NO CHARGE...
THATS WHY I VOLUNTEER...
ACCIDENTS HAPPEN...AND NOT ALL THE TIME...
HOWEVER, IF YOU WERE IN ANOTHER COUNTRY? WELL....

For people who make an honest mistake, like the Kim's, or honestly get stuck by the unexpected, like chest pains while hiking or an AD while hunting (ie, Mr. Chaney), no charge.

For people who do the amazingly stupid, like not bringing their fishing boat in when there is a hurricane on the way or drive trucks out on iced over lakes that aren't solid enough yet, or take no actions to help themselves beforehand, like the people who think a cellphone is a survival kit and a sore back due to being out of shape is an emergency, I say fine the suckers.

But the trouble comes into people in the middle, like the guys on Mt Hood or any of the rescues on Denali or the clowns who chopper up to the top of a mountain to ski down and get caught in their own avalanche, I think there needs to be a middle ground. I'm probably going to annoy people with this, but I know that most of the bigger mountains are state or federal land- if you have to pay for a permit to camp in Yellowstone, I don't see why there shouldn't have to be a requirement to pay for a permit to climb on that land.

Down side to that is getting the insurance companies to go for it. They balk at paying for transport with a bad appendix, much less the surgery and the recovery room.

The one thing I wish would happen more, not just for SAR, but also for EMS and fire (particularly in areas where it is all volunteer) is people who needed the services and can afford to make a gift doing so.

Post deleted by Doug_Ritter

I second you on many points. I think that people who have no respect for common sense should pay for their mistakes not by being cold and uncomortable for few hours but should be hit where it hurts the most which is their wallet. Honest mistakes happen and maybe there shouldnt be a specific fee but estimated donations expected.

I like the way that scuba diving emergencies are set up. Med evac and decompression chamber are very expensive and regardless if you made a mistake or something went wrong you are being billed and we are talking here bills of about $10k. You are responsible period.

Same goes for med evac in other countries and I saw it in the clinics on Mt Everest. You either pay up front or have a proof of some kind of insurance plan. You do something stupid it is gonna cost you pretty penny.

I think that taxing gun permits, atv permits is pointless. I mean it is a source of the money but hunters/ atvers/ offroaders are not the one that require SAR services. It is hikers, climbers who very often disregard any rules and hope for luck and rescue when SHTF since help is only cellphone call away.

I think that small agencies should be able to bill federal gov't who after all should be able to bill indivudual. I also think that if total neglect is shown towards rules and regulations person should be fined.

In the end what would be nice to have is divers equivalent of insurance for hikers... I believe I pay about $40 bucks a year to not pay $10k in bills just in case I have bends. I would pay $40 a year for hiking insurance (more for climbing, etc) to have a peace of mind. Such insurance should be offered when buying hiking permits on federal lands at parks hq. If you declined you are than responsible for your bill. Simple.

This happened in the White mountains a few years back. Seems a couple of young men decided to hike into the WMNF, with a backpack full of beer, & nothing more. In November, IIRC. Also, the only clothing they had were jeans, T-shirts, & jean jackets. They were rescued, & charged. It was found that they went into the wildeness unprepared, and risked their own lives & the lives of searchers because of their stupidity. Now, at least there, if the rescued are found negligent, they can be charged.
I am also a rescue volunteer in MA. Even though we arent paid, we still have to take tests, & meet certain criteria to be allowed to join in on a search. And, we have to be contacted through the state PD. So, even though we work for free, we are still regulated. Most of this is a result of different scenarios that have occured in the past, involving untrained searchers, who then have to be rescued. We model our agency on ones in CA, as well as what FEMA originally used (forgot what FEMA is now called). I dont mind doing it for freee at all. Thats why I volunteer for it. I think that, if someone needs to be rescued because they go into the wilderness unprepared, or, what happens quite a bit, people get too lazy to walk out (happens at Mt. Greylock quite a bit), then they should be charged. Not so we can be paid; but, rather, to allow the state to purchase better gear like Stokes litters, specialized gear, or even fund some training courses (we all must be at LEAST first responder qualified). It isnt about money; its about finding & rescuing those who need it, regardless of why, in the most efficient way possible. All expenses come out of the volunteer's pockets.

