When DD1 was 1-2 years old I used to pull her and gear around RenFests all day at in a RadioFlyer wagon with big, inflatable tires. The faires take place in unpaved areas but the wagon could go over just about any terrain.

The downside though was I spent the whole day in a strange twisted shape to pull the wagon by it's handle. By the end of the day my back was very sore from this continous twist. I think a better solution would be to rig up some sort of pulling harness (with quick releases!) that would allow you to pull the wagon like a draft horse would rather than one hand/arm alway behind you.

-Blast

You almost sound like your saying to make a modern day travois system.. but instead of a big well trained dog or horse use yourself to pull it.. that sounds exhausting but plausible..

When I first started pondering such things as bugging-out, bugging-in, and all things survival I began to look at dogs for protection, hunting, companionship and so on.

Later, when I injured my back I started reading about draft dogs.

A well trained draft dog and cart could be something to think about depending on the type of terrain in your area.

When people think about dogs doing draft work, usually the first and about the only thing that comes to mind are sled dogs. However, there are a bunch of different breeds in a wide variety of regions of the world that are used as draft animals.

Of course that means you have an extra mouth to feed, which could be more than you want. And you have to train the dog as well, of course.

Just a thought.

I've taken my 7 year old on day hikes for a few years now and recently started bringing my 3 year old along. I got the two of them to do a 2 mile loop a few weeks ago. It can be incredibly frustrating. Two kids and one adult is all about getting the kids motivated and moving at the same pace, which is almost impossible. But with just one kid, it's easier.

Still, a 2-3 year old just don't have an attention span to make much of a hike. I too have used my wife's Maya wrap sling to carry both of our kids when they were < 1 year old, but not now that they're bigger. A backpack carrier might work for the 3 year old, but I can carry him on my shoulders for at least half an hour at a time before he wants down. If I had to really move the two of them any long distance, I'd have to break out a jogging stroller for the 3 year old and I'd pretty quickly wish I had a double for both of them. I've had a jogging stroller over some pretty rough terrain, but they're all pretty worthless in soft sand.

I think the biggest thing is to get out and walk now with the kid. You'll learn what works for them. My 3 year old says he hates hiking but if he knows (or thinks) there's a water cooler at the end of the trail, he'll double-time it just so he can pour water on his head. My 7 year old can get bogged down picking up sticks or anything else within reach, but if I break out a stopwatch and time us between markers, she'll haul ass.

The terrain a cart can handle is largely a function of the diameter and width of the wheels. Larger diameters can handle higher obstacles while wider wheels work better on softer ground. I've worked with the difference narrow wheels make with hand trucks loaded with fire wood over the years. They have a tendency to sink where pneumatic wheels spread the weight enough to work.

The terrain a cart can handle is also determined by the width of its track and the size of the trail.

While my wife and I have hauled our kids around in a wagon, I wouldn't do it in a bug out situation only for the fact that I can't see them behind me.

A sling and a messenger type bag seems to work for us as they both go kind of cross body. The bag goes on the bottom, then the kid in a sling. Easier on the kids legs that way too versus with a backpack.

We went on a five mile or so hike where the 2 year old just didn't want to walk. My wife and I took turns carrying her. My wife used the sling and alternately had our daughter go on her back and I just carried her in front since I had the heavier pack. My wife's messenger bag did not interfere with carrying our daughter with the sling or on her back while I could only carry her in front.

With young kids, it will depend on them whether they want to go or not. On our earlier hike, the two year old trucked it uphill for about a mile to get to our destination. But after we rested and waited for the last mom and child to make it up, she got really tired and fell asleep and we had to carry her back down. The five year old is a trooper though and will slog through almost whereever we take her. The only time she will complain is toward the very end of a long hike where her feet might hurt. Then I will carry her for a quarter mile or half a mile and she can usually finish.

It really helps when your children are vocal about things that might bother them. It helps in figuring out how much we can do.

Oh, I also find that kids (and most adults too) need frequent enforced rest stops to rehydrate and maybe snack. Snacks are huge morale boosters for kids.

I was thinking of something based on either a two wheeled garden cart or a modified hand truck. As far as trying it with a wagon (Radio Flier type) on anything but the best surfaces: No Way No How. BTDT with firewood and other loads. It won't work. Unless it's got sides & a wide track they're too unstable.



