Hi,

I just tried boiling 500ml of water with my pocket Esbit stove. I have detailed statistics, but the executive summary is that it took 40 minutes and 5 tablets.

The weather was warm and sunny, but quite windy. Ambient temperature about 20°C, and we are pretty much at sea level here. I was impressed at how the Esbit tablet remained lit even as the wind caught it. I will repeat the test in the garage, where there will be draughts but no wind.

Also, the fuel makes a sooty deposit on the pan, which is annoying and will make everything it touches black.

I made a cup of tea (500ml) with the boiling water, which was quite nice after waiting for 40 minutes.

A

At that point, might as well just use the tablet as a giant wetfire tinder and start a camp fire!

I have one word for you: windscreen.

Actually, a few more words: take some heavy duty aluminum foil and double it, shape it into a C shape, put it up close around the pot, and block the wind with it. You'll be amazed.

Yes, that was my plan. I figured boiling water in the garage would represent 'ideal conditions', then I could compare it with 'real-world' conditions.

I have an aluminium box in two parts, which I plan to use as a base and a shield.

More news as it's made,

A

ame, you are a better man than I am. I don't have the patience to wait 40 minutes for water to boil. To me, after 40 minutes, I better have a darn tasty hot meal to go with my hot beverage.

sotto, with your wind screen, how long does it take to get water (amount?) to boil? I tried the foil windscreen before and it didn't work very well for me. You think there is a differrence between the heavy duty versus the regular tin foil?

Easy. I simply imagined myself in an emergency situation, then instead of running around waving my arms in the air panicking I sat down and boiled some water to make tea. I sat on the front step watching the pot (hey! Maybe that's why it took ages to boil) and relaxed in the sun.

After my tea I imagined I had been rescued and full internet access had been restored so I could report my findings to you.

Would 500ml (about 1 pint) be sufficient for a cup of tea and a hot meal (one of those dehydrated ones)?

A

Esbit stoves dont work well at all. I had one in the army for years, and it never did any better than luke-warm. Someone else recently asked a thread about this same thing.
There are far better methods than an esbit stove. The trioxane tabs are great for starting a fire, THEN boiling water. As a stove, it doesnt work that well. Even with a windscreen/heat reflector. If youre using it simply to warm meals, its fantastic though. Just dont count on it to purify water.

I also found, from experience, that it will work much better in a covered pot instead of one without a lid.

Personally, I would use the esbit for warming stuff (like soup), but not for boiling. It will work well enought to keep from eating stone-cold food, but probably not a great idea for water purification.

Thanks for the info. But then why it's recommended in the SAS survival handbook for the survival pouch in the essentials chapter? Maybe you should use a thin aluminum mess tin with lid such as the Trangia? Anyway I'm considering the MSR WhisperLite International as a versatile stove for home preparedness, cold climate and snoeshowing expeditions. But that's another topic.

Frankie

Ame,

I salute you on patience. I find I can only use my esbit-type stove like that in warmer weather for boiling water for tea unless in ample shelter/windscreen. I have the best luck with shallow pans like the standard old U.S. Army mess kit to get it boiling real quickly.

Simon

BTW have you ever tried to melt snow with the Esbit stove? Is it better to build a candle stove with tea candles and food cans nested and suspended by a nail? And are the UCO candleliers any good for melting snow or better, boiling water? I know I'll have to experiment for myself...

Frankie

windscreen

that said, I prefer alcohol stoves to solid fuel stoves. I have bullet-proof brass trangia alcohol stove as well as some home-made penny stoves.

IME, nothing beats a good hot burner such as my MSR Dragonfly. But for simplicity, I like an alcohol stove with the solid fuel stoves third.

I have had ok luck with a heavy foil windscreen or even digging/finding a hole or depression and using a foil cover on the cup/pot.

good luck
eta a bit of foil on the bottom of your pot will keep the pot clean

The nice thing about a sold fuel stove is that you can throw it in a truk and forget about it. Using alcohol seems to have its own problems, such as leaking and evaporation.

Do not treat that book as gospel. There are plenty of errors in almost every military survival manual including the SAS book.