I'm a Captain at local volunteer EMS agency and I'm frustrated with the fact that I deal with outdated equipment, work on the shoe string budget that usually means that I have enough money for gas and nrbs and have no funding for better training and tools but over the years we all learn to make with what we have. But it would be nice to be able to bill somebody for rescue effort not to get paid but to apply the money towards better gear and training. I still believe that hitting somebody in the wallet for stupidty is the best detterment from happening again.

Example not SAR related:
I have this guy that I used to pick up on regular bases for heroin overdose. He gets high and passes out. I show up and do my deed and bring him back and drop him at the ER. Everytime I bring him in he gets a close to a $1000 bus ride. Never paid a dime. He has a $600 cellphone but can't pay the ambulance bill. One day his cellphone accidently fell and got run over by the ambulance. He was crying about the cellphone so we told him that it happens. He went out and bought a new one. Next week when we were carrying him out one of the cops in custody of his belongings slipped and dropped his cellphone and wallet in the drain. Cellphone was shot. Guy went out and bought a new phone. Next time I picked him up he ODed outside during rain storm and his cellphone got wet again. He got out and bought another one. Guess what happnened next time? We picked him up and this time somebody worked him over and his cellphone was gone. He went out and bought another one. In period of a month just ambulance rides costed him close to $4000 without counting hosp stays. His cellphones costed him about $2400. He never paid his hosp bills but he paid for his cellphones. He was my regular for 2 years and I havent had his since June yet I see him on the streets. Quite honsetly I do believe that it finally got him where he had to pay out of his own pocket for his stupidity. Apply the same equation to SAR. Upon showing neglect charge them for fuel, men hours, equipment, wear and tear and most likely it will not happen again.

Even though it is not exactly SAR-related, I agree with you, and you provide a good example. However, take the same person being rescued repeatedly because of his idiotic drug-abuse problem in SAR scenarios and I think you would get more of the same, even if you charged him as a deterrent (unless there was a legal way of making him pay like garnishing wages, etc.) wouldn't you?

"It isnt about money; its about finding & rescuing those who need it, regardless of why, in the most efficient way possible. All expenses come out of the volunteer's pockets."

That is exactly the point, as far as I'm concerned. SAR people are often putting their life on the line. I don't want to hear that some volunteer with SAR lost his life or got maimed because he had to make do with inferior equipment. If they want to volunteer, fine. That's probably the best way to keep control of your group, rather than letting a bureaucrat or a bean-counter do it. But I firmly think they should at least have their equipment and expenses covered.

Sue

Sue, I do too. Although, I use my own personal hiking gear, and may have a hard time trusting someone elses, with the exception of community gear (ropes, litters, etc). Normally, if we are there for longer than one period (about 12 hours), the red cross, or volunteer folks from the local community will come out & feed us. Which is nice.
I was on the Molly Bish search team when she first disappeared. Then, when they found a couple of clues a year or so later, I was on THAT team. Her parents personally came out & thanked us each individually that day. That, to me, is what its all about. WE have an excellent PIO who talks with relatives, and let them know whats going on. The Bish's understood we were doing all we could. My heart goes out to them to this day.

Maybe an idea would be to tack on a small fee or tax to the sale of any outdoor and sporting goods product. A penny per dollar perhaps? That wouldn't break anybody's bank and retailers won't suffer if they increased costs by that small amount. Proceeds could be used to better equip SAR personnel or whatever the SAR think it should go toward. Maybe even life insurance in the event of something unfortunate happening to a SAR person.

A penny on a million dollars of sales in a state would generate $10,000. A larger state that might have a large volume of sales would increase that amount. A billion dollars of outdoor and sporting goods sold would generate $10 million for SAR. No chump change there. And if the fee were larger than 1%...you get the picture.