Hi friends...<br>My 12 year old daughter is going on a 5 day camp-out next week and I am already hyper-ventilating!!!! Well, they all know about basic survival as I bought John Wiseman's book about SAS Survival and they have seen me assemble my kits. I have also introduced them to Kid's EDC like whistles etc.<br><br>What would you recommend for my daughter's mini PSK for this type of camp-out? I have some ideas as per Doug's list, but would love to hear from others too.<br><br>Incidentally, my daughter's school prohibits knives of any sort, even for a camp-out and I find this disturbing and irritating to say the least...is this the same in the USA? Nevertheless, she will have a discreet linerlock Linder in a sheath in her bag..........This is a "utilitarian" looking knife and not intimidating in any way. I feel that when the chips are down, she should be able to fend for herself and help others too.....what do you think? <br><br>

My girls are 8 and 6, I have been taking them on day hikes for the last two years. They never set foot out of the car without their belly bags. These contain<br><br>1 liter water,<br>"space" blanket<br>poncho (single use plastic)<br>rations - "power bar"<br>GORP<br>whistle<br>compass - even the six year old knows how to track her trending and reverse it to attempt a return<br>knife (colemans Kamp knife with spoon fork and knife)<br>flashlight (mini-mag with head strap and small led clip light)<br>signal mirror<br>TP and facial tissues<br><br>I haven't bothered with a separate mini-PSK for them since they are small enough that the additional weight and bulk, when added to a fullish belly-bag, would be noticeable. Also I don't let them wander into the woods without me and I always have a bunch of gear - adequate for the three of us to last in the woods for a few days though not comfortably.<br><br>For a 12 year old I would definately add a water filter and some iodine tablets as EDC. For a 5 day camp-out there will be lots of other items such as clothing, tent, sleeping bag and pad, cooking stuff and food. An important distinction is whether this is a hike-in or drive-in camp. If a drive-in camp then there is much more flexibility with bringing redundant back-up items. I would think that for a drive-in camp you would want to bring a shovel and hatchet along but for a hike-in camp I wouldn't bother with the shovel at all and I would allow a large fix-blade knife to substitute for the hatchet. I she expecting to "sleep in the park and swim in the lake" or "hike accross a few mountains and hunt down her food" These are two quite different experiences. If this is a sleep in the park, swim in the lake type of thing then pack for a sleep-over at a friends house would probably be fine since there will be abundant camp staff and a mess hall and nurses office etc... If this is a hike over a few mountains and hunt down your food then you need to prepare her for being lost and spending approximately double the expected time out in the wilderness since she may be lost in a very much larger area and whatever supervision that there may be will be probably be busy trying to rescue themselves as well if something goes wrong.

If this were a Scout camp activity, the knife would likely be okay. However, if this is a "school" camp, I would not allow my daughter have a knife in her bag. Many school systems have a 0% tolerance policy. No sense in creating a potential legal problem. Pete

First of all, don't bring the knife. It's a school policy and violating it would likely cause her to be expelled. If you don't agree with the policy, then don't go. I doubt that a school outing is going to be at a location where the lack of a knife is a very serious concern. Of course, anything can happen anywhere. But for most children, a knife is not going to make the difference of lifa and death, IMHO.<br><br>Now folks, don't flame me to quickly. Most of you know I'm involved with the scouts and that scouts can carry knives. Of course this is after they have been trained under proper supervision. And this is not to be confused with the issue of how old one should be before owning a knife, which was discussed at length in a thread some months ago.<br><br>But if you reread Doug's section on Kid's Don't-Leave-Home-Without-It Equipment , both a pocket knife and firestarting gear are optional. The safety concerns are obvious. But also consider the value returned. Most children will not be lost in a remote wilderness. If they have all of the other gear and follow the steps outlined in A Kid's Wilderness Survival Primer , they will easily survive the vast majority of the "lost in the woods" situations.<br><br>I have prepared a fanny pack for each of my younger children, the older of the two is 10. I let him use knoves while under my supervision, but I do not include it in the kit. I'd be more concerned that he would accidentally cut himself while lost and alone. Not the situation has gone from bad to worse, and he does nothave the maturity or knowledge to deal with a major injury while alone. Again, most of the time, they'll be places where they should be found in a short amount of time. If we were to travel in an area where the risk is higher, I would likely re-evaluate this strategy.<br><br>Here's what they carry.<br>Water bottle<br>Fox40 whistle on a lanyard<br>Garbage bag<br>Colmann emergancy poncho (bright orange)<br>Chemical light stick in a toothpaste travel tube.<br>Two bandanas, one a bright red.<br>One space blanket.<br><br>They sometimes carry small flashlights, but they don't like the added weight. Their first action is to STOP and stay put, unless it's not safe to do so. The poncho can serve as an emergency shelter, as can the garbage bag, and it's a bright color for signalling. If night falls, the chem light will help comfort him or her as the huddle in their poncho shelter. Darkness is scary and intimidating. The chem light will last most of the night where a flashlight would burn out too quick. You and aI would hunker down in the drak and conserve batteries, but a child won't.<br><br>The whistle is the key tool for their safety. Most likely they will not have wandered too far from help, especially if they follow the S.T.O.P instructions. <br><br>We went through the gear and instruction this spring on a day hike. And will do it again on out next trip. I plan on repeating the instruction again before next season as a refresher. Practice makes perfect.<br>

Yes, it is the same in most of the USA regarding the knife being prohibited in school activities. Use your best judgement here and be wary of the consequences of violating the rules. I wouldn't want my child expelled from school.<br><br>I recommend keeping it simple when preparing children with survival equipment. If she is like most 12 year old girls, her interest in survival gear will be short and her willingness to keep it with her will be even shorter. Doug's recommendations on equiping children fall along very simple lines and I believe that is a good idea.<br><br>Give her a very limited number of simple items that she fully understands how to use. Chief among these would be the whistle. Choose other items from Doug's list for children. Be sensitive to her interest level and stop providing additional equipment and instruction when her interest runs out. If you overwhelm her with stuff, she will probably abandon all of it with her luggage at camp and not carry any of it.<br>

