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#80624 - 12/17/06 03:55 PM PLB - At what price would you buy one?
Husky71 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 12/17/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Southern California
I do a lot of dirtbike motorcycle riding on trails that don't see much activity and lately I've been looking around at the various PLBs on the market.

To me the prices seems rather high for what's a pretty simple device. I can see the price being higher for internal GPS, but for a plain old 406 MHz transmitter sending a little data - am I missing something?

If you don't already own one, at what price would you consider buying in? <$400, <$300, <$200, etc.

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#80625 - 12/17/06 06:03 PM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
cedfire Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 659
Loc: Orygun
I wonder if the missing Kim family and the missing hikers on Mt. Hood will generate enough interest by the public to buy PLBs. I bet if that happens, prices will drop even further.

Ideally, something priced in the $300 range would be fine with me. I don't have one, but the thought has been bouncing around in the back of my mind.

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#80626 - 12/17/06 06:39 PM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
duckear Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 478
Simple device? Yes, it one sense it is, but really rather amazing what it can do.

You are buying not only the device, but the liability the company carries by bringing such a device to market. Plus, the market of potential customers is somewhat small, thus the higher price.

I picked up one of the ACR's with internal GPS last year for a bit over $500.

I think those that "need" a $200 custom knife, yet balk at a PLB due to price have misplaced priorities.


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#80627 - 12/17/06 07:49 PM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
Nicodemus Offline
Paranoid?
Veteran

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 1341
Loc: Virginia, US
I'd prefer to pay $200 for one, but it looks like I'm going to pay between $500 and $600.

I've paid up to $850.00 for one survival course and am going to do so again and again for the advanced classes, thousands of dollars on gear, and hundreds of dollars on books, so another level of added safety at $500, one that may prove useful in a worst case scenario, doesn't seem too bad when I think it all through. Especially when I consider some of the trips I'm planning to take in the next year.

Don't get me wrong, $500 is a lot of dough, and it'll take me a while to save it up, but I think such security is worth the money.
_________________________
"Learn survival skills when your life doesn't depend on it."

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#80629 - 12/18/06 01:36 AM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
Doug_Ritter Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 2216
Having become somewhat intimately involved in developing the specifications to which these PLBs must be certified, I can assure you that there's a lot more to it than first meets the eye and the costs of gaining the required approvals is HUGE and difficult enough technically that many companies have given up or had to go back to the drawing boards. It ain't plug and play. The consumer market, even with just two players at this time, is very, very competitive, so the prices are not artificially high and margins at all levels of distribution are low. The size of the market, relative to the cost of development and certification is very small. Everyone in the industry wishes they were more affordable because everyone realizes that price is one of the major impediments to more people buying one.
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Editor
Equipped To Survive®
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#80630 - 12/18/06 01:41 AM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
Doug_Ritter Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 2216
Quote:
I'd really like to see a GPS & PLB all-in-one unit someday.

If by that you mean a fully functional handheld GPS with an integrated PLB (as opposed to a PLB with an integrated GPS receiver as is already available) , don't hold your breath. People want their GPS, which they use all the time, to be small and light as possible. While PLBs will be getting smaller, the power requirements for the PLB, which must be totally discrete and separate, will always dictate a battery that's bigger than many entire GPSes. Just not practical and likely never will be.
_________________________
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Editor
Equipped To Survive®
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Equipped To Survive Foundation
www.KnifeRights.org
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#80631 - 12/18/06 03:07 AM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
Since2003 Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2205
$249.00

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#80632 - 12/18/06 03:26 AM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
fordwillman Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 103
Loc: Arizona
Hi everyone,
I live in Arizona and go off road a lot. Both with 4 wheel drive vehicles and ATV's in exploring and camping in some pretty remote areas of Utah, Arizona and New Mexico, and I would love to get a PLB. It has been on my mind for some time, but the price IS a detering factor at this point.
I dont have any $200 custom knives and my means are very modest to say the least. (And dont ask why I have a 4x4 or ATV, because both were long term investments over the course of many years and my 4x4 is also my work vehicle).
So price IS what is keeping me from getting one at this point. I would invest in one at $250-$300 though, because at that point I could save up for one.

