Wait now, I remember a song when I was in grade school sung to the Battle Hymn of the Republic.

My eyes have seen the glory of the burning of the school
We tortured all the teachers and we broke all the rules
We hung the secretary and we shot the principle
Our troops go marching on

People have always sung songs about how much they hate school. It comes from frustration over having discipline imposed on your life. Both the disciple of having to follow set rules that take away your individuality and the disciple of being told when to be where, what to do, turn in homework. Do they contribute to violence, does it get worse when they are put on the radio instead of snickered at during recess? Its hard to tell. But blaming music and video games or television instead of holding people responcible for their actions is irresponsible, just like having video games or television or even teachers raise your kids for you. Whether or not we have freewill or not is a question for the philosophers, but freewill or no, people need to take responcibility for there actions or responcibility needs to be placed on them if they won't accept it themselves.
Adulthood keeps getting pushed further and further back. Hold people responcible as adults at fifteen and they'll act like adults at fifteen.

On February 11, 1988 Jason Harless and Jason McCoy entered Pinellas Park (FL) High School across the street from my middle school. They were armed with handguns. Jason Harless shot Assistant Pricipal Richard Allen point blank in the head killing him instantly. Two other students were wounded. Both survived. My middle school was locked down for hours while they search for Jason McCoy.

School Violence 1927-Present

The football field and a atheletic invitational are named in his honor.

I believe the only reason this is a "big thing" is because we are a more connected society these days and the 1 in 1,000,000 incidents make the headlines and seem like it's an everyday thing. A high school student is more likely to die due to traffic related injuries than a bullet (some jurisdictions excluded... ). In my high school there was roughly 3 students per year that died from things like traffic accidents, health problems, and violence (rare).

It won't matter whether it is handguns, knives, or fists. Violence will always be present in our schools. The best sure fire way to prepare for it is to teach our kids how to react appropriately to any threat or instance of violence.

I agree. In fact, I think it is way past the time to abolish public schools altogether. It has become more of a self serving institution full of bureaucracy and incompetence that is becoming a tremendous burden to our society and our economy.

Consider the idea of actually incentivizing private schools to be competitive economically and academically. What a concept!!! As for ensuring they turn out quality graduates, what's so difficult about having a cert test for prospective private school grads, oh wait, they're doing that now in public schools aren't they, so I guess there'd be no difference. In fact, you could have a graduated testing process for different levels of competency, oh wait, they're doing that in public schools now, too.

Gee, then what would be the difference. I suppose if a private school doesn't graduate certified students, then they could be penalized somehow. Now that would certainly be different from the slap on the wrist that failing public schools get today wouldn't it. Yeah, there are penalties out there for public schools that don't "make the grade", but it is a wet noodle that has little, if any real impact on improving the program.

Then maybe you could do something tangible about school safety.

Until that time, we are stuck with incompetent administrators running obsolete programs with an egotistical and condescending staff that is all being grossly overpaid for their services. I realize this may not be comprehensive, but it is typical, therefore appropriate.

I have yet to meet a teacher in a public school that I could fully trust with a loaded weapon. I know they are out there, but I've not come across any. Most seem like "knowitalls" who increasingly offer up more opinion than substance in the classroom. In fact, trying to teach hunter safety/education to public teachers is at least as difficult as teaching it to 8 and 9 year olds.

That's been my experience anyways.

A family member happens to be a teacher. There is definitely no shortage of the "WTF" stories. You wouldn't believe what some schools are spending your tax dollars on. As far as teachers being overpaid; maybe in some areas. But I can speak with certainty that the teacher I know is not. Now the administration, that's another matter! Mucho buckos... $$$

Where it gets really interesting is with those special programs. And assistants. And translators. And parents demanding certain treatment. And, well, you get the idea...

I agree, no teacher should be armed. That's the equivalent of giving a bunch of college ethics professors a deadly weapon. Heck, they literally can't figure out how to lock and unlock a door. But that's another story... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Oy, enough already with the flogging of the public school system and its graduates, please. We're not all spectacular failures just because our parents couldn't afford to send us to private school. I turned out alright, and was able to find my way into a prestigious college amongst the wealthy products of the private school system, only I was there on scholarships.

I would love to find out where exactly these overpaid teachers can be found, so I can get a teaching certificate and move there! I always thought that in the US, finding a rich teacher was as rare as finding a poor doctor.

And I just don't see how closing a public school or denying any funding would improve the situation. The people who will feel the hurt the most are the poor kids. The lousy teachers can always find jobs elsewhere, and the wealthy parents can pay to send their mediocre kids to a private school, but the poorer families have nothing else to rely on.

Yeah, -but theres still No Excuse for Jonesboros, Columbines, etc etc etc etc etc.

"Columbine"!?, -I still have a Like and Love for the *Pre*-Columbine Meaning of the Term! -The Flower, that is! Now we got to Drag around this newer, Debased Meaning, -too! Well I'll "Keep the Lovely Flower Up!" All the Same and Nevertheless!....

Its just another area Symptomatic of the considerably Rotted side of our Society etc!

As people like to say with Politics, -Throw the Bums Out! In this sense, -maybe we should just do away with having schools altogether!, for awhile. To Save and Spare ourselves, -as well as the multitude of "Students" who really don't want to Learn, -all the Heartache and Trouble now Rife!

Then, -when they get out in Real Life and the Adult World, -and find out they don't know their Times Tables, -or how to Add or Subtract, -or even how to Read, -or that Washington DC is our Nation's Capital, -etc etc etc. -Maybe then they'll Finally Start Getting Wise! And Finally want to Learn some!

