Sometimes I try to have some converts to the prep "religion" and sometimes I question the effort and its goals or effects on really prepared folks.

For instance, some folks have warned of buying ready-made emergency kits in orange-colored bacpacks. They advise something that doesnt stand out. Fair enough. But if other people around me are similarly knowledgeable ( that survival kits should be in packs with darker colors or that a BOV should be less-than attractive truck, they will attack me and take my wreck-looking truck ( which is indeed survival-capable ) and the neutral looking fanny pack that has ( and they know it has ) enough equipment to help me through a 72-hour emergency.

Maybe if they were left to their ignorance, they will keep their impression of how a BOV should look like ( flashy and shiny with BIG tires ), and will still think a survival knife will have to be a mini-sword and a kit of any usefulness has to be an expedition-sized backpack. They wil lmiss my humble undesireable worthless-looking ME.

This may fall on the edge of ethical / moral areas. But I am only saying that I am not hiding anything from people. I am not hiding that a hurricane is coming so that I get to safety first. I am only leaving ignorant people to the ignorance they have CHOSEN for themseleves and well.. yes, benefitting from their ignorance.

Go ahead and tell me how mean I am.
Or am I ????
What do you think ?

Same question about knowlegeable or not. If everyone became expert in survival, thenm EVERYONE will run to the same hill or mountain with the same rifle and pistol and with the same plan.

People who are not prepared will wander in different directions and many wuill head to shelters and wait for someones aid. That ( in my opinion ) means better luck and survivability for the prepared who heads to the hills.

Agree or not ?

I feel bad already for thinking that way.
But someone has got to throw this question.

I don't know how far that sort of thinking will actually get you. Humans are social animals, and for the most part work best in groups. No one person can possibly know everything that could conceivably come in handy in a survival situation. Imagine bugging out. You pass a person stranded by the side of the road who clearly needs a ride. You leave them to die. Turns out they were a surgeon, or a master carpenter, or a mechanic, and later on you needed medical help, or you need to build a cabin, or your car breaks down. Seems to me the best course of action is to help where feasable as long as it's safe to do so. Not only is it good for the soul but it just might be good for survival as well. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I was feeling bad , you made me feel worse. But really, that is not what I meant.

The subject of this thread deals with
(a) what we do NOW, not what we do after a disaster.
(b) it deals with educating and showing others , not helping people in need of help.

It has to do with this : Do I go NOW to my neighbor and educate him about being prepared and showing him how to survive and all about techniques and tools ..etc. ? I would in many cases , but there are people who are less than honest. And if I suggest to them to keep some items in their offfice desk or such places, I may just find him in an emergency looking all over my own desk or office room looking for prep stuff..

This thread asks if we should educate people who (generally) may turn to predators in an emergency. Educating them will - in a way- just help them to find my possissions in less time, and to recognize what tool is for what purpose , thus making him decide to take it. For example, if he is left uneducated, he may find in my desk drawer ( or car glove compartment) a whistle, a small mirror, and few other such items. He may just leave them. If he is educated, he will recognize their usefulness for the situation and will take them.

He will take that large trash bag too if he knows it is can become a "raincoat".

There are many different scenarios for such subject too.
Suppose you find a little hidden creek or trail that you can follow in an emergency and it will get you safely to the other side of the hil and away from danger. I dont tell my enighbor NOW, who is not prepared person anyway. This thread asks : do I have to tell him theat they way to safety is through that creek or trail, and then in an emergency find that trail choked with 100's of escapees who may even loot my survival positions ? Or do I quietly sneak up there and follow the trail / creek and pray for others to be as lucky and safe ??.

My question deals with TONNES of people , not a single helpless old person . If it was only my old neighbor I would even equip him / her with a BOB ot more. Maybe I'll try to grab him too in my bug out trip. But the problem is with groups and crowds and even sigle persons whose chatracters may be questionable in my opinion.