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#80633 - 12/18/06 05:02 AM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
Husky71 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 12/17/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Southern California
Vast distances, what's ~23000 miles between friends <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I started doing some more reading about them this week and actually ordered a copy of the RCTM standard Friday. Hope to have it for Christmas.

It should be interesting reading - I'm a satcom engineer by trade <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I've been through product developments with what I imagine are similar types of requirements, both electrically and mechanically, and with extremely rigorous certification requirements.

In any case, I should have a better handle on the requirements in a week or two. Sure would be nice to find a way to drive the cost of these things down to the point where the buy decision is a no brainer for the average family.

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#80634 - 12/18/06 05:49 AM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Depends on my need. If I stay were I am, $200, because there are places I go that just aren't visited in winter. If I can't get myself out in an emergency, I'm there until the buzzards find me in spring. That being said, if I was to, say, take a job in Alaska or Nevada that was going to be road miles intensive, I'd spring for it now.

My one concern is people taking risks outside of their ability to manage, because they can trigger the PLB at any time. Same issue I've got with the GPS/cellphone combo, or just cellphones. Doug, is there anything in the standards to help nip this possibility in the bud other than the current price point? Or is it just hoping that people won't be morons?
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#80635 - 12/18/06 01:44 PM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5359
Loc: SOCAL
Off the price point topic,
Quote:
My one concern is people taking risks outside of their ability to manage, because they can trigger the PLB at any time. Same issue I've got with the GPS/cellphone combo, or just cellphones. My one concern is people taking risks outside of their ability to manage, because they can trigger the PLB at any time. Same issue I've got with the GPS/cellphone combo
All that does is let folks know where you are, there's no guarantee of rescue. Ask those guys on Mt Hood.

Back to the price point issue, if the technology is mature I could buy one at the current price. I just don't want to spring for one and then find it's been replaced by a newer model (better, smaller, faster) so I'm just waiting.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#80636 - 12/18/06 02:50 PM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
Simon Offline


Registered: 04/24/06
Posts: 398
Loc: Tennessee
PLBs shouldn't really become as cheap and easy to get as cell phones should they? I think personal responsibility goes along with the cost of buying one, so a VERY low cost PLB would be nice, but it may not be the safe way for the market to go. REMEMBER, I'm just saying MAY not be the way to go.

Hypothetical situation speaking of a moron buying one and unnecessarily triggering it: Where do you draw the line if a rescue is mounted and lives are risked and funds used? What do you do with the knucklehead when you find him safe and sound not in any danger to begin with? Seriously, what if someone was injured or killed during the rescue? I just want to learn what, if any, repercussions goes along with triggering one unnecessarily.

I would like to see one in the $200 - $250 range. I think that is about as reasonable/accessible as they should get for now.
_________________________
Me, a vegetarian? My set of teeth came with canines.

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#80637 - 12/18/06 02:54 PM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
Doug_Ritter Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 2216
That is a fear that's been expressed oftentimes by some, but there's little evidence that frivolous alerts will be a problem. EPIRBs have been in use for about a decade with no such widespread problems. Occasionally, yes, it may happen. There's already been one prosecution of such a false alert. The law does allow for that. There is always some offsetting negative issue with any positive technology. In this case, the good far outweighs any bad.
_________________________
Doug Ritter
Editor
Equipped To Survive®
Chairman & Executive Director
Equipped To Survive Foundation
www.KnifeRights.org
www.DougRitter.com

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#80638 - 12/18/06 03:08 PM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5359
Loc: SOCAL
The thing with cell phones and cellphone-GPS combos is that RIGHT NOW most 911 units don't automatically read them. Notice that T-Mobile engineers were crunching the math to locate these signals. In my case a relative will get a text message with a lat-long from my GPS and told to send help. If they determine that means calling 911, so-be-it.

At first I was a bit PO'd that my phone has aGPS but that no one can read it out. Now I think that maybe it's just as well. In an urban setting where time is critical (homefires, B&E, rapes) and the phone can pin-point its location quickly it may be good, but I'm not so sure it's necessary when all someone really needs is a tow, which is really all the Kim's needed until after they'd been stuck for a couple days.

