In a dayhiker's kit, what are your most essential items for survival in the wilderness come what may?

Welcome to the forum RobertRogers, be prepared for a deluge of information in answer to your question. Everyone will have a different answer for you based on their own experience, you will just need to process the information based on your needs.

If I were to make a list to answer your question this would be it:

First make your quest simple and purchase one of Doug Ritter's Pocket Survival Packs it is a good foundation for a PSK (Personel Survival Kit) for backpacking/hiking. The PSP takes care of a matchless fire starter, signal mirror, whistle and a number of other important items.
Next I would add the following:

1. Adquate water, carry more then you think you need. I also carry something for backup water storage, like Gerber Breast Milk bags. Add some Micropur MP-1 water purification tabA lets and a couple coffee filters to complete your water kit.
2. A full sized compass and good maps of the area your are hiking in. Even if you are planning on travelling well worn trails you should have these items.
3. Headlamp or flashlight, an LED light is prefered with fresh batteries. for Dayhikers I personally think the smaller Petzl Headlamps like the Tikka are best.
4. Locking blade knife or locking blade multi-tool. Doug RItter's RSK MK1 and Leatherman's Wave are my choices.
5. Adventure Medical Kit's (AMK) Heat Sheet and Heat Sheet Bivy are a great addition to the PSP for warmth and shealter. The also double as a signal panel if needed.
6. Dress for sucsess, leave the house with the proper clothing already on and be prepared for the worse weather that could affect you. This includes making sure you have sunscreen, head cover, and sunglasses/eye protection.
7. GOOD footwear, don't skip on quality footwear...
8. A decent first aid kit, AMK makes a number of quality kits for a wide range of needs. I like the Ultra-light 0.7 for day hiking.
9. Your fire starting needs are taken care of in the PSP, but adding a simple BIC lighter or lifeboat matches are a good idea.
10. TELL SOMEONE WHERE YOU ARE GOING. Plan you hike and hike your plan! 90% of SAR is knowing where to start!
11. Expensive but a huge assest to getting found is a PLB... nothing better if you need to be found and rescued!

Hope this is a good start!

Perhaps the best thing to do is to just read this web site (and not just the forum). Next, go pick up a copy of Cody Lundun's "98.6" book. Those two things should get you off to a flying start.

You nailed it!

I"m a big fan of starting a kit with a Ritter PSP. It provides a one-stop way to pick up basic high quality gear at a reasonable price.

Before you pack away all your gear, slide the SparkLite sparker out of the PSP and spend some time lighting cotton balls with it - just to get a feel for how it works. Familiarity will help a lot if something bad happens. The rest of the PSP can pretty much stay packed up.

Many folks tend to slide a mini Bic lighter and a Photon-type LED light into the PSP kit too.

Another item that I prefer to include - but isn't discussed much - is a large bright bandanna. It is useful for keeping sun off your head, swatting bugs, wiping water off morning dew or small crevises - if needed, etc...

Make sure your survival kit is carry ON YOU in a fanny pack or daypack, not in a bag in the tent or car. If you don't have it with you it does absolutely no good.

Though the PSP does come with a little button compass, I'll agree with bringing a "real" compass and a GOOD map of the area. http://www.mytopo.com sells excellent USGS topo maps of the U.S.

Another item that can really help keep you from getting lost is a small GPS - such as a Garmin Geko. Before you head out walking, create a waypoint on the GPS identifying where your vehicle is. After that you'll always know the direction and distance to your vehicle, just in case. You can also pre-enter key waypoints along your hiking trail. This is much easier using software like ExpertGPS and then uploading the waypoints to your GPS. If you do that you'll need a GPS with a PC interface, such as the Geko 201 (as opposed to the 101).

As mentioned, a Personal Locator Beacon (PLB) is the ultimate survival aid. It will quickly bring help to you.

and a jacket; either rain or warm. Makes a huge difference when the weather shifts.


Teacher

And tell someone where you're going and when youexpect to be back.

Just for fun, here's a variation of the Ten Essentials list.

