A lot of people also think that AWD and 4WD are the same thing. They are not. AWD is basically a car that has power to all of the drive wheels. Real 4WD is a cat of a different color. 4WD has totally different gearing, and can (but there is no guarantee will) get you out of situations that will leave an AWD vehicle hopelessly stuck...

While I understand you are trying to say that all AWD/4WD systems are created equal, I think we should leave it at that. Certainly, I do agree that the term AWD has certain implications and 4WD has certain implications, however, I think marketing and public opinion has blurred the definitions so much you cannot make any significant conclusions based on the terms.

It should be noted, that 2WD and FWD could mean ONE or two drive wheels and the the ability to drive the second wheel can vary greatly based on the impliemention.

It should be noted that AWD and 4WD could mean as little as TWO drive wheels (a front and a rear), or three, or four. The ability to drive the different wheels varys greatly based on implemenation.

Even if a AWD or 4WD can drive all four wheels, it may do it differently which may be better suited for different situations.

As suggested, some AWD/4WD systems have the ability to switch into a lower gearing.

And of course, some systems are combinations of the various approaches suggested here.

One thing people overlook is tires. The best AWD/4WD system still touches the road with four small patches of rubber. Tires are a set of compromises, and work better in different conditions. Typically most cars and SUVs have tires ill suited for ice and snow. Tires warrent a lot of consideration IMO.

As Susan points out, even with the best AWD/4WD system (and the best tires) you can't cheat the laws of physics. If something is icy, you can slide right off, despite the best traction. If the snow is too deep, at some point you cannot apply enough force to the ground to move forward no matter what.

There appears to be an interesting theme in this thread where people are thought irrational for preparing "more than considered normal".

People think I'm nuts for having tire chains for both the front and rear of our Jeep, despite having a very good AWD system than can drive all wheels effectively and having good tires.

They'd probably think it even odder that I still assume that I can get stuck.

-john

No problem. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(Around my area, tens of millions of people travel to Vegas every year, and any one of them has the possibility of getting stuck in the desert for a week. Should they all carry a weeks worth of water for a carload of people, some 40-80 gallons?)
When I drove for Coach USA I carried enough water for all my pax (47-55) if we ever broke down traveling from SLC-LVG, we had enough water for 2-3 days the host usually had snacks ie: candybars peanuts etc but the longest we were broke down for was 6 hours (so really lucky). I know about what ducktapeguy speaks of I have driven the lonely backroads of the Western US for 15 yrs US 6 comes to mind (luckly at night) James was right in some respects and wrong in others but lets all learn from this and carry on Thanks Mike

"...you are trying to say that all AWD/4WD systems are created equal..."

Actuall, I was trying to say that they are not created equal. I shouldn't try to write late at night, I tend to make more mistakes, leave out more information, and not get my point across.

Good point on the tires. Most people have regular street tires on their AWD and 4WD vehicles, they don't want the sometimes rougher ride and road noise of a more aggressive tread. On our 4WD Chevy Tracker we have AT tires (mudders are a little much for our every day ride), and like you we carry two sets of chains (real chains, not cables) year round. Chains can help you get out of mud as well as snow/ice. Plus a shovel. We would carry a Hi Lift jack too if we had the room.

I have actually talked to people who own 4WD SUV's and do not know how to put the vehicle into 4WD!!!

Oops! I 'not created equal' is what I meant to say. I guess we both suffer from post-while-tired syndrome!



Yah, we have a set of vbar chains which are heavy duty and have an extra grippy bar welded on. Actually, we also have a pair of sets of diamond sytle too which are a bit more road friendly.



You might consider a tirfor/griphoist style hand winch.

-john

Larger: www.equipped.org/graphics/carkit_lg.jpg

No list

Glad you decided to invest in a PLB. Happy to help in that.

Doug,

I hope everyone in this thread reads your blog post. I couldn't agree more and I seriously hope those on this thread take it to heart. What continues to worry me about this thread is the fact that some here still don't get some of the basic premises in your blog post. It worries me because they may die someday. My dad, one of the best woodsmen I ever knew (and I've known a few), often said to me, when as a headstrong young man I wasn't listening, "It's one thing not to know, it's another thing not to listen to those who do." When I was about 21 I learned what he meant - and I started listening!

Keep up the good work!

MSR Multi Fuel Backpacker Stove

I used to backpack a lot and after much research bought a Mountain Safety Research backpacking stove at a mountaineering store. I have had it for more than twenty years now.

When I started flying cross country trips in small planes I got in the habit of taking it as part of my survival kit as well as to use for airplane camping at small airports or remote airstrips. I also carry it in the car with my gear when I am traveling. Even if I don't plan to camp I generally carry a pretty complete kit.

Doug's advice has been invaluable over the years in encouraging me to be thoughtful about taking along appropriate gear. So now I guess I'll have to buy a PLB! I have been considering it since the ELT in the aircraft is so minimal, and doesn't help me when I am hiking or in the car.

I strongly recommend the MSR stove. It is very compact but puts out a lot of heat. It can boil a quart of water in a fraction of the time needed by most other backpack stoves. It has a built in flint striker used to light it. The kit includes an alternate orifice so it can burn all liquid fuels, including leaded gasoline. The kit also includes an orifice cleaning wire, a wrench, a small plastic bottle to use for priming fuel to help start the stove in extreme cold, and a small pot that houses the stove when not in use.

When camping I also usually take along a larger camp pot with lid, packed with a bunch of my gear.

The stove does not have a fuel tank. Instead it has a pump unit that replaces the screw cap of a standard backpacker's one pint fuel bottle. A bottle is included and the stove instructions are printed on the bottle. This makes the stove very stable because instead of being tall the burner sits on the ground or table and a tube goes over to the pump and tank, which is oriented horizontally.

I thought about how the family used the car engine to stay warm. That burns a lot of fuel and they eventually ran out of gas.

The backpack stove, with proper ventilation, would have kept the car warm far longer on a tank of fuel. It is not recommended to use a stove in a tent or enclosed space, but in an emergency one could do so with caution.

Thus another item to bring on trips would be a small siphon tube capable of reaching into the fuel tank. It would have to be small because many tanks have baffles in the filler tube to foil the larger siphon tubes.

The stove can also be used to melt snow for drinking water if no water is nearby. The instructions note that one bottle of fuel will melt enough snow to make 24 quarts of water, and will also bring to a boil 24 quarts of cold water.

Rol

Would you please post a larger photot of the car survival kit you placed on your blog? It looks very interesting.

Thanks