It seems to me at times that many unprepared people ( with the right/wrong type of mindset ) will just prefer to loot others in case of emergency. Telling them about the signs and means of preparedness is just helping them to recognize and prey on honest prepared folks who spent lots of time and money preparing.

I understand your point now, but I fail to see how keeping people in the dark about preparedness would eliminate or even reduce the the potential for people looting your possessions. Do you really think that desperate people bereft of gear are going to care that your BOB is drab or your car is a beater? And if you are worried about crowds and looters then save yourself the stress--they will be around whether you help a few poor souls beforehand or not. But by helping people prepare you might reduce that number by a few, or even gain some allies should the SHTF.

I agree with you buddy. But it all depends if you feel comfortable with those you are educating. It is like training someone to shoot. I will always make sure I am not training someone who may shoot me .

BTW are there any stats about people learning about preparedness ACTUALLY doing something to prepare ? It seems to me at times that they gain the knowledge of what PSK looks like, and in an emergency I really hope that very few (unprepared) folks around me know how many uses there are for the mini-roll of duct tape or bandana ..etc.

I dont want them in that state (unprepared in the middle of an an emergency) to know the value of what I am carrying.

As with all things, I can only speak for myself and only offer my humble opinion for consideration.

How many times have were heard “education is the key to success”? Perhaps I am naïve and have led a sheltered life (I doubt it though), but truly believe the vast majority of people are inherently good, not seeking to cause me harm or steal me blind. Yes, I do believe in the phrase “trust in God, but tie up your camel”, but I believe an educated and prepared person, is less of threat (yes, even in a disaster) to me, then one just living hand to mouth.

By educating and helping to prepare your friend, neighbor, etc. is that not just one less person that must rely upon others? I would think that having other like-minded persons who are educated and prepared to not only be self-sufficient following a disaster, but ones who may be in the position of not only helping others but might be able to help me and my family certainly outweighs any risk of becoming the victim of their greed or lack of preparedness (although knowledgeable about what is necessary to survive).

Pete

Without getting too heavy into religion or philosophy <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />, my goal in life is to try and live by an extension of the classic Golden Rule ? Do unto others as you would have others do unto you (I think that is correct or close enough <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />).

To-
Prefer they neighbor to thy self.

Life is too short to worry how long I will live, we all die sometime, but more importantly how well I lived my life and what positive impact I may have had on others.

Just my 2 cents, maybe this a little more for "Around the Campfire" <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />-
Pete

Interesting thread. My neighbors on either side know that I am prepared. So are they. We have an informal mutual aid pact. If TSHTF, I believe that we would be a very capable group. And, I have to sleep sometime, so it is good if someone is on watch while I sleep.

But I have known my neighbors for many years, and trust them. There are a couple of people in the neighborhood that we do not trust. We do not discuss our preparedness plans with them. They are on their own.

In my community, I help to teach CERT. The more people in town that have some water and food and a first aid kit, the better for all of us. But they don't know where I live, and will not be dropping by after "the big one".

So, maybe you can live in both worlds?

It seems that you are overthinking this a bit.

A nondescript backpack or vehicle is a good idea because it makes you look like everone else. It really doesn't help a criminal to know that a wise prepper will use a plain backpack, because he still can't tell the BOB from all the others packed with DVD collections and ipods.

I would hope that normal response (if any) to education about preparedness would be to consider preparing, not "Thanks! Now I know who to rob in an emergency."

The best way to ensure that your stuff doesn't get stolen is to have a take-charge attitude and a loaded firearm. There are much more important things to consider about your bug-out bag than color.

It can be impossible to educate the masses about stuff they don't want to contemplate. Trying ot herd cats? The government has been posting info on 72 hour kits for years, and other than an initial burst after a major catastrophe, they are usually ignored.

The only way an individual can make a difference is by becoming an "evangelical" to the cause. Personally, I find these people to be anoying, whether it is for vegans, religion, anti-guns, whatever. Anyone who trys to pull me out of my comfortable rut is anoying.