01 First aid kit: bandanna, iodine, tape
02 Shelter: tarp or poncho plus cord
03 Woolens: cap, gloves, sweater, socks
04 Fire: matches, spark, tinder, and kindling
05 Mirror and whistle
06 Compass and map
07 Flashlight
08 Water
09 Knife and hone: folder with saw, ceramic
10 Pot: metal cup or kettle

The Ten Essential Groups
1. Medical- first aid kit, medications, insect repellant
2. Shelter- raingear, emergency blanket, tarp, rope
3. Communication- whistle, signal mirror, HAM radio, PLB, pen/pencil and paper, cellular phone, safety plan
4. Navigation- map, compass, light, GPS
5. Fire (pick 3)- matches, lighter, sparker/tinder, metal match, fresnel lens
6. Hydration- water container, purification method
7. Nutrition- extra food, fishing kit
8. Insulation- jacket, warm hat, gloves, proper footwear, closed-cell foam pad
9. Sun Protection- sunscreen, sunglasses, wide-brimmed hat
10. Tools- knife, repair kit, wristwatch

I like how you organized the list into 10 main categories. That is a very good way to remember them :-) I found this list of 15 essential survival things, but it is more item by item rather than by categories. It seems to fit well with what you guys are saying. essential for survival

Thanks. It is a better approach. I decided on this list to combine ideas from hiking and ideas from survival. I plan to write an article for the local Dallas Sierra Club.

IzzyJG99 wrote:

No offence intended, IzzyJG99, but what do you need with a Topo map? I know the area around you (I lived about an hour south of there two months ago). That land has exactly two elevations: dry and wet.

Honestly, I never felt the slightest need for a topo map in Florida. Maybe around the Mt. Dora area there MIGHT be some use for one, but you could probably do without.

I had to laugh out loud when I read this, because it's partially true. I can imagine what a topo map of florida looks like, just one giant contour line around the entire state <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I took a road trip over there a little while ago, I remember passing these "observation towers" which were basically a two or three story building. It felt like you could see the entire state of florida from the top of one of those. I never got a chance to go to the northern part of the state, but the southern half is as flat as....well, i can't think of a good analogy, cuz whenever I need to describe something extremely flat, I use Florida as the analogy. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The 6 P's: "Proper Planning Prevents [censored] Poor Performance"

It is never a bad or wasted idea to carry a topo map for the area(s) that you are going to be operating in!

Sounds like you have never been to Florida.

Okay, now that I am not in a classroom waiting for my students to finish a quiz let me expand on a few things.

First, as many have intimated, no tool is worth a damn if you do not know how to use it. These days, it seems that land navagation is the lost skill of the outdoors. Inexpensive GPS seem to be one of the last nails in Land Navigation's coffin. Learn it navigate without a GPS, you can find courses across the country but you can get started with a good book like Be Expert with Map and Compass by Bjorn Hjellstorm and practicing alot. Once you are good at finding your way without electronics, you can add a GPS if you feel like it for added safety. I like to mark my location with my GPS and then turn it off so that I have the batteries to find my way back should I need to. Another thing to not forget is at least one set of spare batteries for each device that uses them.

If you can, buy some extra materials to build fires and shelters with and practice with these items.

Assumeing that you can somehow find a way to tramp through the vine encrusted palm meadows infested dry spits of sand while covered in bannana spiders webs over the clothes your wearing over every inch of your body so that a swarm of the second place choice for the Florida State Bird and Insect (The Mosquito) doesn't carry you off and suck you dry, stoping every three steps to pick the sand burrs out of your pant legs and shoes, wishing someone would turn off the sauna and praying that wasn't lightning you just heard just ahead.. You could use a topo map in Florida to avoid the real swampy areas moveing cross country, as well as move to the small inland lakes and streamlets and such for fresh water to purify.. or avoid major roads if that floats your boat..

No problem..
By the way, thats not the way Florida truely is; It truely is a beautiful place if you know where to look.. that was just my first impression after I moved here from the high deserts of Southern California near the northern side of the Angeles National Forest in Palmdale, 11 years ago.

RTFM- if I had a dollar for every tech call I've had that came down to reading the directions, I'd be rich. The same applies to any kind of gear- at least the items is the PSP are hard to use wrong, and there are directions, but in the field is not the time to find out you have the the one-in-a-million oops from AMK, or that you can't use your gear.

And Night raises a good point- don't plan on being peak when you need this. I always assume that I'm going to be soaking wet in zero-ish temperatures with a good wind going, along with either a mild concussion, a broken arm, knee damage, or any combination of the three to go along with my hypothermia. :P

I have never been to Florida, and after your vivid description probably never will, but I have been in the jungles of Central America, and sometimes the hardest thing in using a topo is finding landmarks to check your location against. Given your description, how does one actually use a topo in Fla? Count steps (or canoe paddle thrusts), or something else???

I've never tried it, but I don't see why normal methods wouldn't work.. its mostly the large patches of palm meadows that would be your problems, but the Seminoles and other natives moved around well enough.
North eastern Florida is almost a whole different biome then even the rest of the state, we have plants and animals here that don't go further south, and plants and animals from further south that can't live much further north..
The bad thing about this area is that a lot of the land was/is owned by the paper mills in the area, which plant pines that they harvest for paper products so half the time your driveing along giant corn rows of pine trees..
It is flat though, when I first moved here I 'suffered' from what I called 'elevation deprivation', symptoms included but were not limited to climbing to the rooftops of tall buildings and sitting for hours saying to yourself 'wow, there is a horizon', driveing over tall bridges several times in a row just so that you can see, for the 15th time, that your not driveing around in an endless circle of trees, and puting together a notebook with clipings of 'elevated' places out of magazines, so that you know there are real places like you remember.
*Points to Izzy* He would know better then I would about how to use a topo map though...

Thanks to both of you. It sounds like something you would have to experience to really understand and be profecient with. As are most of the important skills. I'll take more hills and mtns myself...

There is an orienteering club out in Orlando that you should check out. Orienteering is a lot of fun!

One of the best times that I had orienteering was at Deleon Springs. As it turns out there was also a group of civil war re-enactors having a little get-together there too. I was romping the woods wearing jeans, and holding a map and compass. All around me were guys wearing blue or gray, and holding black-powder muskets (no musket balls, though). Those things were loud!

Well, after orienteering, we went back to the mill for pancakes, and finally grabbed a couple of geocaches on the way out. That was a great day.

The sad thing is that I later found out that Deleon springs doesn't want orienteers back there for some reason. Too bad.

To everybody else: sorry for hijacking the threas <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I've lived, worked (SAR, among other duties), and played throughout Florida. Yes, it is very flat, overall. Y'all are missing the point of all of the other information that a topo map provides. It is important info and may, in some cases, be life saving!

I agree Wildman. I've lived in FL all my life (except for a time out for Uncle Sam and Vietnam). I've hiked the FL Trail, the Appalachian Trail, and done SAR here in FL. I believe in Topo maps and use them constantly when I'm camping, hiking, playing, and even canoing.

The only place flatter that Fla. is southern Delaware - where I live. It was ironed! I always have topos with me - wherever I am. Tinder (redundancy!)!

As a former Delawarite I have to agree with you. Slower, lower Delaware is pancake flat.

Good to Great Choices, -USGS and DeLorme. As well as any Like Others out there! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]Excomantia[/email]

My main concern is getting water. I spend most of my time in KY and we have more streams than you can shake a stick at so I always want to have a metal cup and some means of starting a fire and even some water purification tablets. If you don't get water then the other stuff in your kit becomes meaningless pretty damn fast.

Water is first. The fire is also useful for signaling and heat.

The second thing is shelter so I carry a tarp or poncho and some string that I can whip up a shelter with.

Third is food. I always carry more food than I need. Some people might say that is impossible for me to do knowing how much I like to eat! Peanut M&Ms are good and canned deviled SPAM!. I won't go into a long list but these are two of my favorites.

After these priorities you can pretty much figure out what you might like to have with you.

In addition to the top ten, I often add
coat/ jacket
cell phone/ GRMS radio
sunscreen/hat/ sunglasses
walking stick

TRO

yes I agree jeffchem, water has to be the number 1 priority, well, maybe after not freezing to death etc. because without it you are going to be hurting fast.

Survival Times Without Water here

I guess the problem remains how to always have enough of the stuff. The only way is to have filtering/chem/ etc means of making it drinkable

With all due respect, I'll disagree - water is certainly important, but in my view it is not the first priority.

This is all assuming that you've found yourself in a survival situation and have stopped and admitted it to yourself.

The first priority is to attend to serious health issues - both physical and mental. If one of those pressing issues is dehydration, then water indeed becomes an immediate priority. If you've got a PLB along, this is the time to activate it. If the weather is severe, then shelter/body core temperature becomes a first priority.

The second priority is to maintain core body temperature by seaking shelter and warmth (through protection from rain/dew/snow, additional insulation, fire, body-to-body contact).

Of course a fire not only provides warmth, it also helps from a signaling perspective AND it tends to contribute to mental health. Make sure you've safely collected enough wood to maintain your fire over time - so you don't have to try to find wood in the dark. Make sure your fire is under control - especially in dry conditions.

The third priority is signaling and making yourself visible for rescue. This assumes that if you can get rescued soon enough then water will not be an issue - pending priority #1. Part of this depends on the trip plan you gave a responsible friend ... if you won't be missed for several days, then you may be forced to hold off on signalling until it is more likely that someone is looking for you.

The fourth priority is water, though if your means of collecting water is transpiration bags, then you would be best to put those in place after shelter/warmth is available so they have time to do their thing. It is important to keep safety in mind when collecting water - making sure not to fall into dangerous waters, not to get wet and risk exposure, and not to get hopelessly stuck in muddy banks or wetlands.

A fifth priority might be food, if conditions warrant its collection.

At least that's my view of it. If you haven't read Cody Lundin's book, I'd recommend it.

KenK, I have to agree. RE: core temperature and "severe" weather. Caution is required there when using the word "severe", since at fairly high temperatures (50s F) and some wind, the risks can still be significant for reduced capacity due to onset of hypothermia, depending on clothing and other factors. You are correct about medical/mental problems as #1 (if you're bleeding, terminally spooked, etc.), but after that I'd say warmth and shelter. Going back over a hundred years (and I'm sure further) almost every writer on this topic talks about fire as a first priority. There are so many benefits to a fire in any survival (or just temporary inconvenience) scenario that, for me at least, firemaking has always been at the top of my kit and practice list (along with FAK). One last thought: I've often read on this forum that firemaking is a lower issue in an urban kit. Take note that experienced urban survivors (homeless and hobos) always find a barrel, trash and some fire when the weather goes bad - 'nuff said.

Yeah, I guess "severe" is very subjective.

Case in point - I just came back in from putting the flag up our flagpole (half mast to honor Pres. Ford). I ran out barefoot. Its 35F out there (relatively warm to me). In only the time needed to put up the flag my feet hurt so bad it was almost disabling - and I am pretty tolerant of pain.

I agree, KenK. Water indeed can become a priority in warmer weather when the weather is good and you are dehydrated. Brings to mind off topic a bit: Wiseman said in his book something to the extent that man was a tropical animal. Well, maybe overall I guess because Inuit (Eskimos) have larger livers to adapt to their arctic environment.

I prefer:-
PROTECTION
LOCATION
WATER
FOOD

Protect yourself from any immediate threat (fire, flood, cold, heat, blood loss, injury) Get a shelter up, get out of the wind/rain/sun/whatever. Get a fire going.
Locate. Ascertain where you are. can you get out yourself and/or put up signals, blow your whistle, flash your mirror/light, get a fire going.
Water. Hopefully youre carrying some. If not find some. Find damp ground, vegetation, dry stream bed, fissures in rock, puddles, get a solar still, transpiration bag going, catch rain/dew.
Food (you can last three weeks!) make some traps, eat your Mars bar outta your pocket, put fishing line out, make & bow & arrow (keeps you active & you could shoot a birde/small animal)

In the UK at least, Protection & Location are my biggest priorities, NO shortage of water & if i fell or injured myself in the hills Id concentrate on staying warm, dry & being seen.

Interesting that no one has mentioned a sidearm. What about alligators and the like? .357 4" barrel revolver might be a useful addition. Being eaten would be an embarrassment to say the least.

The other point worth mentioning is that we are all assuming a certain degree of ability when it comes to map reading. If your new to the subject then you could do a lot worse than popping over to the Cammenga website and downloading the mapreading pdf file. It's the current U.S. Forces manual. It presumes that the person reading it has no previous knowledge of the subject.
Worth a read even if you know something about the subject. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Though lots of folks enjoy their firearms, I just don't see them as survival essentials - unless in areas where humans are considered food (polar bears, some other bears, lions, hyennas, etc...). In the US about the only land animal that might prey on humans is another human or a mountain lion (but only by ambush and even then rarely). If it is used for hunting, then that isn't so much surviving as living off the land. Just my opinion though.