So I send my text message and the relatives call a tow truck for me -- that works. If I was in voice contact, I'd have called roadside assistance too.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#80639 - 12/18/06 03:22 PM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2211
Loc: NE Wisconsin
Quote:
I just want to learn what, if any, repercussions goes along with triggering one unnecessarily.


From the ETS Ultimate PLB FAQ at http://www.equipped.org/faq_plb/default.asp :

"Deliberate misuse or a transmitting a hoax distress is a federal felony punishable by a $250,000 fine, imprisonment for six years and restitution to the rescue agency for all costs incurred responding to the false distress."

Ouch! Accidental signaling is a different story. You can either contact officials to cancel any rescue activities ASAP, or at worst rescuers will be happy to find you alive and in no danger - but I'm sure there will be a LOT of questions to make sure it was truly an accident.

When you purchase a PLB your a required by U.S. law to register your beacon. The registration form requires you to provide telephone numbers for yourself and an emergency contact.

The rescue process involves calling the telephone numbers to determine if the PLB's owner could actually be in the place where the beacon reports AND be in need of rescue. If in doubt, a SAR team will be called into service.

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#80640 - 12/18/06 03:26 PM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
Simon Offline


Registered: 04/24/06
Posts: 398
Loc: Tennessee
Thanks, KenK, you hit the nail on the head for me.
_________________________
Me, a vegetarian? My set of teeth came with canines.

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#80641 - 12/18/06 07:01 PM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
Excomantia Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 98
Loc: Moved to my new home and now h...
I know its not the same thing, but here locally there are seven golf courses, four of which have the GPS enabled electronic screens that tell the Proshop where each cart is, and also tell each cart how far they are to the pin.. all of them have a little button that is for medical emergencies, when the button is pressed the local first responders and the proshop are both called.
When the proshop gets that call someone (with the training) is sposed to grab the FAK and AED and rush out to the location of the cart and provide first aid until the first responders can get there to take over.
This button is pressed fairly often, and most of the time the 'medical emergency' is 'I'm out of beer, did you bring more?'. After several of those false calls (and they were all charged for the emergency call to the first responders btw) it began to take longer for the first responders to respond. After a week or two, at the rate of three to four false calls (with no real emergencies) a week, the first responders soon said that they were going to stop responding to the calls until it was confirmed by the staff on hand, and who could blame them.
After another few weeks the proshop staff began sending one of the untrained staff members with a radio to check and see if the call was for real. After about a week of that, the staff that was being sent out to check on the situation began to slack off and began takeing longer to get out to the cart themselves (I'll just get these people comeing off the course real quick so I don't miss the tip).
When there eventually was a real medical emergency, from the time that the button was pressed till the first responders arrived was over an hour. I don't remember what happened to the guy.

As I said, I know its not the same, but something like this would be what I was afraid of happening. That being said, I can't afford a PLB at their current price.
If I feel that the situation calls for me to have a PLB (deep woods backpacking, long driveing trips where I might pass through remote areas, etc) I can rent one for a fraction of the price, and the Rental price is more then likely going to fall greatly as the price of the PLB comes down and the tech becomes more widely available.
If I start useing one often enough (which I can't see needing in my present circumstance) I will gladly shell out the cash on credit and work for a year or two to fully pay back the unbudgeted amount.
I feel that if the price becomes too low, perhaps a one use SAR Insureance coverage by the PLB manufacturer could be added into the price and included with the guarantee of the product, if it isn't allready, that would protect you from X amount of cost if you have to activate the PLB for a genuine reason.
Or something similar to keep the price at a level where those people who would push that button for 'medical emergencies' that only require 'another six pack of beer' thinking twice, if they get one, about useing it for such trival things, as long as its Non-Government (The government already takes enough of my money then tries to sound like I should be grateful when they give some back) artificiality.
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Excomantia

Words Mean Something.

