Everyone I know who carried a Thompson from WWII to Vietnam commented that while it had a hell of a muzzle flash, for stopping at close quarters and controlled automatic fire it was unbeatable. That pegs with just about everything from the law enforcement side of things I've ever read.

Then again, I also know there are people who are scared of the .45. *shrugs* To each thier own.

I'm sorry, when did I say in the post you are replying to that 5.56mm is a man stopper? I don't recall saying that, and I thank you to not put words in my mouth. What I did say can be rephrased as the those who claim the M-16 family is unreliable mechanically are 40 years out of date on thier information and they need to move on with thier lives.

While I do use the .223 cartridge myself for home defense I am also using those ultralight 45 grain soft points that basically disintigrate withing 3" of soft tissue. Nothing like near 100% energy transfere to bring a unpleasant situation to a screeching halt. But with the SS109 projectile, it sucks, no one who isn't a politician denies that. The SS109 was designed to poke holes in armour, and just doesn't work in soft tissue. For that reason, while I like .223/5.56mm for home defense and police work (where expanding ammunition is kosher, and out performs ANY non-prefragmented projectile in the 9mm/.38" class), for military work it needs help.

And the SA80 has had problems in more than just desert. It was just wasn't born right, and even the legendary engineers at H&K can't fix it. And I use that adjective quite intentionally. The cult of H&K is focused to much on the brand name. I like H&Ks, don't get me wrong, but they are not the last word in firearms, no one is. They've produced thier fair share of junk and gone down plenty of blind alleys over the years.

The whole reason why the MP5 was chosen in the 70s by certain units is becuase it was one of the first closed bolt SMGs, which improves accuracy, and it had a great barrel and trigger. To this day, there are few SMGs and PDWs which match it for single shot accuracy. That is critical in certain missions. That reason and pretty much that reason alone is why it was popular. By the time other people got on the ball, with things like the 9mm Colt, the Calicos, the evolved Uzi (Ruger MP-9) and various others, the MP5 had market dominance and maintains it by dint of there being so many of them in service. It was the "firstest with the mostest". 30 years later, there are weapons which are just as good, and some that are even marginally superior in that specific role, but until the MP5s wear out, no one is going to be able to budget to completely replace them. Oh, wait, the MP5s ARE wearing out.

A firearm is a tool, nothing more or less, designed for a particular role and best used in that role. Just like you while you can use a screwdriver as a prybar and as a chisel, don't whine if it does a poor job of either, and after a while doesn't work so well as a screwdriver any more.