First, I would like to extend my gratitude to the Forum and all those involved in discussions. I have learned a great deal in the last year and much of it is due to all of your involvement. Thank you!

Now, on to something related to my last post (What will you drive & how far will you go?). In order to avoid the “chicken with head cut off response” (CWHCOR?) that we often see, pre-during and post disasters, I believe displacement pre-planning is essential.

These pre-planning needs to include:
1. Various kits (all needs related to survival H2O FAK PSK, etc., (these have been discussed at length.)
2. Directional coordination, maps and/or GPS & proper use knowledge.
3. Pre identified safe-harbor locations.
4. Vehicles.

So, this list differs only slightly from a regular pre-planned camping trip, (or going to visit friends and family), the only difference is the time spent preparing and some of the materials may be more long-term related. Comments?

One HUGE difference is the travel times involved. Driving 250 miles under normal circumstances is no problem. Driving that same distance while several million other people are trying to do the same is an absolute nightmare.

You need some safe way to store extra gas and water, not to mention a vehicle in excellent shape. Driving 5mph for ten hours is very hard on a car.

-Blast

Both in response to this thread and ther the other on bugging-out, here are some other questions to pre-answer:

1. What will you bug out for? Hurricane, firestorm, chemical release...

2. When will you bug-out? This applies mostly to hurricane situations where you can see them coming for many days in advance. 48 hours or less from forcast landfall will put you in gridlock. 72 hours before will get you heavy traffic.

If you're planning to bug-out with an RV, be aware of this: I live 150+ miles from the Mississippi gulf coast, The center of Katrina passed about 40 miles to our east and we had hurricane force winds sustained for several hours with higher gusts. Areas to our east and more than 100 miles north along Katrina's path expirenced sustained winds of over 100 MPH. So, if you're using an RV, plan on going to a location outside of the forcast track variability.

This is an unknown and variable depending on where you live and what the threat may be.

You're point is very valid. I would not want to be caught in an RV with high winds, nor would a person want to be caught in traffic during a chemical spill or worse.... All these conditions are worthy of evaluation taking into consideration one's own surrounding and mobility conditions.

It's hard to beat a pickup with a camper shell or a good SUV as a bug out vehicle. What works for a long camping trip is going to be ideal for evacuation.

The best bet seems to be to shelter in place as long as you can and only evacuate if you have to. If it is not the EOWAWKI water and supplies will be trucked into cities until utilities can be restored.

What may be desirable is a radiation shelter in case of a nuclear explosion. The blast radius is not as large as we have been let to believe and the radiation drops down to non-lethal levels within a few days.

The biggest PIA would be if the authorities required you to evacuate. Stores would be cleaned out in all directions out of any large city. The group shelters, in the case of a large event, would not be fun. The authorities may not give us an option of where to evacuate to.

Good point. Nuclear weapons, horrible as they are, are not as horrible if one learns something about them.
Here is a great reference if you don't know about it already.
Nuclear war survival skills

Well, they aren't horrible in the sense that if you ignore that they annihilate every living thing for miles, those far enough away from the radiation and heat can survive the fallout if sufficiently bunkered for a few weeks. Of course, that also ignores the economic, social, and human aspect of devestation. Yeah... not so horrible. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

One atomic bomb is bad in the blast zone and for about 3 days or so around it and downwind. The rest of the world (& US) will look at the devastation on TV and think they are glad it wasn't them.

But what is the likelihood of a single bomb? If I were a meglomaniac terrorist with power and money, I would think the best way to do it would be to truck the bombs to the desired location (cheaper and more accurate than ICBMs or whatever they're called these days), they couldn't be tracked by radar, if the CIA/FBI did get word of them they wouldn't do anything in time, they could have timed detonations, etc, etc, etc.

And, could someone remind me of the type of bomb that doesn't seem to have an explosive blast, it just spreads a particular type of radiation that kills every living thing (excepting maybe rats and cockroaches), and leaves the buildings standing for possession by the invaders? It is a neutron bomb? Of course, true terrorists probably wouldn't use one of these, as the destruction is as important to them as the killing.

Sue

Yep, Neutron Bomb Susan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_bomb

Kill every human, leave the infrastructure (kill the electronics though) and walk in a few days later when the radiation has dissipated. Thoroughly nasty.

I wonder if it would be advisable to let certain party's like I...., S...... etc know that if that happens, we ain't going to bother asking who?
History of the Human Race: Build a rock, Build a BIGGER rock, Build a BIGGER, BIGGER Rock.
Depressing isn't it? <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

You're right Leigh. Our knee-jerk reaction may be to lay waste to the cradle of civilization.

MAD, or Mutually Assured Destruction rests on the principle that both entities care about their existence. Extemists/Fundamentalists who are already prepared to face their maker really don't care, so you are left with only 1 party and a broken paradigm (to use an overly-abused term).

If the West was to retaliate against several targets in the Middle East for razing... Chicago and London let's say, we would be annihilating countless millions. Is it the right thing to do if they support or at least tolerate the terrorism that got us to this point? We are still debating the necssity of Hiroshima and Nagasaki 50 years later, so I don't expect an answer.

