straps together to reach the other vehicles and tow them out. We were stuck up there for the better half of the night, and luckily I had enough food, water, extra clothing, etc in my jeep to keep everyone comfortable.

In retrospect, winch would have saved me a lot of time and effort, but it turned out I was some how able to make it home without one. However, if I had been any less prepared, we would have been in real trouble. I had enough personal gear for me to spend the night, but not enough for the other 6 people in my group. By the end of the night not one piece of my recovery equipment or survival gear went un-used.

No, you are never prepared enough, is the simple answer.

The guy who went hiking and cliffed out, took a risk, but he stopped when he was in over his head and he rescued. He stopped when it was too risky, he stayed put and signaled.

The guys on Hood got overwelmed by a variable outside of thier control and things went down hill. Bad luck, compounded by over confidence and lack of means to signal.

Kim did a lot wrong except keep his kids alive, and that was probably as much his wife as him.

My oops were compounded by over confidence, lack of equipment, and poor planning.

So no, you CAN'T be prepared enough. But what you've seen have been after action analysis of the events. Those are supposed to be complete and detailed, so you know what went wrong, how it when wrong, and what could have been done to make it better. It's called learning from another's mistakes. And when you screw up enough, we aren't going to be subtle. As I might have said other places, if I die due to an oops on my part, I want this forum to disect my last actions to see what I did wrong.

Hi Mike,

Welcome to ETS. Please enjoy your visits and come back often. You will most likely find that we are a pretty friendly bunch and hopefully you will enjoy the camadarie and information that is available.

With respect to the question that you posed, KI6IW has pretty much set the common theme for being prepared. If you prepare for something, anybody can always "Monday morning quarterback" with 20-20 hindsight and say that if you had this or that (or done this or that) you would have been better off. And in many cases this will likely be true.

However, like many other things in life, this can be carried to extremes...i.e. it would seem that you could have everything that you could pack into an ocean liner (in order to be prepared when the planned outing is just to cruise around Key Largo for half a day) and still be short of something. The extra energy and resouces that you applied to the trip would not be commesurate with the enjoyment of that cruise.

Please understand that I'm not by any means advocating going unprepared, just simply stating that one's preparations should be in line (and practical) with the planned activity. A walk in a city park to go fly kites is not the normal time that one would require a PLB, however having one with you when spending a day backpacking in the wilderness would be a more likely venue for needing it.

In reality, it is doubtful that anyone could ever be prepared for everything all the time and everywhere that they might find themselves. The point is to be as PREPARED AS PRACTICAL for the time and place that you expect to be going.

It is really kind of like buying insurance, you never hope you need it, but it is there just in case. The bottom line is that you never see the accident that you've prevented by being prepared properly.

Hope this helps answer your question.

Regards,
Comanche7

"The bottom line is that you never see the accident that you've prevented by being prepared properly."

- I like that.

Harley

If I am out on a day hike, and get stuck out overnight, it is an unplanned and uncomfortable overnight hike. It does not kill me.

I try to hammer that concept into the boys in the troop all the time. When we are on what we think is a day hike, I always make sure they have thought about what they would need to have with them if they had to spend the night out.

I learned the hard way as a youth. Some college buddies and I had "hiked" into a fairly remote stream to do some trout fishing. Great fishing, but, one of my buddies was trying to get out into the stream to cast into a certain swirl... well, rocks in streams are often slippery. The rest of his mishap is blurry, because we were actually laughing at him until we realized he had done something bad to his lower leg, and couldn't get out of the water the way his ankle was jammed. In the end, he was a nasty mess, with a couple body parts going in wrong directions, but, nothing compound, so it was only a nasty mess, not a bloody mess <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> We were already in early evening. We had figured we might be walking the end of the trail in the dark on the way out, but, we had all been here before, and didn't worry about it. Now, however, the three of us were down to 2 able bodied and 1 who couldn't walk. Fortunately, in our tackle bags, we had enough stuff to lash together some sticks to immobilize the leg, and used a couple of bandanas to wrap his ankle. We decided to spend the night, and walk out at first light, rather than trying to walk Jim out in the dark on a hilly trail. (We really didn't want to stay that night, we were afraid how painful his leg was going to get, but, for some reason, he was ok if he was able to keep it still.) I remembered RICE, rest, ice, compression, elevation from my Scouting days, and although we didn't have ice, he did put his leg in the cold mountain stream for 15 of 20 minutes each hour, and it seemed to help.

We had a lighter, bait knife, some junk food, and a stream. We made a nice fire, dried out our clothes, built up some soft bedding from pine bows, and really didn't suffer too much. We even cooked a couple of trout fillets wrapped around sticks over the fire. I can remember parts of that night like they were yesterday.

It was really not such a big deal now that I think of it, but, at the time, we all felt pretty stupid about several things. We hadn't told anyone where we were going, we didn't really have any food, or water to speak of, just a couple candy bars and the soda bottles that we used to get water from the stream. (Back then we didn't know about filtering that stuff.)
We had no extra clothes, and it's a good thing it was summer. We didn't have even the most basic of first aid supplies with us, or even a whistle to signal if we had needed to. I think between the three of us we had one flashlight, and that was by accident, it was in a tackle bag. We improvised a bunch, and that was good. I guess the most amazing thing was that none of us "lost it" during this. We were certainly in an unplanned situation, but, we all had done a lot of "planned" camping, and so the outdoors wasn't really a scary place for us.

Ever since then, I have been far more aware of the "ten essentials" and having them with me... I knew what they were back then, from my days as a Boy Scout, I always had that stuff with me on my "planned" overnights... but, I hadn't really taken them to heart until I had my own unexpected night in the woods. I guess that's why I work so hard to help the boys in my Troop learn the lesson too.

Yep, that was gentle. Thanks.

As usual, great responses. I appreciate your comments and your time.

Ok, that's it then! The next time I post something, you can take the gloves off and roll up yer sleeves and let me have it! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Michael