Yes, as I was saying, it's hard to understand just how difficult it is until you've spent a little time out there.

My hat is off to all the searchers. It's truely a very difficult job.

-john

While I agree (heck, I'm one of them), recall that you need at least some food to have enough energy to burn fat instead of muscle.

-john

I'm not familiar with the exact term but I am familiar with the concept of undressing when you are confused with the temperature.

I noted with some interest when I first read the story about what the temperatures and locale were like because I would compare that to my local conditions. Every year, people attempt to walk out, away from their vehicle and to safety and sadly do not make it and pass away.

About 4-5 weeks ago, a similar local story where a native fellow went off road and got stuck in a snow bank (recent first snows of the year) and decided to walk out. They found his body about 2-3 kms away from his vehicle, the temperature was "only -5*C" but he was inadequately dressed. Not knowing when to stay with your vehicle or being poorly equipped often leads to tragedy.

Contrast that with 2 hunters who were on a gravel road (not far from where I was also travellling that day) got caught in a snowstorm and their vehicle went off the road. They did the smart thing and stayed with the vehicle and kept warm by running the engine and were found the next day. Happy ending.

Now - back to James Kim. Their vehicle was stuck off road in a infrequently travelled area. And they DID stay with the vehicle for several days until ultimately they ran out of fuel and their measly provisions and still were not found. He made the go/no go decision to leave even though he was poorly equipped. In hindsight, yes it was the wrong decision, but at the time, he and his family were probably desperate and he was weakened by lack of food. Being in their situation, most people would have done the same thing as he.

Hear Hear!

We should all pack our vehicle kits with appropriate gear for the terrain and weather to be encountered. As I live on the Canadian prairies where the roads are sparsely used and the weather is more severe that most Americans can even imagine let alone have experienced - it pays to be adequately prepared.

In addition to the items you listed in your Florida kit - a Canadian kit would include things like a shovel, road salt or kitty litter or traction aids, tow kit, blankets, candles or other source of heat, charcoal warmers, food, etc. for starters. A cell phone is great but if you just happen to be in a weak/no signal area it isn't going to help you much. A PLB would be great but with every rescue there is always the abuse/misuse of this worthwhile item.

Why? The vast majority of vehicles aren't sold with a GPS and judging from the specs of the particular vehicle (a link was posted earlier), I think it was unlikely he had one. I personnaly know only 1 person who even has this in their vehicle.

A GPS is not a substitute for a map and orientating yourself properly to it.

Probably because as an editor at Cnet he was very likely a gadget-guy. And probably had the income to spend on such gadgets.

As an aside, it is possible he had one. A built in GPS may not do much good in a situation like this since he couldn't take it with him. Likewise, a road oriented GPS likely wouldn't have things like Forest Service roads. I was under the impression they were on a FS road.

Again, lots of food for thought.

-john

Very sad, I know we were all hoping for a miracle here. I pray for Mr. Kim's family and for James, despite any mistake he made, and he made several, he tried his best to look after his family in a dire situation. Very commendable in my book.
I hope this raises interest in preparedness to someone, maybe a few tragedies can be prevented.

Also note that a GPS whether in the vehicle or hand held may also be quite useless in rugged heavily treed terrain. They need a signal from a min. of 2 satellites to get a position and the more satellites the better and more accurate they are.

That's why I say, make your first method of orientation be your map. They are a whole lot cheaper than a GPS and are available practically everywhere. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I've been following this story really closely also. I'm really sad to hear that he didn't survive. I can relate what he was going through, and believe it or not, I think I would have done almost the same things as he had done. I actually make many of the same "mistakes" that he had made, and will probably continue to do so. I usually don't have a set itinerary, I regularly take backroads whenever possible, and I almost always deviate from my original plan. Honestly, I can't imagine ever doing it differnently. It would be pretty boring to go through life following the same path as everyone else, always following the same routine. Almost all of my memorable experiences have come from deviating from the routine and exploring the unknown. This doesn't mean i go out and take dangerous risks, but I also don't fool myself into think I can be fully prepared for every possible outcome. Nobody can be prepared for EVERY possible scenario, life is about taking calculated risks, if you don't want to feel unprepared you'd probably never leave your house.

About the only difference is I probably carry quite a bit more stuff than he might have in that same situation, and I don't have a family to worry about. If I did have a family, then I would have to adjust some of my priorities accordingly.

In this particular situation, I can almost follow his thinking right down to the moment he got stuck, because I think almost the same way. He was out visiting friends or relatives, and was taking a vacation with his family. On the way back home, he picks up a map (or looks up directions on the internet) and decides to head toward his destination. He may or may not have checked the weather, but decides to take the route shown on his map. I'm still not clear whether he knew that the road was closed for the winter. I'm assuming he probably didn't know, because if he did most likely he would not have continued. Some people have critiqued him for taking a different route, or straying from his itinerary. I'm thinking maybe he just wanted to drive a more scenic route, maybe he thought it was shorter, maybe the map showed it as going through. Either way, I normally don't call friends relatives when I'm on vacation just because I decide I've had a change of plans. I may give an itinerary, but more often than not it's just a rough and very conservative itinerary, because there will always be unforseeable delays and I normally don't like to vacation on a timetable, always trying to keep on schedule, or maybe he just forgot. I do that quite often, so I understand how he could get easily himself into that situation.

Even though some people might not think differently. I think James and his family were reasonably prepared for travel. Why? Because he was able to keep a family of 4 alive for 9 days out in the wilderness. If you were to equate that to a single person, that's over a month worth of surviving (maybe less since two of them were children). I say reasonably prepared, because most people are not thinking of spending a week out in the wilderness while on a family vacation, so to say he didn't have an axe, food for a week, winter clothes, 4 season tent, showshoes, snowmobile, etc.., is being a little too critical (from some other forum's comments I've seen). It's easy to say what we would bring if we were in that situation knowing what we would know now, but how much stuff would people actually take on vacation with them, especially with all of the normal stuff for 2 little kids in a small station wagon? Either way, I would NOT say he was completely UNPREPARED for travel. How many people here think they could keep a family of 4 alive for that length of time with what they normally carry?

After seeing the outcome, everyone would agree that he had made the wrong decision, but it's hard to say what exactly is the right decision in a case like this. Being in that same situation, I think I might also have tried to walk out and look for help. Generally, it is usually a better idea to stay with the car, but I don't think you can make a blanket statement to say you should ALWAYS stay in the car. He was there for 7 days and no signs of rescue, how much longer is he expected stay in the car and just wait while his family is probably close to dying? I'm pretty sure most people in that same situation, not knowing whether people were searching for them, or whether they had called of the search, probably would have done the same thing. Just like that family that was trapped in the RV for 17 days up in Oregon. They stayed put for 17 days, nobody came to rescue them, in fact, I think the searches were called off and they were assumed dead. It was only because 2 of them walked out for help that they were found. In a case like this, there are just too many variables to be able to have a strict set of rules on what should and should not be done. It could have easily been a different story had he found help, or had he stayed with the car and the whole family dies of hypothermia.

In this case it was just a series of wrong (not necessarily bad,) decisions and unfortunate luck. I wish it could have turned out differnetly for the family.

Boy, if that helicopter pic was from the search, that doesn't look like a
place I would want to be long lining.

A sad story about a young local man years ago. He was missing from his home,
police and family looked everywhere. That fall his jeep and body were found
just down the hill from his house after the leaves fell. Apparently he had
some sort of stroke or siezure and his jeep rolled down the hill, off the
road into some bushes and no one thought to look there.

He stayed with his vehicle for months!!

You need to stay put, and, as Ms. Kim did, you need to use some sort of
attraction as best you can.