I'm starting to move navigation with map/compass/GPS from a survival tool bucket into more of an outdoor tool that prevents you from getting lost in the first place bucket. It is a fun and truely imortant skill, but if truely in a survival situation I do think the best thing is to stay put, stay warm & dry, stay hydrated, and get found, unless you truely know how to "walk out" and/or there is absolutely no chance that anyone will be looking for you.

Don't forget bears, feral dogs, snakes and wild pigs. Pigs, which are numerous here in N. Texas, are bad news and will hunt you.

What about humans hunting humans for small green slips of paper that can be exchanged for food? Here and now, let alone in a "survival" situation?

In my not so humble opinion, anyone that refuses the notion of using firearms--whether personally using them, or allowing others to do so--is deluding themselves to the veracity of the Golden Rule.

I like to call it the "Godless Rule": Do unto others before they do unto you.

GPS has always been in my staying found kit. There's one on the dashboard of my car and a smaller non-mappping unit in my backpack with the map. It isn't for emergency use only, it's for everyday use. You still need to stay current with map and compass just in case the GPS dies.

As for the firearm, that's a personal decision based on the individual and the situation they may find themselves. But I wouldn't bury a 9mm or .38Spl in a survival kit either. I'd wear it in a holster where I can get to it quickly when the need arises. Most of the time you don't need a gun for survival, but when you do it's no time to open up a pack. Cougar and other people can be serious threats.

I call that the Silver Rule..
Then there is the Golden Plated Rule.. Do unto others as you would have done unto you, until they do unto you, then do unto them like in kind... It looks like the Golden Rule but is much more shallow.. :-p

Thought I'd share some recent photos of my PSK. In the 1930s, the Mountaineers, a Seattle-based hiking, climbing, and conservation organization, came up with a list of 10 essential items that no climber should be without. These original Ten-Essentials server as the guide for what I have included in my kit. If I added a small local map, I would be covering seven of the recommended ten.

ORIGINAL TEN-ESSENTIALS
1. Map
2. Compass
3. Light
4. Extra Food
5. Water and a Way to Purify it
6. Rain Gear and Extra Clothing
7. First Aid Kit
8. Pocket Knife
9. Matches and Fire Starter
10. Sun Screen and Sunglasses

http://i7.tinypic.com/4fua9aa.jpg
http://i15.tinypic.com/2nalcpg.jpg
http://i9.tinypic.com/33cufds.jpg

MY KIT'S CONTENTS:
Tin-With Reflective Tape In Lid-Stored In Water Proof Vacuum Bag
Survival Instructions
X2 Pieces Rip-Stop Nylon Tape
X6 MicroPur Water Purification Tables
X2 Gerber Breast Milk Bags
X2 Large 2”x3” Elastic Plasters
X2 Medium 1”x3” Elastic Plasters
X4 Butter Fly Closures
Scalpel Blade
3 in 1 Antibacterial Cream
X2 Aspirin
Signal Mirror
Heavy Duty Thread / Fishing Line
Leatherman Micra
Compass
LED Light
Sparker
X4 Fire Tinder
Whistle
Snare Wire
Heavy Duty Needle
Misc. Fishing Tackle
X4 Safety Pins

"Tin-With Reflective Tape In Lid-Stored In Water Proof Vacuum Bag"

what sort of reflective tape? how much can you effectively carry in the lid?

"Survival Instructions"

that you made or downloaded? I'm always curious about instructions...

"Gerber Breast Milk Bags"

I hadn't considered these. What are they made of? Do you have any idea regarding storage lifespan?

Yeti,
The survival instructions and reflective tape in lid of tin are those that came with the BCB "Military Survival Kit" that I bought on Ebay. I bought the breast milk bags at the local market. They are on the small side, about 350 ml, but a lot more serviceable than the two rubbers that came with the original BCB kit.

The flattest country on earth is US highway 77 driving south from Corpus Christi to Kingsville. You could fall asleep at the wheel, drive off the road, and never wake up. No joke.

Yeah KenK, I see your point. Of course it all has to be taken on a case by case basis and each situation might be different.

For example, if you are on a raft in the oceanthen fire may be out of the question and water is most important. If you are in the arctic and not properly dressed then fire is certainly exceedingly important and takes immediate priority over water.

Exactly. The basic instruction of survival: Figure out what is going to kill you first, then fix it. Repeat as necessary.

I have a modification on this topic and would like to hear what others think:

I am interested in water survival. If you were in Steve Callahan’s place on his raft 800 miles out to sea in the south Pacific, would you carry water first or a shaving mirror? If you could only carry one or the other. Similar question: would you carry water or a container of gasoil (presumably for lighting signal fires)? The question I guess is, which is more important: water or visual signaling tools?

I am trying to pack the lightest kit I can and am having to make weight vs priority decisions.

Thanks!

Gene

water is the most important of the two, otherwise you would probably die before you would get the chance to use the signal mirror.

This is a variation of 'penny wise and pound foolish.' To begin with forget a shaving mirror and invest in the finest dedicated signal mirror money can buy. The few ounces provide a superior, failproof and proactive means to effect possible rescue. The few ounces of water will do what longterm?

I see the point. But, given an adequate amount of water: say a five gallon jug of water, would you prioritize water over a signaling device -- given Steve Callahan's situation: South Pacific, 800 nm from land?

Many thanks,

Gene

That's what I was thinking...because given the worst case scenario: 800 miles from land, South Pacific, where there is very little shipping or air traffic...who are you going to signal?

many thanks,

Gene

Airplanes, both commercial and military, fly all over the place. Granted, you need water to survive, but without rescue the above mentioned five gallons of water isn't going to last very long anyway. I can not envision having five gallons of water, at eight pounds per gallon, and not having a signal mirror weighing ounces...

Yeah...normally I would be right on with that...but I checked that area for commercial flights -- 2 per day @ 35,000 feet. That's not a lot to hope for. There are also no military flights flying in that area (figure 800+ miles west of Peru). Helicopters won't go out that far. There are no shipping lines through that area...they all travel great-circle route north of there.

When I asked the Kon-Tiki museum if they thought the men on Kon-Tiki would have been rescued had they lost sail power--they laughed. They said, "if they had lost the sail they would not have been rescued by another vessel. They would have had trouble holding the course but if they had been lucky, then they would have moved with the current and got there alive."

There's just no one out there to signal to. Better off having extra water and hoping you are in the current.

Gene

For the old fashioned folks who like the wilderness.


A good knife preferably non folder. i.e. Helle Odel
A Bacho Laplander.
A map and Compass and pacer beads. i.e. Silva Field 7.
A lightweight titanium cooking Pot or kettle and folding titanium Spork. i.e. Snowpeak or MSR or Primus Kettle.
A Swedish firesteel equivalent i.e. Ultimate Survival Blastmatch with a couple Ultimate Survival Wet Tinders.
A box of NATO lifeboat matches with striker pad
A Silva or Brunton Helios Stormproof Lighter.
A small box of hexamine tablets i.e. 6 ESBIT tabs with a an Esbit Ti folder stove.
A packet of Tea Bags and Whitener etc.
A Citronella Candle.
A Signal Mirror and Whistle.
A fishing kit.
A Sewing kit.
A Small first aid kit.
A laminated plastic water carrier bag and sterilization tablets i.e Katadyn MP1.
A Steripen Adventurer with Solar Charger.
A millbank Bag.
A mosquito head net.
A flexible Wire Saw
A MPV poncho with a length of 550 Paracord.
A length of stainless steel Wire.
A small bar of soap.
A compact BCB toothbrush and small tube of toothpaste.
A Fenix P1D Cree LED torch with a spare lithium Cell and Nitze Headstrap.
A Exped skylight mini solar LED torch or a Betalight
A Shemagh.
A couple pages of waterproof writing paper and fisher Space pen refill.
A small roll of Duct Tape.
A set of Goretex socks and Goretex lined leather pittard Gloves
All kept in a Snugpak Response Pak.


Or for those not really into the wilderness.

A GPS
A Sat Phone
A Platinum Credit Card.

"...There are also no military flights flying in that area (figure 800+ miles west of Peru)..."

I'm just guessing here, I was a wing nut, not a swabbie, but aircraft carriers go all kinds of places, and they always have aircraft in the air, doing no telling what. I would throw my mirror in, just in case. It won't displace much water...

i'm with OBG on taking a mirror..i had no idea of how many
flights there were over my wilderness canoeing area untill
i noticed their running lights at nite..

Water
some water
and some more water.

Right...and I guess the point that you've convinced me of is with a mirror, at least you have a chance.

Many thanks on the posts!

Gene