I guess that makes sense.

The reason for carrying gear is three fold.

First is time.
Sure I can start a fire by rubbing 2 Boy Scouts together. Standard primitive skills training. Scenario I just fell through the ice. I'm soaking wet and my cloths are freezing stiff. The seconds or minutes between using a match or lighter versus constructing a bow drill and getting the fire going. That little bit of time could mean the difference. So gear buys you the time it takes to make the tool to make the tool you need.

Second is quality.
Sure I can make a cutting implement from the things I could find around me. But a steel knife blade works a lot better and lasts longer.

Third is confidence.
If TSHTF tell me you will not feel more self assured just knowing that the gear is available. That alone may make the problem smaller. At least in your mind and therefore easier to over come. Remember panic can kill you quicker than just about anything else. Just the time of breaking open a kit puts your mind in survival mode thinking. It keys your thinking from the situation back to your training.

By this do I mean forget learning primitive skills HE Double hockey sticks NO!!!

The skills are a great back up if your gear is lost, damaged or inadequate. Also if things last longer than expected they can improve your lot in the situation. Is gear the end all be all. No. You can only carry so much. How you use it, the skills to use it and the ability to make what you need from what is available is how you survive.

Ok in your local area you are close to civilization. But you broke one or maybe both legs. Regardless of your skills you ain't going anywhere or any other injuries that anchor you in place.

Why a whistle. Your stuck in a hole where you fell causing the injuries you have. You here search parties looking for you. You did leave your plans with someone so they are looking for you. You cry out. What issues from your mouth is a croak barely above a whisper. You yelled out your voice hours ago. The whisle summons friendly folk to get you to aid. Need I say more. But you say I can whisle so why carry one. Try it some time with a split lip. Facial injuries are possable too.

Mirror. As above. Not only can it signal for help but it works as a mirror. Helps you treat that split lip or any other injuries that you can't view directly.

For any other gear there are similar reasons.

I live in central Pa. While heavily populated there are stretches where there is nothing for 20 and 30 miles. Then think of places like Canada and Alaska you can be talking in hundreds.

Then because of terrain, injuries or both you can't travel. And you may not be able to hunt or trap effectively or even fashion the gear to do so. So plentiful game might not be readily available. Or it could be the season. Need more be said.

Most kits are designed to be area specific but they also cover enough generalized gear to work after a fashion anywhere.

I have spent many days wandering in the wild breaking out nothing more than my knife. But you better believe I carry emergency gear just in case. As for a 50 pound pack but if I tried to carry that much with my back. It would probably kill me quicker than the wild woods.

You all make some good points. In my particular situation, the only reason I would find myself in a position to survive long periods of time in the wilderness is either by choice or if world war III comes to my area. In either of these situations, the decisions to bug out will be voluntary. I have such a large bag simply to get me where I am going and, once there, to get me established. Also in either of these situations, my main goal is to get as far from civilization as possible. I already have several places ready to go, and there will be people there to assist who, like me, have honed their skills over many years and should have a camp already established by the time I get there. Believe it or not, they have more gear than me. As for injuries, I am prepared to handle almost any injury except the most severe and my companions are in the same shape. I try to be ready for anything at all, including the loss of all of my gear. Primiive methods may be slow and inefficient but sometimes they are all you have. I have actually been in that situation and while breaking out the gear is a good motivator, so is cutting timber for an improvised shelter, starting fire without benifit of maches or a lighter, and whittling out a figure four deadfall. In favt, I have a snare set up at work to get rid of some pesky raccoons, but they seems to prefer a live trap to a snare as I've probably caught and relocated half a dozen in the last few weeks (the snare is a recent addition and I can tell we are thinning out the population cause nohing has messed with either one in over a week.) I actually have been in situations where I was injured and required to survive and believe me it isn't easy. There have been times when I only had the use of one hand or one leg and I would rather lose a hand than a leg. At least mobility is still an option that way and if you can move, you are not defeated yet. I can still work one handed although I've never tried to work a fire bow one handed (In fact, I carry oher methods of fire production so that has never been a problem.) At any rate, survival is not contingent on any one thing. It's all based on what you can do with what you have. I try to have all my bases covered. If and when the time comes to test my skills, the people most likely to make it are the ones that are prepared, and I am going to be one of those.

