I worked in a Medical Center for 30 years and have seen many many dog bites. Even very small dogs can do a lot of damage. A slashing and tearing bite to the ankle, a very complex joint, can result in life long incapacitation. In most cases, the owner, (who frequently accompanies the victim) keeps saying, “he has never done that before” or “I never expected my dog to bite”. Larger dogs create devastating wounds. Dogs with massive jaw muscles like pit bulls, are capable of crushing bones. I have seen the lethal wounds from a large dog where he bit through the skull of a child.

Given that, here is a story with a question.

Gloria and I were walking along a pond, deep in the Maine woods. A Doberman came running over a small hill about 50 feet away barking and growling. He stopped about 20 feet from me and lowered his head. His ears were laid back and he began to growl. Apparently he did not see Gloria. Gloria recognized the dog as that of a neighbor and yelled "Apollo, shut-up". The dog instantly turned into a "family pet". Total elapsed time, less than 10 seconds.

Had Gloria not been with me, I wonder what would have happened. How long should I wait until I shoot the dog. Should I wait until he begins to attack, at which time I would have to hit a very fast moving dog as he weaved through the underbrush. Perhaps I should have shot him when he first appeared, as he bounded over the hill barking and snarling. I do not speak dog language. I do not know when he is bluffing or if he is beginning a real attack.

This is not about the owner or dogs running loose in the woods. It is about how I, should act when I encounter this situation. From my experience in the Emergency Room, I believe that dog could easily inflict very serious or even lethal wounds. It seems wrong to kill every dog I see running wild, but where do you draw the line (and draw the gun)?

So the question is, how would you react? What are the implications of killing a dog in this sort of situation? If you are a dog owner, and you let your dog run loose, how would you react if I shot your dog?

I have dealt with this problem in a few regards. I shoot the dog when he is near enough to me, in his attack run, to be certain that I won't miss! Point blank range!
If I am not packing I crouch down low and grab him by the throat when he lunges, picking him off of the ground and strangle him until he is unconscious.
Then I finish him off & leave him where I killed him, for the owner to find & dispose of!

Here's my thoughts on a dog attack, which is probably worth what you paid for it.

1) They're often more afraid of you than you are of them. They try to make you think they're not. They're pretty good at it.

2) Don't miss. You could turn a dog thinking he's defending his territory into 100 lbs of really pissed off, pain-ridden cornered animal. Dog's posture, too.

3) As with every time you shoot, make sure of what's behind your target. I've found more dogs being pursued by their owners than solo.

4) You might want to have an alternate strategy when for when the dog is standing between you and a playground full of kids and you *can't* shoot. It might be this alternate strategy will work even when you could.

I have come very close to shooting a dog twice, both times the charge came from within 30 feet or so, and both times the owners literally jumped on their dogs to stop them. Given a safe background, I would shoot as soon as the dog actually started to charge, or as soon as it was close enough to ensure a solid hit.

If worse came to worse, I have always planned on feeding the dog my left forearm, then gut shooting it a dozen times wth my right. I also read, years ago, that it is possible to feed the dog your left forearm, then rapidly put your right forearm behind its neck and push away with the left while pulling in with the right and break the dogs neck. I would really hate to have to try that one...

Youv'e hit a nerve with this post .
I had a large black dog that , a few people said , looked like a wolf . We hiked alot of miles together in a lot of places . When we were out in the woods I took off the leash so she could run around . I knew and trusted my dog and KNEW she would never hurt anyone unless someone physicaly attacked me or her . I would have NEVER let her off the leash if she were a danger to anyone . When we hiked she would never get to far from me because she always wanted to keep me in sight . She mostly walked a little ways ahead of me sort of like she was taking the point . Sometimes when turning a corner in the trail or going over a hill , we would lose sight of each other for a moment . A few times she came upon other hikers , cross country skiers , and mountain bikers in the moment when I was not in sight yet . Like I said , she sort of looked like a wolf and did surprise some of these people and I'm sure some of them were scared for a moment . Now , I can understand that people would get scared when coming across a big dog like that in the woods . They had no way of knowing she was a GOOD dog [ IMO there are no bad dogs , only bad owners ] . I've met some VERY bad dog owners . BUT!!!!! If anyone had been STUPID and IRRESPONSIBLE enough to shoot or harm my dog in any way in the brief time that I was not in view . I would have made them EXTREMELY!!!!!! sorry they did such a STUPID!!!!! thing <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />. Before you shoot a dog , you better be ABSOLUTELY SURE your'e doing the right thing .

