Hey Andy,<br><br>I knew you weren't adamantly opposed to shotguns, you pointed out the advantages of each. You actually made the decision tough(in a good way), because your argument for handguns was so persuasive. I am VERY glad you aren't a defense lawyer. <br><br>I think an important factor for us that I didn't mention was the learning curve. I am not at ALL suggesting that my wife is slow-lol-but she probably will not want to spend more time than is necessary to be adequately prepared. Generally I think that people who are good at something complicated tend to underestimate how difficult a skill it is to master. I think this is really true of using handguns properly for self defense as opposed to target practice. When you talk about one handed use, and properly clearing a room, you are into some pretty sophisticated tactical stuff that many of us " should not try at home."<br><br>You know, I had never thought of my "storm room" as a "self-defense room as you suggested. That was really interesting and I would like to hear more about how you do that. I never thought to set it up that way.<br><br>I appreciate your advice on proper loads for defense. The physics involved with a shotgun can be tricky. I had a murder case a few years ago where the murder weapon was a shotgun. I was initially confused by the scene because the victim fell forward after being shot, which surprised me. It took our expert a while to explain that to me, and not sure I fully understand it yet. Fortunately, though, the jury had no problem with it. LOL<br><br>Take good care and thanks again for your help.<br><br>Robb

Robb,<br><br>Some target shooting can do a great deal to familiarize both of you with the operation, handling, & pointing, of a shotgun as well as its capabilities. Typical police shotguns have 18-20" barrels with cylinder or improved cylinder chokes. Such configurations are excellent for shooting skeet.<br><br>Try using ammunition appropriate for skeet. It will have #9 shot, which is the smallest shot size readily available. Trap & skeet loads tend to be low powered & light in recoil. That is conducive to learning to shoot well. As I indicated in my earlier post on this subject, lower powered loads--lower in weight of shot charge, lower in velocity, lower in weight of gunpowder--will tend to have less recoil. You will not only shoot more comfortably, but also with more endurance & fun with lower recoiling loads. That will in turn lead to proficiency & confidence in the use of the guns. Good experiences in target shooting will overcome any misconceptions your wife may have re the "kick" of shotgun. Incidentally, have no illusions re the recoil of the higher powered loads (including most magnums & rifled slugs). They do recoil significantly; however the recoil will not be anything an experienced shooter cannot handle (whether he will want to or not, or do so well are different questions). You can get a fairly good idea of the recoil of load in advance by calculating it (see my earler post re Recoil in guns ca 2/28/02).<br><br>Unless your wife, and you for that matter, happen to have the dimensions (e.g., arm & neck length, & neck thickness) of the average man for whom the shotgun is designed, you may need to have the stock altered. If the stock is too long (butt to trigger dimension), have someone skilled in gunsmithing cut off the appropriate length of stock. I have seen a number of Remington shotguns with factory recoil pads which seem designed to rival the wood in hardness. Have a gunsmith fit a good recoil pad such as a Pachmayr Decelerator (tm) to molify the recoil. Adding a slip on recoil pad over whatever is there presently will also lengthen the pull of shotgun stock about 1" That is helpful for us taller people. Remember if you remove the existing recoil pad & replace it with a new pad, you will be maintaining approximately the same length of pull on the stock. If the gun shoots high, a pad can be added to the comb (top of stock where the face touches) to lower the point of impact. If a gun is shooting low, its point of impact can be raised by having a gunsmith reduce the height of the comb.<br><br>Awhile back, I acquired an obsoleted police Rem. 870 12 ga. shotgun. I added a slip on recoil pad to conveniently increase the length of pull by about 1". I also added a Choate extended magazine tube to increase the gun's total capacity to 7 rounds; and a Tac Star Sidesaddle to carry an additional 5 rounds clamped to the left side of the receiver. These last 2 additions significantly change the appearance & image of the gun. I'm not so sure that if a jury had to consider my potential criminal/civil liability after what is euphimistically called a serious social use that the jury would look favorably on the gun. OTOH, if I ever have a situation requiring that shotgun, I will probably be glad to have the extra rounds so readily available. Those changes also changed the gun's balance, & increased weight, thereby decreasing recoil. If you make any such changes, be sure to shoot the gun fully loaded & nearly empty to learn how differently it feels.<br><br>Good luck,<br><br>John

Congratulations. FWIW, I think you made a very good choice. Not saying it's the only very good choice.. but then, I own three 870's myself, so I'm a little partial to them. :-)<br><br>I'm assuming that these will be old enough not to have the new "lawyer-lock" safety that the newest 870's have. That being the case, somewhere down the road you might want to look into an oversize button safety for each. I'm very fond of them myself- it makes it much easier to disengage the safety with your trigger finger- you can do it without shifting grip or "hunting" for it,especially if you've forgotten the saftey and already tried to pull the trigger- but it doesn't seem to make it any easier to disengage by accident. It's my single favorite 870 mod (and there are a lot of them). They're getting harder to find, but I think I have a link somewhere...<br><br>>> As certain as one might feel, I would submit that only those of you who have been there and done that know for sure.<<<br><br>Not even most of those, I'm afraid. How each of us reacts to a crisis varies a great deal depending on the circumstances, degree of preparation or surprise, maybe just the mood you're in when it happens. I'm not sure anyone knows with certainty how they'll handle the next one.<br><br>There has been a lot of very high quality advice on this thread, but there's one small point that hasn't been mentioned, and doesn't get mentioned nearly enough in the subject of home defense with firearms. Because of the lifelong conditioning of movies and television, almost nobody- even those who have practiced at the range with hearing protection- is prepared for the noise of a firearm going off inside a small room with no hearing protection. Often people are so shocked by the sheer magnitude of the sound that they are stunned into inaction- whichever side they are on. Nor are they prepared for being largely deaf for minutes afterwards. <br><br>I don't know of any adequate way to prepare for this without risking damage to your hearing- but you should at least be aware of it. Scenes in the movies where someone lets loose a large firearm in a living room and the conversation continues, or police trade banter after firing a 44 magnum in a concrete stairwell, are dangerous fantasies.

Robb,<br><br><br>First of all, I haven't went back and read my previous posts, but I am pretty sure I never mentioned "clearing a room." I am not qualified to do so, nor am I brave/crazy enough to do so. I would leave that to the braver, qualified, paid to do that people except in an extreme (very extreme) circumstance. I would be far more likely to abandon the house before I did that. Clearing a house, untrained and alone, is akin to volunteering to walk into an ambush. Get your family into one place, hole up, call the cavalry and let the SOB who invaded your home walk into an ambush. You'll live longer that way. I know ABOUT this stuff, I don't KNOW it. I apologize if I unintentionally gave an impression otherwise on that. My knowledge comes from lots of research and hanging out with guys who did this for a living. They let me play sometimes, but I have no real expertise.<br><br>Rather than go into the subject of "safe rooms" and such (it's a fairly lengthy discussion), if you'll send me your snail mail via PM or e-mail, I'll mail you a book and some magazine articles which cover the subject in detail.<br><br>Mr. Baker and Mr. Lost had some good points in other posts, particulary on fitting the shotgun. One addition--fit the shotgun to your wife, assuming that she is smaller than you. It will be much easier for you to "choke up" on a smaller stock than it will be for her to try and stretch to reach the controls.<br><br>Take care,<br><br>Andy <br><br>