Hi and welcome to the forum. There are two things I have to ask you about your posts.
First, since you include a surgical kit, does that mean that you or someone you are likely to be with is a qualified surgeon? Or do you have the kit for other uses(I know that hemostats, foceps, and scalpel blades are useful for many things besides surgery)?

Second, your posts implied that every time you go camping, you construct shelters that require damaging and singnificantly altering the surronding environment, the opposite of leave-no-trace ethics. Whether your using living or dead wood and regardless of the technique, I'm pretty sure that any shelter that requires a saw or hatchet to build will leave a very noticeable trace.
Please correct me if I'm misinterpreting your post, but if I understand correctly, then what your doing is selfish and irresponsible. Many people, like you, like to be in wilderness without seeing any evidence of human presence. Seeing sawed or chopped brances, remnants of a shelter, or worst of all a fire pit(which can last hundreds of years), definitely indicates human presence.

I understand the need to practice survival skills, and it can be difficult to balnce that with leave-no-trace principles, but I think that should be reserved for areas which are already clearly impacted by humans.

Just keep in mind urbansurvivalist, there is an awful lot of land that is privately owned. People can do whatever the heck they want with it as long as it doesn't break the law. How would a person be expected to take such a question/statement on their environmental ethic if they were practicing their survival skills on their own property? Think about it.

If I owned a hundred acres of woods, and I know people that own that much and much more, I would say "It's my property." Heck, they're clearing entire forests again for hardwood alot in the last 10 years here in TN anyway, just for the cash. The woods next to your yard can be there one day and gone the next.

I do believe and practice the ethic of leaving no trace and taking only memories with me, but not everyone is a so-called "tree-hugger."

Locally here, groups have started to adopt stretches of river like stretches of highway to clean up litter and such. Man, it sure needs it. I am just starting to look into this program.

Assuming that you know how to use it, the right gear can turn an incident from a major calamity into a managable annoyance.

You bring up a good point. I should start off by saying that just because I can build long term shelters that I can live in for extended periods of time does not mean that I always do. Most of the time I string a tarp up and simply use that. As far as leaving traces of my presence, I don't worry about that much since up until recently I camped out on the edge of a swamp where absolutely noone ever goes. It is on private land and from the time I started to this very day, not one single person has ever set foot there except for me, so beautification has really not been an issue so far. Even if it was, I camoflage my camps both while I'm there and when I leave since in a survival situation, I may not want hostiles invading my camp. I dare say you would have a really hard time finding where I've been.
As far as fire goes, how long would it take for the average person to go through all their survival fire gear? When I go out for weeks at a time, I really don't want to carry a ton of fuel and besides, the woods are full of fuel, in fact, the woods ARE fuel. Not only that, but all of my trash can be burnt in the fire and I do mean all of it. Even aluminum cans burn up. I have to show people that one from time to time.
I don't really understand this whole "irresponsible" comment. Everything we do impacts the environment and camping is certainly no exception. Even under ideal circumstances, people leave traces when they leave.If I want to survive, the environment will have to make some adjustments and that is one thing mother nature is exceptional at. For regular camping, I leave minimal impact, but if I am in a survival position, then I will do whatever it takes. Anyone that says they wouldn't is either lying or they will die.
The field surgical kit is a very handy ting to have. It has scisssors, hemostats, a scalpel, two suture kits, and a pen light. I can think of lots of uses for each of these items and yes, I can sew up someone if I have to. I hope that it doesn't come to that but if it does, I'm ready for it.
Just to put things into perspective for you, I plan for the long haul. If I have to bug out for a short time, then I won't problem, but in a worst case survival situation, I have no idea how long I will be there. I don't want to die because I am afraid to make a substantial shelter for fear of disturbing a bunny, or make a fire pit because I am afraid I will spoil the view for someone later. If this is a problem for people, I appologize, but Ive noticed that even Les Stroud builds a fire out on the ground, and even kills animals, not because he has to, but so you have something to watch on TV. That seems a little irresponsible under the terms you've described. I do exactly what I have to, no more, no less. I don't like to complicate things if I don't have to, and I certainly don't want to do alot of work for no reason. I only build a shelter and a fire if I absolutely have to.
I hope that explains my position a little clearer for you.