Lets step back into a Time Machine, -and bring back some of those old 1800s Stricto Schoolmasters! I'm not actually Serious about that, -But am all the same I'm Filled with its Spirit!
-I'd just Love to do that piece of Table Turning!,...!

Regarding and "Contrary" to the above, -I Love and Value a lot of the "Softer, New Stuff", -in Educational Techniques etc, that have come out over the last number of decades. Not all now, but many.

But all too many Students, Teachers, Administrators, School Systems, Boards, etc, -have "Abused the Hospitality"! So some Return to something a la the 1800s might be in Order!....

And again, as I've said, -the Shock Treatment of just Dropping the whole Schooling Bag altogether! "You guys don't want to Learn!, -Then Don't! -Sink or Swim!"....

As with Airline Pilots, -Teachers also should have the option of being Armed! And Sure they should be Up and Able to Responsably Exercise such too!

How bout Random, Surprise Strip Searches of Students, -for Weapons, Drugs, and other Contraband, too?! Tuff Times call for Tuff Measures. They Dislike and Don't Want such, -then they can kindly Refrain from Abusing the Hospitality! To begin with.

In my own Experience, -We were Light Years from things like Columbine! Twas Unheard of! As recently as even the 60s! the 70s and such now were Rife enuff with Drugs, -but Columbines and the like even then were ever so Remote!

And this recent "Picking on the Amish", -who never had anything to do with anyone here or their Gripes!, -This only takes old Ultra Lows down to new Such!!!. At least kindly Leave NON-Involvees Alone! And OUT of it!!!

Parochial and Private Schools, as well as Home Schooling, -Vastly do Not seem to have these Problems! In one System , -this more Private one, -the Students Really Want to Learn!, -the Teachers Really Want to Teach, -in the other (with various Exceptions sprinkled thruout), -they Don't!

Its again Societal and Symtomatic. Too Many Students really Don't want to Learn! Too Many Teachers really Don't want to Teach! I'm Sick of them all! Too many of these Students would frankly rather do all sorts of Fun and Bad Stuff! And really don't want to even do whats often just a little bit of Buckling Down, -to Learn! If they'd be as Eager about Learning!, -as they are about the latest Rap Artist, or "New Drug", or something!,...-Then they might Educationally and Academically Get Somewhere!

Also in my own Personal Experience, -though Thank God Years Outside of and Beyond our nowadays often Ultra Sorry Educational System!, -I beleive I came within a few hours of sitting in that McDonalds that Baumhammers shot up, -several years ago. Being White, -I in all Great Likelihood would have been among the victims! This might not be School. But its still the same "UltraSorry and Symtomatic Society"!

"School Police"! (Sneering Chuckles from me now, -though it could well be among the Tuff Measures I now advocate, -here in Today's particular Times and Circumstances), -We Never had!, nor ever Heard of such a thing!, -Back in my Day!,.... [color:"black"] [/color] [email]0311[/email]

I Differ and Disagree with Most of what the Phelps Sisters, of that Church of theirs, Advocate.

Though I do Agree with them that there is considerable Moral Rot and such, in our Society! (Though not neccessarily in all the same ways as do they!). And that the "Divinity in Charge", I think is considerably Displeased! He *Differs* with those inclined toward their same Gender, -but Contrary to what their Group Holds, -he does Not Hate them! Be all this preceeding so and as it may!...

...Thats still No Cause, Excuse, or Reason for they to so Intrude on Another, Entirely NON-Involved One's, -Funeral! (or other Affairs). I'm referring of course to the Amish. As well as our Returning Iraqi War Dead. They of this Group really of course, -should Leave Both sets of Funerals entirely Alone! Here I'm in Entire and Complete Agreement with you there!, Ironraven. And I Ardently "Second your Motion"! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]ironraven[/email]

As to the Population Increase effect, -Yes. But I wonder if other Countries, -say China with 4 or 5 times our population, -I wonder if they have the same Problem!

Some other Countries and Societies *don't have* our Underlying Cause or Problem, -and some others may have Better Ways of Dealing With, Preventing, and Addressing this. To the extent they even do have such Problem or Matter.

In China's case, -their Authoritative, PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. System, -(Wrong and all in its own ways, -but thats another matter), -probably has a lot to do with such Prevention.

And though their Society if "Let Loose" would have its Share of Crime and Violence, -They additionally may not be as innately Trigger Happy to start with, as we!

So "Pure Population" effects, -I'd say are Far from the Sole Precipitating Cause! "Internal Societal Factors", -I'd say Far More are!

Our particular Western Culture (Others in our Camp do *Not* Share this Dubious Distinction with us!), -just leans Too Far over to the "Shoot First, Ask Questions Later!, end of it all! (where they even Deign to do the Thinking and Questioning Part at all!).

But Yes, -all these aforementioned factors of mine being so, -with U.S. specifically, -if you Increase our Population, -You get a cooresponding Increase in our Shootings and other Crime, -however Otherwise it may be caused.

And as I like to say, -"Crime is Grime!" [color:"black"] [/color] [email]Eugene[/email]

No!, -Too much Softness, -promotes their Pandora's Box of Horrors! Not too much Authoritarianism! In this Day and Age that we find ourselves in!, -Are you Kidding!?....

And I am old enuff to remember the now seemingly Tame Alice Cooper Song. I Agree with your Assessment there! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]martinfocazio[/email]

Yeah, -but the "Rebellion" of *our* Day -and Today, -are Miles and Miles Apart! In both Nature and Degree!

Also, -I think our Day's "Rebellion" was more over Dis-Interest and Boredom concerning School, -as well as many Students *not* being all that Rah Rah Rah over Learning! -Than over the Disciplinary side of things. Or at least just as much so. Buy *not* over Discipline alone. [color:"black"] [/color] [email]AROTC[/email]