what is the world becoming nowadays with spike in suicide shooting at schools? The previous Columbine shooting also fit the profile of suicide shooter. The recent shooting at Amish school which killed 7 kids. There was another shooting in Montreal, dawson college, which resulted in 9 dead students and the shooter himself. All psychiatrists concluded this shootings represent outward suicide attempts by depressed people.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/02/amish.shooting/index.html

Are you worried that schools becoming an outlet for people to express their anger at the world?

Shootings occur where the shooters know there will be no one armed. This is evident in schools as well as the famous incidents at Lubey's restaurant in TX, and the Long Island RR.

Anti-gun proponents scream for more gun restrictions when in fact the restrictions cause more deaths than they solve. Just look how well these laws have worked in NYC and DC. How many gun crimes are committed in areas with an abundance of legal gun owners?

Quite the contrary. Schools are incubators for all the worst behaviours in human beings. What other aspect of life generates such antipathy? Look at pop music - song after song after song about how much school is "hated" - songs advocating violence against the school make the charts. Anyone here old enough to remember "Schools Out For Summer" by Alice Cooper?

Here's a snippet of the lyrics from that one:

School's out for summer
School's out forever
School's been blown to pieces

No more pencils
No more books
No more teacher's dirty looks

Out for summer
Out till fall
We might not go back at all

School's out forever
School's out for summer
School's out with fever
School's out completely


Under current "zero tolerance" rules that entire song would be called a "terroristic threat".

Certainly, schools become centers of both over-zealous authoritarianism and as a result develop an excessive level of emotion and anger.

That's my personal opinion, and has nothing whatsoever to do with anyone else.

[color:"red"]WARNING: This conversation is about to veer into some serious politics and I may need to kill this thread if it gets out of hand. [/color]

Disclaimer: I'm a life NRA member. My opinions are my own, not that of Equipped.org



I live in Pennsylvania. We have very moderate gun laws - i have a CCW permit, getting it was basically a matter of asking for it. You can get and use machine guns in PA with only a little fuss. While PA isn't as "gun freindly" as other states (like Vermont & Alaska), it's not anything like Illinois or New Jersey.

The point of this is that the patchwork of gun laws in the USA, coupled with the fact that there's maybe 200 million guns out there already means that if tomorrow we instituted Washington DC style gun bans it would be 100 years - probobly more - before the guns that were already in circulation stopped working, and if they stopped making ammo tomorrow it would be scores of years before the supplies in place ran out. So we're an armed society - but we're no longer gettng the other half of an armed society - the polite society. The latest outrage was for revenge for something that happened 20 years ago. What twisted mind holds a grudge for that long is bot for me to understand, all I need to know is that people like him are out there, everywhere and we'll never eradicate them. So I like to be prepared for them. I don't think that it's rational to hope nothing bad will happen and with that hope to not prepare for something bad - "just in case". Human history is a catalog of atrocities of man against man, wars over fine points of manners, anger over issues that are profound and absurd. In this context, I see school shootings as nothing less or more than the continuation of bad behaviors that have gone on for millenia.

To the point of "soft targets" like schools - of course predators strike where it's easiest. The question is how hard do we want & need to make our culture. I don't want Iraq to be the model of my future, and I don't want the UK to be either. I wish I were smarter, I'd give a terse, intelligent answer.

I am not concern about gun control. I am more concern about gettin treatment for people who are severely depressed. They need medical help so tragic incidents like Amish school shooting can be prevented.

I suspect if this individual was that disturbed, he has probably had contact with either law enforcement or the mental health system (or both) at some point.

Our mental health system is pathetic. It's a revolving door of minimalist bandaid treatment:

1) An individual decompensates (goes bonkers) and comes to the attention of law enforcement, county coroner, or wanders into the emergency room.

2) Is admitted to a psych unit which is crisis stabilization only,

3) Sent out to follow up (maybe) with a overburdened assembly line mental health system until s/he stops taking the meds, decompensates, and the cycle begins again.

4) Until of course they kill someone. Then they're diverted to the Dept of Corrections until they are released. Then go back to step 1.

The school shootings are not so much a gun control issue (of which I am in favor of in moderation), but of a number of factors.

1) Columbine - parents not raising their kids but letting the tv or video games do it, and kids not being taught respect for other human beings. No sense of community or belonging.

2) Colorado - sexual predators have not been shown to be treatable. (as much as it appeals to many, castration doesn't work), so life imprisonment is the most practical answer.

Taking away the guns won't solve the problem. The nut jobs will only grab machetes instead.

The cause is multi factoral, the solution needs to be multi faceted as well.

Sorry for the rant.

Unfortunately as the population increases your going to see more and more. If the chances of someone going crazy and doing that are one in a million and your population increases from 10 million to 20 million then you have doubled the number of people who will go crazy and do something like that will increase proportionally.
I'm betting we will see more anti laws passed as well which won't help any more than all the previous. My small town country school brought in someone for a hunters safety class, and in history class one of the teachers brought in various rifles from an old black powder to an M16 and shot blanks for us to 7th grade when we shot .22's in gym class. Of course the teachers all ran over to help me thinking this smallest kid in the class couldn't hold a rifle so I had to explain to them I was just turning it on its side comparing the bolt action to my semi auto at home not having trouble holding it. Then he county consolidated us to a big school where guns weren't talked about and my senior year a girl got show and killed at her boyfriends house when her ex shot at her current and missed. Then I move to the city and my wife's school taught her than guns are bad and they had regular shootings where she had to duck and run when one happened in the hallway she was in. I find it ironic how those laws have the opposite effect. IMHO there should be a field trip to a shooting range should be required with a safety class showing some damage from accidental shootings so the studnets can see what a gun can really do and get a little respect.

I worry there are no armed and trained teachers to defend the students. It is an undefended, target rich environment.

There are no mass shootings at gun shows.

More guns, less crime!

Craig, you're absolutely right on.

It worries me becuase it is becoming a trend. I have to question how many of these individuals would have had selected a school if they hadn't been prompted by the media coverage to do so. It's all a question of advertising.

While "shoot up a school" is a far cry from "drink Miller not Bud" or "Chevy not Ford", the effects of advertising are pretty simple to understand. And people who are "emotionally disturbed" (aka, nuts) usually want to fit in, and media, particularly the instant, no thinking required gratification of TV, helps to define what is "in", what is "cool". So if all the cool psychos are shooting up schools, guess what, the looser psychos are going to do it to to be just as cool.

The way the "news" is handling these is just sickening. They've gone past being obscene. Unless it's local to you, it isn't really news, I'm sorry, ten dead kids really isn't, and the families should be allowed to mourn. And the intrusiveness is just... "pornographic" is the best adjective I can come up with, like a socially acceptable snuff film. Look, unless you were family or a friend, you don't need to be at the funeral; if you have a satellite uplink and a camera crew, you really don't need to be there.

I know that's just my two cents. If it was my kid's funeral, news crews would be buried right next to them. There would be no politely worded request, or order, to leave. So let's call it two cents and shovel.