I am the organizer of the Seattle backpackers Meetup Group we have over 470 members and go on more than 12 trips/get togethers a month. I have been a member of Equipped for a few years. My original membership was a few years ago and I updated a couple years ago. I have posted a few personal things on the forums and have always received down home answers….that said please help.

As mentioned we have about 12 trips a month and we also have about 8 organizers helping out with that.

Today for the first time we lost a member in the typical scenario. I wasn’t on this hike but 2 of the other organizers were. She got separated from the group when she went off trail to relieve herself. All other hikers from the group passed her by. When she came to a fork in the road she took the wrong turn. It was raining and cold…40’s. She was lost for about 2 hours. Everyone else made it back to the parking lot from this day hike and she was no where to be found.

The organizers did the right thing. Tried her cell, called the S&R to put them on notice and started trying to figure it out. After an hour they finally got through to her cell and generally located her position by dumb luck.

I received a call a few minutes after the group realized she was lost. I looked at her hiking history with our group and realized she has been on more than 15 trips with us and many overnights. This was my first sigh of relief. At least I knew she wasn’t a newbie. By conformation of the organizers at the trail head I knew she was dressed VERY well for conditions.

By conversation with her and others after she was found she was very scared. Again very well equipped (thank god) and scared just the same.

So to the point. We have 8 organizers as well as 470 members the majority of which are fairly new to the backpacking sport. Winter is coming up so I would like to do a few things and am asking all of you very knowledgeable people for help.

What sort of winter (cascade and rocky) safety do you think I should introduce to these people?

I am personally very capable of starting a fire in most conditions but please help me outline a course or help me point these people in the right direction for starting a fire basics.

Do you know any good story web sites I can send out that outline the dangers of hiking in cold/wet weather?

I really am just at a loss as to where to start on educating 470 people on proper safety this winter and actually having them pay attention.

Please help.

I don’t want to be a jerk and post my web site but if you google “Seattle backpackers” we are the first link and I am Cameron.

Thanks for any advice on keeping 470 people safe.

Cameron Ownbey

Please look on this ETS-link. It covers the basics:

http://www.equipped.org/srvskl.htm

Awesom...Forgot that was here. With Mr. Ritters permission I may use this. Will email him tomorrow.

Thanks

Cameron

" Do you know any good story web sites I can send out that outline the dangers of hiking in cold/wet weather?"


Here is a link to a sad story that graphically outlines the dangers. Have them give it a read--it is very sobering.

Good article, but a GPS by itself won't do squat if you don't use it before you get lost. I've got a mapping Garmin GPS V for my car and a non-mapping unit for hiking. Non-mapping GPS receivers such as my Geko 301 are small and less pricey, and can be used to mark where your car is parked, turnpoints and other features that will get you home. But you need to use it before you get lost.

Having a map with the GPS and knowing how to plot your UTM posit on the map is even better. But you still need to use it before you get lost. It's not like emergency gear that you only break out when you're in trouble. It's gear to use every time you go for a walk. Staying found is much better than getting found.

Mapping models are better, but they're usually bigger, cost more and you still need to know where you want to go on that map relative to where it shows you to be. Without terrain features (topo map in the GPS), it might be better to mark waypoints like you need to do with a non-mapping GPS rcvr. $.02

Have everyone read "To Build A Fire" by Jack London.
It drives home the point of needing to stay warm and dry as well as making a fire in winter conditions.
Oh and it is a classic.

A good source of information on using Universal Transverse Mercator (UTM) coordinates is http://www.maptools.com . That sight also sells very nice UTM grids at reasonable prices.

My advice would be to make sure each hiker has a topo map of the area with UTM coordinate drawn on it, a UTM grid (either on the compass or a separate one), a decent compass with the knowledge to adjust for magnetic declination (17.5 degrees East in Seattle area), and a GPS with fresh batteries and the knowledge to use it along with the map & compass. The idea would be for them to enter waypoints for key locations (starting point, ending point, etc...) BEFORE the hike even starts.

If lost, they could use the GPS to determine where they are, then use the UTM coordinates from the GPS to determine their location on the map, and then give that coordinate to rescuers or use the GPS and the map to track their way back to where they need to be.

When in the field I carry the Garmin Geko 201 because it is tiny, lightweight, stores waypoints, shows my current location, AND allows me to connect it to my computer for pre-loading of waypoints. For that I use some nice software called ExpertGPS (http://www.expertgps.com for $60 - stores GPS waypoints and also provides on-line Topo maps and aerial photos).

For maps I have been buying from USGS, but recently started ordering weatherproof/tearproof USGS topo maps from http://www.mytopo.com .

If you can get mapping software to print out maps that preserve the 1:24,000 scale, that is good too, but I've had trouble with that so I buy pre-printed maps.