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#80642 - 12/18/06 10:35 PM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
ponder Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 367
Loc: American Redoubt
I would buy a PLB/GPS today for $500 if -
1. The batteries were easily bought and replaced.
2. I was convinced it would not be obsolete in 5 years.
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PonderosaSports.com
Horseshoe Bend, ID
American Redoubt
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#80643 - 12/19/06 12:36 AM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
ducktapeguy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 358
Quote:
My one concern is people taking risks outside of their ability to manage, because they can trigger the PLB at any time


I think that's a very valid concern which is very dependent on price. If the cost of these units comes down dramatically, I think that may create an even bigger problem. That is, people will start to RELY on these units as their escape plan rather than being properly prepared in the first place.

Right now, I think the high price has a certain side benefit of making the purchase of a PLB a decision to be taken very seriously, not as an afterthought. After the James Kim scenario, and now the Mt. Hood incident, it seems like the motto of the day is "gotta buy a PLB". I wouldn't be surprised if there was an immediate increase in the sales of the beacons, simply because of the media attention and people are starting to think of them as the "Get of of trouble" button. Not only are you going to have more false alarms, but after too many false alarms, the SAR might start to take a more casual approach to each response.

I would love to have access to a cheap and affordable PLB, I think it's a great solution to a current problem, but also the opening to a much more troublesome issue. However, if I really thought I needed one, I would have bought one already. But like everything else electronic, I wouldn't put complete faith in it.

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#80644 - 12/19/06 01:39 AM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2211
Loc: NE Wisconsin
Isn't that kind of like claiming that if everyone can dial 911 then people won't plan properly, will take unnecessary risks, might submit false reports, that 911 call centers won't take calls seriously, etc... ?

Some of that has happened, but for the most part 911 centers and the availability of phones (both wired and wireless) have be very successful.

The PLB system does have VERY severe penalties for real false alerts. Registration of PLB's is free, online, very easy, and required by law to be updated every two years. The registration captures information for the user and two emergency contacts that is used to assess the validity of alerts before rescue teams are dispatched. It really isn't much different than a 911 call center.

Yes, the current PLB system will eventually become outdated, but I still went ahead and purchased a PLB. The batteries need to be replaced every five years - I figure if I get 10 years out of it, I'll be more than happy and I'll feel much safer in areas without cell service. Besides, by then much smaller PLBs will almost certianly by available.

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#80645 - 12/19/06 04:11 AM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Thanks, Doug and Ken- if I'd bothered to look in the faq, I wouldn't have asked. I like those penalties.

I just think about all the searches that have happened around here where some moron went out unprepared and got in trouble, and then told the media something like "oh, I knew if I dialed 911, I'd be ok." I'd personally like to strangle those morons.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#80646 - 12/19/06 07:19 AM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
turbo Offline
Member

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 133
Loc: Oregon
While I have been repairing the damage to my roof and fence from the wind storm last Thursday, I keep thinking of those three climbers on Mt Hood which is just over my shoulder.

During the repair it has rained, hailed, snowed, and gotten very cold and windy and I am only at 200 foot in elevation. The cedar lumber I purchased to repair the fence has been frozen together for the last three days. I can only imagine what those guys have gone through.

Every time I start to forget about those climbers, a 304Th Rescue Helicopter flys overhead. I know they are working out of Hood River but they are refueling at The Dalles. I spend a lot of time on Mt Hood and I know how spotty cell phone serve is whether analog or the various digital technologies. I am going to get a PLB with built in GPS. Most likely an ACR TerraFix 406 GPS I/O PLB Product # 2798.4 but the cheapest price I can find for it is $575 and that is with the $75 ACR rebate.

If any of you know where I can get this model cheaper, let me know.

I also like the McMurdo Pains Wessex Fast Find Plus, even more expensive, but they have a cold temperature battery pack.

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#80647 - 12/19/06 07:45 AM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
aloha Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1059
Loc: Hawaii, USA
This may not be realistic, but I would love to see PLB's very inexpensive to buy, but you pay an annual fee for keeping the service and a premium for activating the beacon.

This could prorate the cost, making it more likely that people will have it in situations where they might need it and will use it to save their lives and not frivolously because of the back-end fee. To save your life, what price would you pay? If I couldn't get out of a situation safely and was faced with my death or that of my family, I would pay anything to get help. Well almost anything.

