Good point. <br>Its a sad state of affairs that we are even debating such an issue. Its the same mentality as the gun control and anti-nuke people. If you take the object away from the trustworthy people, then the untrustworthy wont have a place to steal it. What a load of garbage. It boggles my mind that people think this way. Once something has been invented, you cannot un-invent it. <br>Pacifism only works against pacifists. <br>Im kinda going into dangerous territory. I better quit.

A quick caution on carrying food.<br><br>Never, ever under any circumstances let her have food in the tent. The obvious threat from bears should be warning enough. But more common is damage from other critters, especially racoons, squirrels and chipmonks (groundsquirrels). They can cause hundreds of dollars of damage in no time at all.<br><br>She can grab an extra apple or purchase a candy bar at the trading post to carry with her during the day. But she must either eat it or store it in a secure place (trailer, cook box, ect.) at night.

>>> ...0% tolerance 0% common sense approach <br><br>True. I recall a case where a local elementary school boy was expelled for bringing his father's dummy WWII handgranade paperwieght to school because it was a weapon. A decision completely devoid of common sense.<br><br>On the other hand, our school administrators are faced with a very real and difficult problem of providing education in a safe environment. A zero tolerance rule on knives gives them a tool to that end, even if it seems draconian.<br><br>And while I doubt such rules will ever prevent another Columbine from occuring, they may help prevent the more common problem of general violence in schools. We just had a murder in my home town this summer of a high school boy by a fellow classmate when a dispute over a girl evolved from a fistfight to homocide when one of the boys pulled a knife and stabbed the other. It did not happen on school grounds, but it could have, and surely has before.<br><br>As an aside, I'd also be a little concerned if they allowed knives and had no special rules or training for them. The school staff running the event may be adept at handling knives and instructing youths on how to do so.. or not. If not, them allowing a group of children to carry them would be irresponsible and dangerous.

Willie,<br><br>You are exactly right. Aggressive enforcement of weapons (and drug) violations at school is absolutely necessary and there should be a zero percent tolerance. I think the problem is that we try to make it "one size fits all" and give up our responsibility to think and act on each case as the facts require. If the "possess a knife--get expelled" rule is applied in a manner that we treat the butter knife for spreading peanut butter the same as the double-edged switchblade, we lose the respect of the children (and their parents). I think there are fewer stupid laws than most people think--but a lot of laws are applied stupidly.

Camping around here (no large predators other than Man) means racoons are the #1 burglar after dark. In areas where they are habituated to finding food when people are present (much like bears in some parts of the country), they come into camp / tents regardless - the presence or absence of food only affects how long they stay.<br><br>We have found that the very best racoon repellent is a large, loyal, and obedient dog. We have also found that a scout stave is an effective "racoon ejector" when one awakens with one in the tent... not a problem with a fully enclosed tent, of course.<br><br>Around here we toss a line over a limb and suspend food bags above head-height. Day packs involve a decision - hang the whole pack or hang just the foodstuffs... Bear country precautions are a bit more intricate, of course, but no need to regurgitate that info right now.<br><br>I wouldn't sweat a bit of food in a daypack one way or another if racoons are the sole threat, but the earlier one teaches this sort of good habit, the better.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom

i think 0 tollerentst on knifes is a one of those rouls that doesnt make sence, considering that a scissor is a requiriment at school. a big scissor can have a larger/longer cutting edge than a knife with means it could me more dangerous than a short knife....

We can all debate the saneness or validity of a particular rule/law to our hearts content. However the rule/law is the rule/law, to suggest a child break it, (by sneaking the knife in her bag) because we don't agree with it, is not teaching respect for authority. Pete

Pete,<br><br>While I agree that it neccessary to teach our children to respect authority, it is also our responsibility to teach them to question authority when it conflicts with their morals/ethics/common sense/good judgment/BS detectors/etc....<br><br>My comments earlier were a knee-jerk reaction; further reflection has lead me to believe that it would still be a valid choice FOR ME. A more reasoned, rational, moderate response would be to boycott the camp, making [censored] good and sure that the camp administrators knew why. This has the benefit of being the high ground, and the significant disadvantage of being a no-win situation for the child. Thoreau and Ghandi would approve, Jefferson and Washington would not. There, as others have pointed out, is a middle ground somewhere in betweeen. You pays your money and you takes your choice......<br><br><br>Take care,<br><br>Andy

Thor,<br><br>You might also check with the school to see if you or your wife could possibly go as a chaperone, leader, driver, or whatever. Even if no such slots are presently available, you might volunteer as backups. Be sure to tell both the teacher(s) & principal you are so available. One might advocate your case for any number of reasons. You might even offer to provide support through your parent-teacher association. My wife &/or I have been able to attend many such activities by trying various approaches. Our children have benefited substantially by our presence.<br><br>Good luck.<br><br>John

Hi Thor,<br><br>It occurred to me while re-reading all of the thoughtful input [Great going folks!] on this thread, is that there is a valid and a very real need to remain a bit flexible in our dealings with life and its slaps in the face like the issue we've been discussing. By thinking beyond not having the knife (or whatever) we can become better prepared to handle adversity. Not having the knife would also occur had you been in the survival situation and lost or broken the knife. <br><br>While most of us would agree that it is frustrating to be checked and rechecked at airports, it is (sadly) the world that we now live in. While grousing about it may feel good, we need to remember that there is still the need to be prepared as best we can for the circumstances that we are facing at any given time. <br><br>There will be other opportunities for your daughter to go camping and have her knife and the rest of her kit as well. The fact that you spent some time (carefully considering, if not agonizing) over making your decision simply shows that you care a great deal for her, as we all do for our own families.<br><br>Let us know how things turn out. My guess is she'll have a great time being a kid. <br><br>Regards,<br>Comanche7<br>