Manuel, I recently participated in the search for a 5 y/o girl who was abducted and murdered. The search was sad enough, but I had to bring a dehydrated searcher back on my horse. The utter lack of preparation among the volunteers was shocking. Many schools here have adopted zero tolerance policies towards knives. An honors student was suspended for bringing a butterknife to spread peanut butter. I don't think your daughter needs a knife on this campout. I would verify the adult staff's experience and preparations however. I know some people who worry more when the car leaves to get detailed than about their own children!

for a 12 year old girl it may be more about fashion and style than survival functionality. These don't have to be mutually exclusive but they are certainly not guaranteed to overlap. Getting a 12 year old girl to hang a mil surplus ammo pouch on her belt is not likely to work. It will be left behind or refilled with nail-polish. OTOH a stylish though small back-pack with her favorite teen-idol spaypainted on the back might be lugged everywhere even if empty. If you can get it small and guady then go with it. <br><br>I saw this recently on thinkGeek and thought that it might be something I could carry on a keychain next to my utili-key and swiss-tech micro-plus.

Hi Thor,<br><br>The knife issue is getting increasingly more prevelant all over from what I've read and heard of. As much as is pains one to admit, sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. . . <br><br>My 14 year old is at a weeklong campout that is state sponsored and geared towards iniital camping and firearms training. They too have a zero tolerance policy on knives. This was a bit of a dissapointment to him, as he has been carrying a pocket knife for about 4 years now. As yet, there have been only very minor nicked fingers (generally along the typical office papercut in size and concern) which are pretty much viewed part of the process of knife ownership. I doubt that anyone that carries a knife has not had a similar experience. He knows how to use the knife properly and to attend to the minor cleaning and antiseptic needs that he has incurred and lets us know about them in a timely manner.<br><br>He has been very interested and really participating in the making of PSK's in the last several months, (has his own including most of the items shown in Dougs kit). He was rather irritated to learn that he COULD NOT bring most of it with him to camp. He was however (according to the camp policy guide sheet) allowed to take a canteen, compass, whistle, poncho, flashlight and mirror.<br> <br>Considering that this is a state run camp that has been around for better than 20 years, I was comfortable with the restrictions regarding the Potable Aqua, knives, fire starters and first aid stuff. This is not to say that I would not have preferred him to have carried the whole kit and kaboodle though. Sometimes we've just got to bite our tongue and let things go a bit. <br><br>On the whole, I concur with what the previous posters have addressed. You might want to peruse several of the older threads on ETS forums, there have been several pretty good discussions regarding what to do when you don't have [fill in the blank] and you need to survive. The general consensus appears to be that lacking all else, having a plan of action and the appropriate knowledge is the most essential tool that you can have when the need arises (true in survival and most of the rest of life itself). It would appear that you have been sparking her interest and providing the education. This is a good thing. <br><br>In closing, and not knowing what kind of camp you are dealing with, my gut feeling is that your daughter would probaly be OK without the knife, but I would make sure that things like compass, mirror, whistle, canteen, PSK S.T.O.P. sheet and perhaps a small food stash (SOLAS food ration bar or similar) along with a quiet father daughter discussion would be appropriate. My guess is that there is more danger of camp bullies etc. than from actually getting lost and having to survive.<br><br>Another thought . . . it might be a good idea to have kids make some sort of flagstaff to carry when they get lost. Yes, I know it sounds a bit strange at first, but think about it . . . kids are smaller and harder to spot in many cases, especially if they lay down and take a nap. If they would find a stick of some sort and carry it with them AND when laying down for a nap, stand up their flagpole so that it is close by and readily visible (this would be a good place for a couple yards of bright surveyors tape as they could make tassels to blow in the wind ) and the actual making of the flagstaff would tend to be a bit of a confidence booster . . . "hey look at me, I have my own flag and I getting unlost now" versus "woe is me" etc. In most places one can find some sort of small branch or stick fairly easily, they are light and being out of place with flag or having clear stick up to a handful of broken branches on top would help searchers. <br><br>If she does manage to "misplace the camp", then having a quick bite to eat and a sip of water while reading S.T.O.P. and backtracking while whistleblowing and mirror flashing appropriate targets/people would be much appreciated. Besides which, she'll have an interesting story for school next year, likely titled "What I did on my summer vacation" ;>)<br><br>Hope this helps.<br>Comanche7

If your daughter knows how to keep her mouth shut and has the discretion to know when to use a knife. I say let her carry one. If there is even the remote chance that she will try to show off...forget it. <br> I have said this many times lately..."A knife is a tool not a weapon." The schools around here are out of hand about these things.

Thor, I agree very strongly that your daughter should not carry a knife. Some schools have adopted a 0% tolerance 0% common sense approach to the issue. Our local school started expulsion proceedings against a young boy(7) for having a small pen knife his grandfather had given him specifically for the outing (not being aware of the policy). Then they sent it to our office asking for prosecution! It took three separate meetings with the superintendant with both me and the chief of police arguing against disciplinary proceedings before they were finally dropped. Unbelievable. <br><br> Our daughter carries an "emergency" kit (rather than survival kit) something like mini's and willies, and I will be making some additions after seeing their advice. The one addition that I would make would be a cell phone. She is not allowed to give the number out, nor to use it for social calls, but simply to have it in her pack in case of true emergency.<br><br>Take care, <br><br><br><br>become evolved....the world is run by those who grow up