Most definitely. You can compensate some for the track width by paying attention to how you load the cart. We used to use a hand truck to haul trees to the end of the row for loading on a trailer. The rows were running across about a 30 degree hill.

Hi,

Ah, welcome to life as the primary caregiver of a toddler / preschooler. You bring up several issues.

1) Carrying your child
There are a *ton* of baby carriers for carrying your baby or child on your body. When carrying an older baby or a toddler for a long time, your best bet is a back carrier. Front carry is really only for small babies. Hip carry is useful, but difficult to sustain for a long time. There are "frame" carriers which tend to be big and have lots of straps and buckles. There are also slings which are smaller, and can fit a wider range of ages. I like the idea of slings. The Maya wrap is one of the better known slings that adjust to a large range of child sizes. Another sling that has gotten good reviews is the Ergo Baby Carrier (http://www.ergobabycarrier.com/). I have a Mei Tai, and I like it as it packs down to pratically nothing, yet can support a newborn up to a 40+ lb child (if the adult is strong enough). Keep in mind that there is a learning curve to wearing and adjusting any carrier, so if you want one, try it out and use it several times before you really need it.

2) Child's walking ability
You might be underestimating how much walking your child will be able to do in only a few years. A five year old can trek for quite a distance when used to such exercise, well-fed and hydrated, and properly motivated.

3) Caring for a child
A big step in helping *you* care for your child is teaching *her* how to care for herself. It starts with simple things like teaching her to dress herself, put on her own jacket, carry her own small bag, ask for food when she's hungry, entertain herself without electronics, follow urgent commands immediately (e.g. *stop*), try new foods, drink mostly water (vs. juice), and eventually to go potty by herself, etc. The less time you have to take care of these little essentials for her, the more time you have to take care of everything else, be it an ordinary day or an emergency situation.

4) Walking out vs. bugging in. vs. getting help
Realistically, if you have a small child, odds are that if an emergency happens, you would be better off bugging in or getting help versus walking out on your own.

I think that the single most important thing that you can do to be prepared with a small child is to cultivate the friendship of other local parents who share your views and have children the same age as your child. They will be able to provide you with advice and support that will be useful in emergencies as well as daily life.

-Kuovonne

Picture this: Florida in any season, on foot, rough terrain, wet ground (rain or swamp), mosquitoes, and snakes. And, unless this is a purely personal disaster, law enforcement is stretched too thin or has broken down, and there are packs of human trash on the prowl, so you would have to be careful, and probably hide at least part of the time.

Now add a child (or two or three) and/or infirm elderly people to care for into the mix. It seems to me that bugging out on foot would be (excuse me, this isn't personal) the stupidest thing I could possibly come up with.

As long as you're thinking about this, you might as well plan ahead. List all the possible problems you can imagine, from most likely to least-likely-but-who-knows. And decide the best way to handle them.

The two best plans would probably be to leave as soon as you know trouble is coming (with a definite place to go), or prepare to hunker down and ride it out. And you'd probably want to keep your options open, in case the situation changed drastically and you had to do the exact opposite of your initial plan.

Sue, imagining having to run with just a dog, 6 cats & 4 chickens.... Bleeech!

I've been walking with my daughter on the local state park hikeing trail since she was 10-11 months old (as soon as she began walking), on good days we are up to 2 miles now at two years old.. thats in 2-2 and a half hours though..

She is just shy of being fully potty trained (waits too long to speak up mostly) tries very hard to dress herself and tie her shoes etc.. and god help you if you try to take her purse.. and she understands and minds 'halt' as 'stop, your in danger, that will hurt you, stand still I'll come and get you, hold my hand'

There is now a mandatory category 1 evac in this area for hurricanes (the major recurring bug out in this area), not that I forsee haveing to walk with leaving nearly in 'front of the wave' early in a car, but... just in case...

This will take some time for me as my estranged wife sabotaged my relationship with everyone I know that fits that bill, shortly before she decided to abandon my daughter and I to run off with another man who has 10 kids by His own wife, by slandering me to them.. but thats another story not for this forum. *bitter grumble*