I'm wondering if you've got bad fuel, it does sometimes happen.

I'll be honest, I've never boiled water with just esbit or triox either, but I've gotten 20 ounces hot enough to make tea with, which to me means that there is a LOT of gas bubbles clinging to the bottom of the pan/pot, basically covering the metal below the waterline. I've also brought 12 ounces to a simmer if it is in a SMALL container, like an Olicamp cup, that has a cover, which can be enough to rehydrate your meal in some cases.

Use tablets for purification, esbit/triox for morale, warmth and tinder. That's my rule of thumb.

Water doesn't have to boil for purification. Heating to over 65C for 1 minute is enough for pasteurisation. Hotter and longer is better, of course.

I've heard different. I've always been told a 5 minute rolling boil kills whatever you need it to. The old way of boiling it for so many minutes, then adding 1 minute for every 1000' of altitude took too much to think about, and you MAY not know what your altitude it. So, keeping it simple (K.I.S.S.) is 5 minute rolling boil at ANY altitude. that should kill anything.
But, I also agree that, in a short term survival situation, if you have alternate methods for purification, use those. Takes less time, and, with tablets, you dont have to sit around & watch. Add, shake, wait, done!

Jetboil .. two minutes, two cups boiled. Its not cheap but boy, does it work. If you run out of fuel you still have a cup or the pot to cook with. [just a thought]

I've used an Esbit and I've built a can stove for solid fuel (works better than Esbit) - save that stuff for tinder!

For stove cooking you can't beat alcohol, IMO. For years (and I mean years!) I used an Optimus hiker (gasoline). Great stove - still have it and it works great. Then I went to Whisperlite for years - still have it and works great. Then I learned how to make an alcohol stove from a cat food can! Never going back! For one person (two stoves=two people, etc.) on the move there is absolutely nothing like it. The great virtues of alcohol - doesn't explode, doesn't stink if spilled on gear, buy everywhere in the world, evaporates and doesn't linger, has other uses, stove setup weighs 1/10th gasoline types, zero maintenance, instant priming - need I go on?

Spill? I use little Nalgene bottle - 1 oz. per meal (one pot + tea) - 4 oz. bottle goes a weekend. Hasn't leaked yet.

Boils one pint water in 4 minutes flat. I can make a cat food stove (Google "Atlanta Alcohol Stove"), priming pan and windscreen in 30 minutes. Cost = $0.50 (if you buy everything except cat food - add $0.50 for cat food). Guess you can tell - I love these things! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The Nuwick 120 hr. candle will work as a stove. Better yet - one of my Scouts, few years ago, made a candle stove. He cut wicking into ten short wicks (wire core materials with loops like Nuwick), melted paraffin into a tuna can (half full), added ten wicks. Voila! Stove! It worked. Made pot sooty. Needed windscreen. But - cheap, effective, imaginative!

See my other post for a real stove - from a cat food can!

I like the idea and I will make one candle stove à la Monty Alford's YuCan for sure (YuCan as in Yukon and "you can" and food can...) and it's also the best way to go in a snow cave. Here's another thread with pictures of a YuCan stove:

www.bushcraftuk.com

I read up on this alcohol stove a long time ago but never tried making it. Anyone ever tried it? The inventor originally meant for it to be a backup stove that he could even use with on-hand whiskey for fuel, if I recall correctly. I think I know what the response will be from some drinkers. <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/SuperCat/index.html

Thanks OldScout, Simon, and others for the links to the alcohol stoves. Why have I never stumbled on this before??!! I use denat. alcohol by the gallons for making shellac, am aware of how clean (and hot) it burns, and yet never heard of or thought of to try this. This alcohol stove is great!

I considered (am considering) an Esbit stove for $10 (German design, unk. manufaturer). Coghlans sells a Chinese made one for about $5. Even though I'm going to work on these alcohol stoves, I think I'll still get one of the Esbit stoves.

I made one once. It didn't seem to be any better, or worse, than most of the other design stoves I have made, but it was a lot easier to make. But I used Heet for fuel, wouldn't want to waste the good stuff...