Do you think such a change in pricing structure might be workable. The PLB companies get less money up front but probably more over time. Maybe they won't even get less up front because of increased volume of sales. Plus additional ongoing subscription revenues. Plus a back end fee that hopefully no one ever pays because they prepared and do not need to activate the beacon.

Paying an annual subscription or registration fee could also keep preparation more in the forefront of peoples' minds.

An example of the possible math might be:

Current (most likely not accurate, but for illustrative purpose only):

$500 per unit
$0 registration
1 per 100,000 have one

Revenue $500 per 100,000 first year
Cost: I have no clue

Change in pricing:

$100 per unit
$100 per year registration
50 per 100,000 have one

Revenue $10,000 per 100,000 first year plus $5,000 per year
Cost: I have no clue

I have no idea how valid any of this is, but with such a drastic reduction in sales price plus media hype due to current events, depending on the costs and legality of such a marketting change, I think it could be financially feasible. Also due to economies of scale, I would imagine that the per unit costs would also go down making it more profitable for manufacturers.

When technology is updated, it is not as painful to chuck the old one and buy a new one and you still pay per year. Cheap insurance if you ask me.
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#80648 - 12/19/06 01:39 PM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
duckear Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 478
Yearly fees would suck big time. The nice thing to buy once and your done until battery replacement time and back off the ACR.

And what about the guy that turns his own while trapped but didn't pay his fee?

No, responsibility is never cheap.



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#80649 - 12/19/06 04:38 PM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2211
Loc: NE Wisconsin
Having just purchased one (I received it yesterday) I did a bunch of price-searching on the web, but couldn't find anything different from what you've found. The prices must be very carefully controlled by ACR Electronics since nobody seems to go below a certain price - though lots are trying to sell for much more - buyer beware.

Referring to the unit with the internal GPS:

The TerraFix and AeroFix are $650, with a $75 rebate from ACR, so the final price is $575.

The AquaFix is available for $575, with a $65 value RapidDitch Express bag, but no $75 rebate.

I didn't need the bag and prefered the green or black case, so I focused on the TerraFix or AeroFix. I ended up buying the AeroFx - with the black case - from http://www.aeromedix.com, if nothing else because they've done very well by me with my Ritter knife a and light purchases. The only problem with buying the AeroFix is that the external GPS cord that comes with it has bare wire ends rather than the serial connector. But then again I don't really need to use an external GPS, so that is no big loss. At some time I may see if I can buy the connector with the serial connector just to be safe.

By the way, it does take some time to register the PLB with NOAA, apply for the rebate with ACR, and complete the warranty info with ACR. I wish the rebate web site would have told me that I didn't need to submit warranty info also since they collect almost the same info, but it didn't. I will say that the NOAA PLB registration site is very nicely done. I especially like that I can go back anytime and update/modify the contact information. That helps ensure that that info is up-to-date, which means as much to me as it does to NOAA.

Ken K.

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#80650 - 12/19/06 05:24 PM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
Nicodemus Offline
Paranoid?
Veteran

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 1341
Loc: Virginia, US
Knowing that REI usually has a big sale in January, I'm going to see what kind of angle I can work on picking up the Terrafix 406 GPS I/O.

They sell it for nearly $50.00 more than everyone else ($699.00), but with the 20% discount of their January Sale, if it's the same as last year, that brings the price down to $559.20 and If I redeem my dividend dollars for membership purchases on that I can bring it down even further. My whole extended family uses my card, so I have quite a few points built up. Unfortunately, since it's a January sale and ACR's $75.00 rebate period only lasts until December 31, I won't be able to claim that.

Eh... I'm probably dreamin'... There's probably some small print stuff I forgot about that would keep such things as PLBs out of any sales. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I'll wait and see. I don't have the money to get a PLB now, and If I can't work some angle on it in January, I won't get one then either, and will have to save a little longer.
_________________________
"Learn survival skills when your life doesn't depend on it."

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#80651 - 12/19/06 06:04 PM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2211
Loc: NE Wisconsin
As they say ... "better late than never".

Good luck!!

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#80652 - 12/19/06 11:31 PM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
ducktapeguy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 358
Quote:
Isn't that kind of like claiming that if everyone can dial 911 then people won't plan properly, will take unnecessary risks, might submit false reports, that 911 call centers won't take calls seriously, etc... ?


Yes, unfortunately I think that is exactly what would happen if the PLB's became available to the average consumer. I'm not arguing that they wouldn't help save people's lives, I think it defnitely would, but the option for an easy rescue (for them) will change people's attitudes torwards personal responsibility. Look at the article on this website regarding the first rescue attributed to a PLB

http://www.equipped.org/plb_first_use.htm

Within two weeks, it was already being misused by the exact same person.

911 is a very good comparison, I think it started out as a very good idea to help people in need, but quickly became too easy for it's own good. And I do think people who live in more remote areas probably where 911 access is not as available, probably prepare differently than a city dweller who thinks fire or law enforcement rescue is only a call away.

There is no doubt that 911 has saved many lives, but there is also a lot of misuse of the system. Last I read, only 30% of the calls recieved by the CHP are actual emergencies. In fact, there is even a CD of stupid 911 calls, just do a search on google for "stupid 911 calls" and listen to some of them. The hamburger one is actually pretty funny, in a pitiful way. I may be a pessimist, but I see the same thing happeneing with PLB's. Although there will be a lot more legitimate rescues with more PLB's, there will also be a much bigger increase in false alarms.

The difference between this a PLB and 911 is, a false 911 call will at most waste a policemans time, and some taxpayers money. A false PLB alert will put rescuers lives at risk, at a much greater cost. Rather than being a last resort for rescue, I'm afraid it will become the default prepardness plan for many.

I would still like to see the cost of these come down, but there should be mandatory training in the proper use, plus a "one time use" fee everytime one is activated. Say maybe $5000 plus any additional cost of rescue. That would prevent people from triggering them unneccesarily. Somehow people will have to be held financially responsible, either in the up front cost at the time of purchase, or after the rescue.

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#80653 - 12/20/06 06:08 PM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
Craig_phx Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 715
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
For me it would have to be less than $100. It seems in the same category as a smoke detector or fire extinguisher. It just sits there and has no other utility. If you ever need it; it would be worth any money you would ever make in your life. The rest of the time it is just something you lug around because you are overcautious.
_________________________
Thermo-regulate, hydrate and communicate.

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#80654 - 12/20/06 06:51 PM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
Mark_G Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 03/16/06
Posts: 80
Loc: Stafford, VA
Under 300 bucks. For one thing you can rent them for like 50 bucks a week. So if I was planning an adventure in some remote part of the world, an extra 50-100 bucks on a PBL would be a good investment (compared to the cost of such a trip). I don't get to venture off to places that remote often, so buying one right now at 600 would seem to be a poor investment, for me, at this time.

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#80655 - 12/21/06 05:23 AM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
Nicodemus Offline
Paranoid?
Veteran

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 1341
Loc: Virginia, US
Whether to get one or not, no matter what the price, is really going to come down to personal Risk Assesment, and some folks think they can dodge bullets if it comes down to it instead of spend a lot of money. Kidding <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
"Learn survival skills when your life doesn't depend on it."

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#80656 - 12/21/06 06:35 AM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
massacre Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 781
Loc: Central Illinois
I'd pay $200-250 to get one. It seems very similar to other early-adopter technology. CD Burners were over a grand and the blanks were $20 back around 1995/96. Now you can get a DVD-RW/CD-RW combo drive for $30-50 and the blanks run in the pennies per disc range. So, once the companies go through the process, work out the bugs, and get a functional, spec-complete item, it's a matter of volume to get the costs down.

From what Doug said, it sounds very much as if the costs are not in the actual physical production, but rather in R&D, QA, Lawyers, Regulation certification, and the like. But once they work through that, the more people that buy them the cheaper they get.

Just like Blu-Ray/HD-DVD, the early adopters are the ones who pay the price to get the item to market. As the item goes mass-market, those initial costs really don't change, and the physical production costs are likely to drop. I mean, in principle, there's not a lot going on with these devices. Once they get past the sunk costs, I'm sure costs will go down.

And as for everyone worrying about abuse ala 911 system, $250,000 is a pretty steep fine. Plus, nobody pays $500 all at once just to have access to 911. They pay a tiny fraction of that cost on a monthly bill, and it's available on every phone, including anonymous payphones. And the fee/crime is much less for 911 pranking or inappropriate use. 911 is MUCH more likely to be abused because of those differences. Plus, personal responsibility means that I only care about the price dropping because I know that *I* will be responsible. I hope that the survivorman type shows and recent hicking/driving deaths in the news get more folks preparing themselves, and buying more of this type of gear. It only serves to move the production from niche to mass markets, lowering prices and presumably improving product design.
_________________________
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards.

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#80658 - 01/01/07 07:02 PM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I just purchased an ACR AeroFix PLB, with GPS along with Doug's RSK MK3 knife (from AeroMedix). It seemed like a great offer and I figured if I was going to go "all out" and order a PLB, why not sweeten the deal with a knife?

I ordered it back on December 29th and recently found out that I ordered the AERO fix and not the TERRA Fix, like I had originally wanted. Some searching on the forum revealed that its really the same thing. I plan on carrying the PLB on my backpacking trips and I think its a good investment, since almost all of my hikes are solo. Still will be working on survival skills though. Anyone know when the second season of Survivorman comes out?

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#80659 - 01/01/07 08:48 PM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2211
Loc: NE Wisconsin
Congratulations on your new purchases. They are both wonderful tools. Isn't the handle of the Mk3 really cool looking? The knife is much heftier than some might expect.

As with all of Doug's knives, make sure you sharpen them at 15 degrees to keep the original angle. I highly recommend the Spyderco Shaprmaker, if you don't already have one.

Though you may not need it, you may have already noted that the GPS connector that comes with the AeroFix has bare wire ends. If you want to purchase the one with the serial connector, contact Sandy at ACR Electronics, (954)981-3333 EXT 2110, [email]sgopie@acrelectronics.com.[/email] The serial connector is part #9391 and costs $37.00 plus shipping. I e-mailed the details of the order to her and the ncalled her with my VISA card number (I didn't want to e-mail a credit card number).

At some point I might find a local store with Otterboxes and find one that fits well.

Ken K.

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#80660 - 01/02/07 02:30 AM Re: PLB - At what price would you buy one?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, I haven't recieved either one from Aeromedix yet (I ordered on the 29th and New Year's delayed it). I still can't get over how I ordered the AeroFix instead of the Terra Fix---I just thought I would have noticed that. I guess in the long run it really won't make a difference. The label on the PLB, color of the holster, and wires seem to be the only difference.

As far as the connectors go, I don't think I'll be using them. I always have a small Garmin ForeTrex 101 in my backpack, but its reception can't be any greater than the onboard one on the ACR unit.

I also ordered a padded, waterproof pouch for the AeroFix from Pacific Outdoor Equipment (the G-Pouch). Earlier, I had considered an Otter or Pelican box, but those weigh as much as the actual unit. They would protect it from anything, though. Almost indestructible.

The package should be here by the 4th, according to UPS.

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#86970 - 02/28/07 07:57 PM Re: PLB - Would ANYONE pay wholesale? [Re: Since2003]
ponder Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 367
Loc: American Redoubt
Originally Posted By: martinfocazio
$249.00


MicrOfix - ResQfix - Would anyone even pay wholesale?!?!
_________________________
Cliff Harrison
PonderosaSports.com
Horseshoe Bend, ID
American Redoubt
N43.9668 W116.1888

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#115703 - 12/12/07 11:30 PM Re: PLB - Would ANYONE pay wholesale? [Re: ponder]
ponder Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 367
Loc: American Redoubt
We are coming up on a year since ACR distributed the Microfix PLB.

On 02/28/07 I asked if anyone would pay wholesale. There was no takers.

How many now have an ACR Microfix?

_________________________
Cliff Harrison
PonderosaSports.com
Horseshoe Bend, ID
American Redoubt
N43.9668 W116.1888

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