Okay, I'll jump in...

Our ancestors around the world have been utilizing the resources around them to survive for thousands of years.

There's no reason to exploit them, but they are there to be used. Not used up, but used.

I read an interesting article from a very left-leaning, more liberal newpaper a couple of years ago. The article stated that since we have been protecting our forests (rightfully so) and clamping down on commercial logging, timber companies have had to turn elsewhere to obtain wood: outside of the U.S.

This in turn has driven the price of wood products up (along with the current war effort and housing growth) and stripped other lands in other countries of their own resources.

We also have a problem with our forests being choked with underbrush and other fuels, creating a huge fire danger. Some of this can be alleviated by thinning of certain areas. The money being spent each year on firefighting resources is phenomenal. Not to mention the recent rise in California and elsewhere of building homes in the wildland areas, only to have them burn down in years to come.

Responsible use and responsible stewardship is the name of the game. If I owned land and wanted to cut down some trees for a building site, or for a lean-to, quite frankly, it's no one's business but my own.

And in a way, cutting dead limbs that are low-hanging is doing a favor to the tree; you are removing the "ladder fuels" that allow forest fires to sweep up and into the tree.

Just my .02 <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Right on! I know there are lots of reasons people give for not using the natural resources in an area, but very few people realize that our presence can have positive effects as well. I get so tired of hearing about how everything damages the environment. I see animals all the time making homes out of discarded trash that people pile up (I do not condone dumping trash or anything like that so bear that in mind later when the replies come.). I think the biggest problem people have with clearing sites and fire pits and all of these other things is that they think it spoils the look of the outdoors (not that they put much thought into it while they were clearing the land to build a nice new split level with pool) and they seem to have this "save the whales" complex that causes rational thought to jump out the window. Everyone on this board contributes daily to the clearcutting of land somewhere yet they have no problem with their cellular provider clearing a swath of land so they can get better reception. No one cries foul when their SUV that uses 4 gallons per mile belches out toxic carbon monoxide. No one says that cows are animals too so lets not eat that big juicy steak that was taken from a steroid ridden cow raised on hundreds of acres that used to be wild animal habitat. I'm all for environmenal consciousness but there is a point that it gets ridiculous. The day that someone gives up civilization altogether and no longer supports anything at all that damages the environment, that's the day I will listen to what they have to say. Until then the little three foot patch of earth that I clear away so that I can cook my meal on the dead limbs I picked up off the ground, will not be a major environmental factor. I feel like the small spot I pick to camp in (which I use on a regular basis by the way) is just the spot that one animal (me) picked as his territory. It happens every day with other animals, why not this one?

Actaully, for a long term bug out, you are better off going some place where you are known and expected. Or not bugging out at all.

Everyone who's been here a while has heard me say this- if you aren't known to a landholder in an emergency, and you are squatting on that land, you are stealing from him. In emergencies, the law recognizes the rights of a landholder to deal with looters on thier own. And sure, you might be able to get one or two, but an entire town, good luck.

Trust me, stay in the city. You'll live longer, not becuase you are less likely to be shot for looting, but becuase that is where anything worth looting is stockpiled. Stored food, medicines, fuel, those are all stored in suburbia in warehouses built before the burbs sprawled out around them. Plus you ahve shelter, and seed, and the big military depots tend to be near urban areas. In the rural parts of the country, if we tried living off the land, we'd be eating eachother in six months tops, simply due to game being reduced by habitat destruction, and to crop and storage failure.

Not to mention too many *censored for ten minutes* flatlanders.