I like this design you linked (Super Cat). I would recommend you look at the Atlanta stove too. It is more efficient of fuel I believe than the "large hole" designs. I also know it to be quite wind resistant. As your site says the size of the pot has a real impact on efficiency. It seems to boil fastest when the flames just lick up the sides of the pot a little.

Here are several different types of alcohol stoves.. for most of the types it gives examples and on some of them it gives DIY instruction. This was the site that I first found out about them and was going to use to build them.

I've used the homemade alcohol stoves a few times. I enjoy the simplicity of them. They boil a pot of water in about 5 mins or so. The only downfall is. if you run out of fuel prematurely, you cannot add more to the hot stove. Other than that, it is lightweight, insanely simple to use, and the fuel for it can be found literally anywhere. I highly recommend these over esbit stoves.

"...you cannot add more to the hot stove..."

Very true. But the good news is that those little bitty aluminum stoves cool off very rapidly...

Which type did you use?
Open Flame, Chimny/Updraft, Low Pressure SideBurner, Open Jet, Hybird SideBurner Jet, or Pressurized Jet?
See here (again) and scroll down, has links with examples and pictures.

I f you plan on getting a alcohol stove, check out a Trangia stove first

Alcohal stoves get iffy below freezing, and are useless below zero. I love my trangia for about 7 months out of the year.

I have an open jet stove. Some guy on backpackinglight.com makes them for about $5. I've had it for about a year now. I have never tried it below freezing. I also have an MSR isobutane stove (pocketrocket, I think it is), and am gonna try that out this winter. The alcohol stove, you just cannot beat for weight or fuel availability though. Or for simplicity, for that matter.

Military survival handbooks are primarily written for soldiers. The equippment they have is usually what was issued. Some equippment may not be the very best for the purpose as some compromise has to be made.
The esbit stove has some advantages. It has the size of a deck of cards even with fuel. It is easy to use. The fuel can´t be spilled and it can be used as tinder. When you decide that you can live with its disadvantages it´s not that bad.
Considering the bulk and weight the stove can be used as backup.

True. I've used mine down to +10 F (about as cold as it gets Mid-Atlantic coastal!) Here's what I do.
Fuel stove
Stick one-quarter (just a smidge) vaseline-cotton ball under prime pan
Spark it - when pan is hot/warm - snuff by pushing onto ground (need a flat place - one drawback of little stove)
Add alcohol prime
Put stove on prime pan and light

Though I couldn't swear to it I assume as long as you can warm the alcohol it will work in pretty low temps

hey max you'r comment is spot on ....also the esbit stove was developed prior to ww2 in germany to heat/warm a soldiers food ration rather than to COOK a meal....the little stove does it's job well....i've used the stove since the early 1980's as a INFANTRYMAN in germany.....i still use it today and also give them as gifts to my buddys. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />..vince g. 11b inf...

One word: CLIFFstove .

.....CLIFF

The trick becomes keeping it warm- alcohol chills much more quickly than water does, but if you aren't using it for long and can keep it off the ground, it helps in the 0-to-32 degree range. Part of the problem is that below freezing, the water it's absorbed out the of the air wants to be a solid, so you want your stove to be at least 40 degrees (also has better vaporization of the fuel that way).

One of the things I like to use is a small "stove" made from a coffee can that has been opened at both eneds. Two sets of ventilation holes just above/below the start of the ribs, and four small holes in the middle groove. Two pieces of bent coat hanger wire that can be slid though the middle holes or either set of air holes pretty much completes the system. With the trangia, I put the wires in the middle possition, and place the stove on top of them, with a pot/cup at the end- it has a nice chimney action, and once the coffee can is warm, it will warm the air so you can get the trangia roaring.

Add the top off a small can if you want to use ebsit or triox in the stove, and balance it on the cross wires at the top set of vent holes. Or burn small wood in it- nice small fire, easy to clean up after, but still pretty hot. I often use this is if I want to conserve fuel, but don't want a big fire over night in the summer, becuase you end up with about a 4" diameter fire scar and maybe a cup of ashes to cover up.