The best way to make a difference is one person at a time. Pick your opportunity, lead into it, if rejected - walk away from that conversation. If you get to the point where you are providing them info on your personal stashes or escape routes, I would assume that you know them well and trust them. If you don't know them well or trust them then you should keep that info to yourself and discuss prepardness in generalities. You can always say "I read that FEMA recommends................ and I need to do that myself sometime.............." That way they won't know to head your way looking for supplies at the last minute for a five finger discount.

Its always better if they decide for themselves to start to get ready than to be led or pushed.

Survival Of The Fittest. Sorry to everyone else, but I've put myself as my number one priority. If, and only if, it will not compromise me, then I'll gladly help someone who needs it. But I've put myself first.
-Kyle

Amen.

I agree with Packman. You cant help everyone, and some of those you help may decide they are more worthy than you of YOUR STUFF.

Me and mine first. I'll help if I can, but will NOT feel sorry if I cant.

Not everyone who is prepared belongs to the same school of thought. Some may run to the hills, some if knowledgable in urban survival and if the city is still there will choose to remain in the city.

An essential skill in urban survival is to look as uninviting to any potential thief as possible. Granted, it is possible someone may steel my 2WD sedan out of convenience. A car thief may want a fuel efficient vehicle. There is nothing about it in of its self which says I am a survivalist.

Jeanette Isabelle

Social invisibility is the best defense.

Jeanette Isabelle

I believe in teaching my congregation survival because when everything goes to . . . in a hand basket, in the house of G-d is where I want to be.

Jeanette Isabelle

Excuse me ! These are the same people who would not prepare even though they have a guarrantee that disaster will strike next month on the 14th! Their emergency plans include moving in with you & using your resources until "th' gummint" arrives to take care of them. The are like the Soviets: That which is theirs, remains theirs, & that which you possess is negotiable !!!!

Keeping people in the dark will not help. What will help is blending into the background. How a person blends in will relate directly to their surroundings. If you are in an environment where everyone wears a suit and tie then a suit and tie are a must for your survival preparation.

Jeanette Isabelle

I put together survival kits, spend time reading books and blogs and forums (fori?) about survival. It gives me comfort to do so. It gives me the illusion of control. Control is in fact an illusion. Disasters are chaotic, and chaos theory indicates that survival of any individual in chaos is determined in large part by chance. The strongest, best equipped and trained survivalist will not survive being hit by a tornado-tossed truck. Archeology, anthropology and Heinlein indicate that the minimum unit of survival is the village. The village can be autonomous, the individual, in the long run, cannot. Well thought out survival strategies involve a group: a neighborhood, a congregation, a scout troop-whatever. It is much easier to plan on individual survival, but that simply means that you will have to build your village on the run.

I couldnt disagree more with Nursemike

Control is not an illusion. It is a necessity. Planning for survival is part of being human. Abandoning myself to fate just isnt in my nature, I suppose. The utility of preparing has been proven to me again and again.The fact I am still alive is no illusion.

The minimum unit of survival in a catastrophic event is the individual. WHat happens when the people you were going to survive with are killed or severely injured during the hypothetical catastrophe? What if YOU are injured and cannot get to the rendezvous point? Yes, it is nice to have company but not at the expense of ignoring the basic premise: you and yours must survive.

I couldn't agree more with DBA...were we in a discussion on The Survival Forum. In the short term, survival is all about individual performance, and all of your points are accurate and well-stated.

This venue is all about long term survival, and long term survival is all about groups.

it depends on the reason you are having to 'bug-out.' And on the reason you feel you may need to bug out. In my own bag, I carry "hippie" looking clothing, and my bag is a Northface Scarab, as I want to look like a hippie hiker to any helicopters that may spot me. I plan on cacheing mil-spec gear though, but I want to look like a hippie for a few days after I vanish.