This is why I said, " I would wait until the dog starts it's attack run"! I do love dogs & have been known to calm the beast within when no others could. I have also been known to speak/communicate with animals, despite the way that that sounds.

Touchy topic here. I'll input my two cents. I own an Akita, so I'm familiar with big dogs and handling them when they get rowdy. It's pretty rare that I have a firearm handy, so I'd plan for defense in other ways. Much as most everyone else on this forum, I almost always have a knife with me if I'm not in the house. As soon as Fido starts his charge, that knife is going to be in my hand.

One thing I've noticed from playing with dogs in the past, especially large breeds like a German Shepard or the Akita, is that while they're running at you really fast, if you hold your ground and dodge to the side at quite literally the last second, they take a second or two to get turned around. There's your opportunity. Do what's neccesary.

I'm a pretty big fan of non-lethal dissuasion, but there's a bit of a catch-22 there. On the one hand, I'd get really, really, REALLY mad if anyone messed with my dog. On the other hand, if my best friends boxer ever charged me....well, lets just say I hope he understands that I put my well-being before that of his pets. However, if for some reason you do not wish to use lethal force, I've dicovered it's not particularly difficult to put 85 lbs of Akita on the ground and keep her there with one arm. As she charges, you try to get positioned so the dog is on your left, assuming you're right handed, and just as they reach you, side step, drop to a knee and throw your stronger right arm around their throat. Dog comes up and over your knee, hits the ground with you on top of them, and stays put.

All this said, a ticked off animal that you've hurt is bad news, no matter how you slice it. Sorry about the long post, but I really like dogs.

-Kyle <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I've used pepper spray, which worked well.

spent some time in Arkansas a while ago. Had several conversations that went like this: " i had a labrador retriever, but he got hit by a car, then we got a cocker, but he got hit by a car, so then we got a collie, but he got hit by a car..." " Ever thought about keeping the dog on a leash or inside a fence?""No, that would be wrong-dogs gotta run free." In the dog-human relationship, it is the humans job to keep the dog out of harms way-it is not the responsibility of the dog, and it is not the responsibility of the rest of the humans. If my dog gets shot, it will probably be because I made a mistake in taking care of my dog. Any dog will bite if frightened-they don't have much of a left hook and they cannot call a lawyer-biting is what they do, and they cannot be trained to never do it.

'...walking along a pond, deep in the Maine woods.'

So.... were you in National Forest or on unfenced private property?

There's considerable difference between a warning and an attack. Most dogs just threaten, protecting what they perceive (right or wrong) as their territory, and they're hoping they can bluff you so you leave the area.

Unless they're downright vicious, they probably won't actually attack, unless you provoke them.

Don't stare them in the eye -- that's sign of aggression on your part.

Stand still, don't run -- run, and you instantly become prey.

You might even call them in a cheerful voice and tell them to come. I've seen that truly flummox a dog -- they don't know what they should do, but they seem to think attacking isn't it.

FYI: The two biggest threats in pet canines are Pitbulls and Rottweilers. According to Animal People (July/August 2004), "Over the past decade the number of life-threatening and fatal pit bull attacks increased 789%. The number of life-threatening and fatal Rottweiler attacks leaped 2000%... During that time, pit bulls, Rottweilers, and their mixes have gone from being less than 1% of the total U.S. dog population to as much as 8%, almost perfectly parallel to the rates of increase in life-threatening and fatal attacks involving them."

If you intend to shoot every dog that threatens you, don't be surprised if some irate owner does the same to you.

Sue