I actually pack two sets of cross wires, becuase an olicamp cup for a nalgene bottle fits into a standard sized coffee can very snuggly, so if you put the trangia on the bottom set of vent holes and the bottom of the cup at the top set, you will have boiling tea water pretty quick, particularly if you hung onto the bottom of the coffee can, as it makes a pretty good lid for the cup.

For those interested in Esbit stoves, note there are some lighter weight rigs. I carry one one of these lightweight "stoves" in my EDC kit:

Esbit Folding Wing Stove (1.3oz)
FireLite Titanium Esbit Wing Stove (.45oz)

Vargo makes an interesting alcohol stove from titanium that an also double as a Esbit stove:

Vargo Triad Titanium Alcohol/Fuel Tab Stove (1.06oz)

-john


Edit: Oh, and I carry some tin foil for a wind shield.

What can we say? Some people just like to make things. That way if it ever is messed up, you don't have to shop. You might already have another made. More fun and cheaper too.

...what he (OldScout) said!
Esbit tablets will boil a pint of water if you have the larger size tablets (they come in two sizes), cover your pot, and have a very tight windscreen. I keep my esbit tablets for tinder and emergencies. The folding stove itself I use as a simplified cat can stove. Cut down a small tin can to fit inside the esbit stove, or use an altoids tin that will fit. Pack the tin with steel wool, fiberglass insulation. You need this fiber to rapidly vaporize the alcohol. To use: Open folding stove, fill tin with alcohol, and light. It will work in any temperature or wind.

I was wondering if there is any differency between this one from a surplus store:



and this one:



The latter has a package from MPI Outdoors. Are they the same? Are the bigger tablets 14g? I think the smaller tablets are from FireLite and are 10g. I've never seen Esbit stoves in store. I will try by mail order.

Thanks

Frankie:


The Esbit tablets are 14g. Other vendors, like Coglan's, have smaller tablets. You can get them online at places like REI or Crapmore I mean Campmor.

More than you ever wanted to know about Esbit tablets and other types of fuels can be found here at Zen Stoves

Hope this helps,

Jeff

The alcohol stove rigs I use (several different ones) just need to get started - after that they heat themselves (vaporizing fuel). Of course, it could be argued that at that point you're just doing what you do with gasoline. But I still like alcohol - plus my vaseline/Bag Balm soaked cotton balls!

I've used my esbit quite a bit...I use an MSR titan kettle it has a tight fitting lid. I also use a homemade windscreen. I have allways been able to boil a pint of water w/ one tab.

Adam

Yes it's probably true and some tricks seem pretty far fetched, for exemple: "Seagulls can be caught by wrapping food around a stone and throwing it in the air. The gull swallows the bait while still on the wing, gulping down the stone with it, and the change in weight causes the bird to crash." I have already thrown a rock on a gull when I was a kid but this trick is funny. I guess it most work sometimes since it's also highlighted in the book.

Esbit stoves basicly ; Suck , theres a lot beter, but the stove/ fuel combonation make it a popular option ; neverless , with a windscreen an esbeit should do a lot beter results than you got (with a wind screen)

Aloha Adam,

How did you make your wind screen and what is it made out of? And how important is that piece that you put under the Esbit? Is it a heat reflector of sorts or to catch embers that might fall out?

And of course there's what, Alka-Seltzer and Rolaids or such that are illegal to carry on some beaches now? Of course you would have to go and retrieve the bird after the antacid takes effect.

I can't imagine being hungry enough to eat a seagull. They taste like a cross between stale dumpster and rotting fish (don't ask how I know, just trust me), and the stink alone can almost put out a fire.

I think I'd cook my socks first.

Yeah, I wouldn't either. Never heard nothing on Pelicans. Are they the same? Probably taste about a cross between a Spotted Owl and a Whooping Crane anyway in my book, I just haven't ever considered it.

They are made out of duct aluminum folded over:

http://www.backpacking.net/makegear/mod-esbit/

Good Idea !!
I keep Esbit stoves in various kits, as backups. Easy enough to add 3 pieces of aluminium to the stove's package to dramatically increase their relatively poor effectiveness.

Mahalo Frankie! Merry Christmas everyone!