But I do fully expect to see someone drop or detonate a nuclear device within my lifetime (hostile, not test). And once it does, we'll find radiation gear at Wal*Mart. Made in China, of course. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I should not post this but:

A small nuke on a small plane, detonated over a large city, would have the greatest effect. Air bursts are more effective than a ground burst as any web site about nuclear war will reveal.

There may or may not be soviet briefcase nukes in the US. They may or may not be in the hands of radicals. They may or may not have access to small airplanes.

They do have access to a lot of money that can get them things we do not want them to have.

> But what is the likelihood of a single bomb?

"I'm not afraid of the man who wants ten nuclear weapons, Colonel. I'm terrified of the man who only wants one." - From The Peacemaker.

I'm not afraid of the man who wants ten nuclear weapons, Colonel. I'm terrified of the man who only wants one."

In certain situations, that is true. Esp if you have one hated enemy and you are the one he hates most of all.

But I would suspect that terrorists may think differently: DC, NY, LA, Chicago, etc. "In for a penny, in for a pound".

Sue

Yep, you got a point, Sue. Airliners have been hijacked or have been attempted to be hijacked SEVERAL at a time, instead of just "one," if you wanted to use that as a comparison. But if my memory serves me correct, I recall once well over 20 years ago where a college student here in the U.S. made his own 'nuclear bomb' and the feds had to confiscate it. On the news one night, gone the next. You never can tell what some "nut" might do.

Guess what I've got in my basement!!! <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Guess who might be on the way to your house? IOW, watch yer mouth, junior. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Reading your message while clipping rounds into the magazine.......<img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Reading your message while clipping rounds into a magazine.......<img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Not talking about me visiting, Jim. Maybe Yoduh, wants to though, I noticed his mouth watering, LOL. Besides, with the way you noticed us "Yanks" would carry out an assault, you wouldn't stand a chance LOL.....neither would your whole house....LOL

AND BESIDES -- What is a 16-yr old in the Netherlands doing with a firearm also?LOL

BTW, "Yanks" is a misnomer where I come from as you probably already gathered. I know, I know, what can I say, I am the direct descendant of three Confederate Soldiers.

Later dude,

Simon. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

"BTW, "Yanks" is a misnomer where I come from as you probably already gathered. I know, I know, what can I say, I am the direct descendant of three Confederate Soldiers."

Now see, I'm confused. I thought that we were all Yanks. Didn't Sheridan civilize all of you guys a long time ago? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Just kidding.... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

No offense taken: At the start of the war the story of the common Tennessean who owned no slaves and whose house was burned down by Northern raiders for no reason goes much untold.......I mentioned 3 fought for the South.......I didn't mention the fourth who fought for the North (we don't talk about him dang it <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> ).LOL

Was it Sherman you were referring to instead of Sheridan? Easy to get those names crossed.

Probably a hot water heater, chistmas decorations, and some photos Jim wishes were never taken. :P

Realistically, the only really hard parts of making a nuke are getting your fissionables, and machining them without killing yourself. And the latter isn't really that hard, just expensive.

Of course, if you want simple, two masses of U-238 or Pu, literally in the hands of someone with a death wish and a very high pain tolerance, qualifies as a nuke.

Sheri (who my grandmother was named for, actually) had some help.

Although I'm partial. My maternal greatgrandmother's maiden name was Sherman.

*dives for cover before the southron jaws are off the floor*

Don't dive for cover, its all in the past.....one of my 3 CSA ancestors rode with Nathan Bedford Forrest all the way through the Battle of Chickamauga until he came down with typhoid. *Stands and shrugs, and says "twas a hunnerd years 'fore I was born"*

Try: LHC. Like a Headless Chicken.

I'm scared of someone with a nuclear weapon. I'm more scared of someone who can assemble ten very large FAEs (tanker truck size) and stick a few boxes of medical radioactive waste in with each one.

It will look a lot like a nuke, and the giegers will click. And you know the media will be all over the guy with the clicking box- a live exclusive on every network and news channel. That's all it would take to start a full fledged panic, which would effect locations other than the targetted ones, and even in the target cities the reaction of paniced, terrified people would probably rival the damage of a few thousand gallons of propane and a couple tons of explosives.

And it would just take time and money to legally procure and possition the components. You could move them by truck, by train, by boat, and so long as you have the proper manifests, you can ship the explosives in one lot, the propane tank(s) in an another, and assemble it in an evening.

Maybe it was Sherman, although for some reason I thought Sheridan burned a few farms out your way as well. Guess it's time to break out the Ken Burns series again. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As Simon said, it's history now. Although the subject can still raise a few hackles in some quarters.... especially that name! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yanky doodle-background music. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Heee-Haaa!! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Both sides burned farms when on the other side's soil or when dealing with those they felt had been traitors. That's a time honored tradition, going back to the beginning of organized warfare, becuase if you burn the evidence, it is harder for the powers to be to prove you were looting.

Sheridan and Sherman made an organized practice out of it- they were systematically targetting logistics, which was relatively new at the time.

Would that be air-soft rounds? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Let's say it like this: Air-soft ''weapons'' are harder to get in The Netherlands than real weapons. Go figure.......

(Allthough you can now have a semi-automatic MP-5 in the Netherlands!!!!! <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />)