Greatings; I hope I find you all well. Anybody ever hear the expression " When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change"? I was thinking about a thread on another site, that was talking about the kinds of stuff backpackers/hikers carry that would be applicable in a survival situation. Generally not much specific survival stuff, but what if you looked at how the stuff that you carry would function in a what if situation? It seams to me that if we were to select our backpacking equipment as "survival" gear, we would end up with a rather large, very complete,functional survival kit that we were very familier with because we used it more frequently than I would guess most of us use or pratice with our kits. Heck, even with the "normal" loadout that I carried when in BSA and after, I was much more equipped to handle any emergency that might crop up then I an now with "only" access to my EDC. Yes mindset and knowlege and hopefully judgment has increased over the years, but I think if more backpackers started looking as their stuff less as recreational gear and more as survival gear. there would be minimal changes in general with marked increases in durabillity, functionallity and personal viabillity should the situation arise. Thoughts? Respectfully; Jim

aligator,

I think what you are saying is that good backpacking gear is also very good survival gear. Am I correct?

What is BSA?

Also, please try to have some paragraph breaks between your paragraphs, thus separating out different ideas. This is not intended as a personal insult in any way, so please don't feel offended. It is just to make it easier for others to read.

thanks

Your quite right.The "survival" part is more to do with the gear you carry in your "inner" ring. That's the equipment that you are dead without. Or at least in a world of hurt.

BSA=Boy Scouts of America

Well, backpacking gear IS survival gear.

My impression of the original target of the ETS site is someone like the day hiker that doesn’t remotely consider the possibility that he might need to spend the night in the woods. Or the pilot flying over snow-covered mountains in shirt-sleeves because, hey, that’s what the cabin heater is for.

Now, a backpacker can be just as unprepared as a day hiker if what he carries is only sufficient if everything goes exactly as planned. Does he have a compass in case he gets off the trail? N days worth of extra food? Enough water in case the next source listed in the trail guide is no longer there? Clothing appropriate for extremes in weather?

There seems to be an unwritten rule for survival kits: The gear must never be designed exactly for its intended purpose. You’ll never find a tent in a survival kit, you’ll find a tarp so you can “improvise a tent”. You’ll find a “space blanket” instead of a sleeping bag or a wool blanket. Instead of a metal cup or cookpot for boiling water, you have tin foil or a shallow tin. Instead of a box of 50 matches good for 50 fires, you’ll get a sparker which is good for thousands of fires but only a couple pieces of prepared tinder.

Ok, I admit I’m being facetious here because most of the time a survival kit must be a compromise based on size, weight and cost. I’m just hoping to get us out of the rut of the way we think of survival gear. Or survival in general. Life IS survival.

A survival kit is like a SAK. It's not a full 30 piece toolbox but it can do most of the basics in a pinch. The SK is the same. Its impractical (so far) to get a tent or a kettle in your pockets. In your pack/bag? Yes. Pockets? No. They are there as a backup. Just in case something separates you from your main kit.

Greatings All, Thanks for the feedback. No offence taken. Is an axe, sized appropriatly for season, trip duration, ect. a survival tool? How about a saw? Maybe its the saw on your SAK, or maybe it's my folding exchange balde Gerber or my two man cross cut? What about how your choices in clothing on a day to day basis affect your survival quotent? I guess my point is that most of the equipment that I would hope to have access to in a situation, won't "fit" in my pockets or on my person as EDC, but to my mind that dosn't disqualify it as survival gear. Why isn't a tent considered as kit? I'd much rather boil water in a real cook kit then in aluminum foil. I think it comes down to what options you can access at the time of an incident. I believe in a layered approach, and while I train with my ETS survival kit, that is always on my person or very near by, I hope to access somthing better. If that happens to be a functional sturdy comfortable backpack containing a carfully chosen tent, sleeping bag, ground pad and cook kit, I just might feel like going camping <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Respectfully; Jim

Hey Jim,

I think the point was that EDC kit needs to be small and compact... there are tradeoffs of size, weight, and such, but it should be versatile, and small enough to be something you would carry ALWAYS. Whereas a backpacker's survival kit, repleat with tent and axe and whatnot stuffed into a pack could be torn from him during a fall, or some other accident. A small PSK/PSP in a zippered pocket of your pants is much harder to lose.

I think anyone here would say that at least some backpacking or camping gear is survival gear. But a lot of it is comfort/convenience gear.

I'd argue that a lightweight chainsaw in a PSK is pretty functional. And you can split wood with a solid fixed blade knife. Together they take up far less room and are much more "flexible" in terms of what they can do. I can use some paracord and toss a chain saw 10 ft. above me to take down a branch if need be. Kinda tough to climb and do the same with an axe safely. Anyway, I see it as Backpack/Camping gear being more of the same... maybe less "flexible", heavier weight and bigger bulk, but possibly more convenient mono-taskers. I don't know if you really asked a question here that was different from your other post, but if I've missed the point, please clarify.

Took me a while to get that one....... I thought: what the hell is Massacre doing, tossing a chainsaw (gasoline powered) on a piece of paracord above him....... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I guess ointments can't treat those injuries! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I know there are guys who juggle (and toss) gas powered chainsaws. I'm not one of them. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As Jim figured out and I may not have spelled out... I mean the hand powered style that can stow in a pocket kit.