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#79941 - 12/18/06 12:01 AM Re: Missing Climbers on Oregon's Mount Hood
jshannon Offline
Addict

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 647
Loc: North Texas
CNN reports:

One of three climbers missing for more than a week on Oregon's Mount Hood has been found dead, a sheriff's spokesman says.

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#79942 - 12/18/06 06:55 AM Re: Missing Climbers on Oregon's Mount Hood
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
One body found in a snow cave not far from the first one:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003482394_webclimbers17.html

"HOOD RIVER, Ore. – Teams looking for three missing climbers on Mount Hood found a body after searching a second snow cave near the summit on Sunday, an official said.

"We have found one deceased at this point," said Pete Hughes, a spokesman for the Hood River County Sheriff's Office.

He said the body had not yet been identified.

Marc Smith, another spokesman for the sheriff's office, said the body had not yet been retrieved from the 11,239-foot mountain. A colleague of Smith, Karl Tesch, had said the body had been taken by helicopter to Hood River. But Smith said that information was incorrect.

"I have confirmed the body is still on the mountain," Smith said.

The body was found in a snow cave — but not the one that was first searched earlier on Sunday, officials said.

"Our hearts are going out to the families right now," said Capt. Mike Braibish, spokesman for the Oregon National Guard.

The second cave was located in the same area as the first snow cave, officials said.

Braibish said rescuers would be coming off the mountain early Sunday evening and will review the information gathered today before making tomorrow's plans.

"We remain hopeful," Braibish said. "We are going to still collect information and pursue the rescue of the two other climbers."

A sleeping bag, ice axes and rope were found in the first snow cave, said another sheriff's office spokesman, Sgt. Gerry Tiffany.

Tiffany said earlier Sunday after finding the first cave that another snow cave was likely. It is believed that both caves are in the region where missing climber Kelly James made a distress call with his cell phone to relatives a week ago.

Taking advantage of clear skies and a sharp drop in the wind, rescuers focused on the first cave Sunday after a helicopter spotted a rope laid out in a Y-shape, which climbers often use to signal their location.

Footprints were also found at the site. Tiffany said the prints appeared to head up the mountain, toward the summit but were blown out by the wind at higher points.

Weather conditions have been harsh since the three were reporting missing eight days ago, with heavy snow fall and wind gusts of up to 100 mph. The snow stopped Saturday, but wind up to 50 mph blew the fresh snow, hampering visibility. Skies were blue Sunday, the wind was still, and temperatures at the 11,239-foot summit were reported near zero degrees.

Searchers dug through the first cave, about 300 feet below the summit, to ensure no one was there and took the equipment, which officials will examine for clues.

Tiffany said its clear that whoever stayed there "hunkered down in the snow and they survived there for a while" and that they climbed out and could have made a snow cave elsewhere.

(The NY Times says the deceased is Kelly James.)

Sue

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#79943 - 12/18/06 01:00 PM Re: Missing Climbers on Oregon's Mount Hood
jshannon Offline
Addict

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 647
Loc: North Texas
The body is said to be Kelly James.

R.I.P.


Edited by jshannon (12/18/06 04:05 PM)

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#79944 - 12/18/06 04:18 PM Rescue questions. Possible agenda.
AROTC Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 604
Loc: Manhattan
I'm a personal responcibility man myself. I think people who go up mountains have a responcibility to protect themselves, and since SAR is a reality that isn't going away, I think people also have a responcibility to the SAR personnel. Legislation isn't going to do that, even legislation designed to put more responcibility on the climbers by requiring them to pay for rescue. People who are afraid of being rescued for whatever reason may hide and endanger themselves and more rescuers. Blackhawks cost about $6 million. How much insurance can you take out? Enough for a helicopter? How bout $32 million for a Chinook?

I don't know what the answer is. Or even what the question is? Or even if there is a problem. Yes, there have been a couple of highly publicized rescues lately, a few fatalities and occassionally a SAR member is injured or dies. But how many people actually have to be rescued each year? Does anyone know? I'm sure the number would seem high. Probably a few thousand. But how many people go out each year, more importantly how many times? A few million? A few tens of millions. That many people walking to the bathroom is going to result in a few fatalities let alone going out into the woods or mountains. DO the rescues really constitute a problem or are they just a natural side effect of people doing any sort of activity. Compare the relative number of people who die during outdoor activities today with the number of mountain men who died. Did personal responcibility keep those people alive?

I don't know these questions, or what the best questions should be. But I think there is a lot bigger discussion over these last two cases, Kim and the Mt. Hood climbers, because of the media coverage. Every other week someone posts a newspaper article about someone being found alive or a body found and the discussion lasts a couple days at the most. Does someone in the media have an agenda that they are useing these cases to support? This isn't a conspiracy theory. But an observation. These cases have received a huge amount of media coverage then those in the past. I can't see anything special about the events themselves, so the question arises "Has something changed somewhere else that is affecting the media coverage?" Just something to think on.


Edited by AROTC (12/18/06 04:20 PM)
_________________________
A gentleman should always be able to break his fast in the manner of a gentleman where so ever he may find himself.--Good Omens

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#79946 - 12/19/06 04:07 AM Re: Rescue questions. Possible agenda.
Simon Offline


Registered: 04/24/06
Posts: 398
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
Blackhawks cost about $6 million. How much insurance can you take out? Enough for a helicopter? How bout $32 million for a Chinook?


What would it cost to replace that C-130 gunship that they used to scan Mt. Hood for body heat? About $190 million each for an AC-130U Spooky model, $132.4 million if it was an older AC-130H Spectre. AND that's in 2001 dollars. Kinda impossible for one person to insure against. You have a real point there AROTC
_________________________
Me, a vegetarian? My set of teeth came with canines.

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#79947 - 12/19/06 07:56 AM Re: Missing Climbers on Oregon's Mount Hood
DougM Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 48
The cemetaries are full of people who take unnecessary chances
( and those who have to try to rescue them).

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#79948 - 12/19/06 07:46 PM Re: Missing Climbers on Oregon's Mount Hood
MissouriExile Offline
dedicated member

Registered: 11/22/05
Posts: 125
Loc: SW Missouri / SE Wisconsin
Being totally inexperienced in climbing at extreme altitudes I have a question.
If they had stuck together in a snow cave with their equipment why wouldn't they have been able to survive?
At the risk of second guessing I am trying to learn from their experience. I'm assuming it would have been better to stick together in shelter, am I wrong?

Jon

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#79950 - 12/19/06 10:31 PM Re: Missing Climbers on Oregon's Mount Hood
AROTC Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 604
Loc: Manhattan
The history books are also full of people who took unnescessary risks and did something great. Its an unnescessary risk to quit your job and start your own business. A lot of people quit and go back to working for someone, some end up building empires. Same goes for the people who rediscovered the Americas or explored them. Same goes for a lot of people. I assume if you're here you aren't your average man in the grey flannel suit.

One of these guys is dead, and someone could die rescuing the other two. Far be it for me, who lacks all the facts, say the man was under prepared or overly risky. The rescuers aren't the same as firemen dying in an arson fire. They are pitting their knowledge and skill against the mountain same as the climbers who they are trying to rescue. They waited for the weather to clear before venturing up.

"To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to..." (Hamlet)
_________________________
A gentleman should always be able to break his fast in the manner of a gentleman where so ever he may find himself.--Good Omens

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#79951 - 12/19/06 10:45 PM Re: Missing Climbers on Oregon's Mount Hood
Stu Offline
I am not a P.P.o.W.
Old Hand

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: Finger Lakes of NY State
I understand this was used as a epitaph for a solo climber of MT. McKinley, who did not return from his attempt.

Robert Service

The Men That Don't Fit In
There's a race of men that don't fit in,
A race that can't stay still;
So they break the hearts of kith and kin,
And they roam the world at will.
They range the field and they rove the flood,
And they climb the mountain's crest;
Theirs is the curse of the gypsy blood,
And they don't know how to rest.

If they just went straight they might go far;
They are strong and brave and true;
But they're always tired of the things that are,
And they want the strange and new.
They say: "Could I find my proper groove,
What a deep mark I would make!"
So they chop and change, and each fresh move
Is only a fresh mistake.

And each forgets, as he strips and runs
With a brilliant, fitful pace,
It's the steady, quiet, plodding ones
Who win in the lifelong race.
And each forgets that his youth has fled,
Forgets that his prime is past,
Till he stands one day, with a hope that's dead,
In the glare of the truth at last.

He has failed, he has failed; he has missed his chance;
He has just done things by half.
Life's been a jolly good joke on him,
And now is the time to laugh.
Ha, ha! He is one of the Legion Lost;
He was never meant to win;
He's a rolling stone, and it's bred in the bone;
He's a man who won't fit in.
_________________________
Our most important survival tool is our brain, and for many, that tool is way underused! SBRaider
Head Cat Herder

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#79952 - 12/19/06 10:49 PM Re: Missing Climbers on Oregon's Mount Hood
Stu Offline
I am not a P.P.o.W.
Old Hand

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: Finger Lakes of NY State
I wonder about the found cell phone being "soaked". I wonder if water had collected in the bottom of the snow cave, and the late injured climber was in water, and not dry.
_________________________
Our most important survival tool is our brain, and for many, that tool is way underused! SBRaider
Head Cat Herder

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