All of this assumes that the hiker is in a condition (physically or mentally) to walk out of their situation. They need to be equipped to handle the other scenario where they need to stay put and wait for rescue. That is where the gear recommended by Doug Ritter is critical. As general advice for a large group of hikers, my advice would be to tell them to purchase the Doug Ritter Personal Survival Pak and then suppliment it with the items recommended in the bonus materials:

>Folding knife w/ locking blade and at least a 2.5 in blade that has one-handed opening
>Pocket-sized personal shelter such as a space blanket, bivvy sack, large bags, poncho
>Pocket-sized or key-chain LED flashlight w/ constant-on switch
>First aid kit: such as the AMK Pocket Medic or Ultralight .5
>Personal supply of Water, such as a Nalgene water bottle with Katadyn Micropur MP1 purification tablets
>Personal medications (rotate regularly)
>Waterproof matches and/or lighter, such as the REI Waterproof matches in a waterproof case or a mini Bic lighter
>Personal Locator Beacon, IF it can be afforded
>>In addition, I'd recommend making sure you have a large highly visible "flag". This could be some bright orange plastic bags , an orange poncho, or similar. Just anything to make you more visible through the trees.

And as always,
>Leave trip plan left with a responsible person and stick to the plan
>Travel with a companion
>Dress or take clothing for the weather

Finally, this gear should be with them on their person at ALL times - even when "just" going into the woods to relieve themselves or looking for firewood. A fanny pack would work well for this. Putting this gear in their backpacks is not enough. There are plenty of stories of people who are separated from their packs for one reason or another (falls, floods, etc...).

Long time lurker, new member on the forums!!! I love all the great info I have recieved from the forum members, a sincere thanks to all those who contribute....

So back to the question at hand.

The best advice I can give, to add to what has already been posted, is that when hiking/camping/climbing/etc. one of the simplest things to do/remember is to assign everyone a "buddy". The military refers to this as a "battle buddy", I can't remember what we called it in the boyscouts, and at the PD we call it a "back/partner". It is an essential safety measure.

Essentially you divide the hiking/camping/etc. group up into pairs, if there is an odd number, assign 3 to one group.

These "buddies" should get to know eachother a little bit before embarking on the journey. Introduce yourself, discuss what equipment you are carrying, your experience, any relevant medical history/conditions and/or medications that you must take (diabetic/asthmatic/etc.) and where those emergency medications are kept on your person/pack. Although friends and family members will likely pair up themselves, this is a good way to get to know a new person.

When venturing off on the trail, going to the restroom, beginning a new hike after a night in camp, etc. It is each person's duty to inform their "buddy" where they are going and when they will return. If the pair ventures off together, they should notify someone in another "pair" that they are breaking away from the group for "x" reason and will return in "x" time. This helps to avoid the "group-think" mentality that so often happens where everyone just assumes that someone else knows where they are, what they are doing, and will call for help if they are missing.

This is great advice for any weather conditon, and can mean the difference between life and death in extream (hot/cold) environments. I also recommend using the "buddy system" when on a school trip, day-care outing, etc.

Had this "buddy system" been in place during your example above, that person would never have been "left behind" by the group.

Best of luck and keep on enjoying the great outdoors.

-Silent

Many years ago when I was a scoutmaster I would take all the boys (we had only boys then) on a duck hike. The prerequisites for the hike is that it hade to be raining and cold, cold around here in the mountains is 40-50 deg.during the fall. During this hike All boys were to start a fire using anything they had in there pack, they could not use other boys equipment or help. In addition to the boys we would have about 4or5 park rangers who just did not believe the boys could do it. They were proven wrong about 18 time every year (Or the number of boys that I had with me that trip.) As far a training goes I personally would start with the Boy Scout Handbook, To this day it is one of my favorite field books, and is carried in my pack.

The question was what material and how to get folks to pay attention.

I fear that getting their attention is the hardest part. The "duck hike" was a great idea for scouts but I expect that adults probably won't go along with it - you'd have to be too much the drill-sergeant to get them to actually do it. And the bellyaching you'd hear if one failed!

If everyone is along voluntarily about all you can do is set a good example, offer good material, and then talk up the preparedness status along the way with what-ifs. OR you can do a gear check and turn away the slackers. That's really tough to do.

In emphasizing filing a travel plan I constantly refer to the "really sharp knife" (that Aron Ralston wishes he had when he had to cut his arm off in Blue John Canyon) as the alternative approach..... gets grins but probably doesn't get anybody to file travel plans.

I dunno. Humans- pain in the butt critters.... hard to herd.

(I'm the "Hiking and Preparedness" instructor for a group of Aviation Archeologists.)