Hi people.
I'm the new kid on the block on ETS and have been reading what and how most of you guys "do things"...for a few years now.
I am surprised at how few of the members use wood for fuel when hiking or camping outdoors.
My backpacking camp kitchen consists of 1.) a kelly kettle for boiling (and sterilising) water faster and cheaper than anything else on the market. 2.) a Trailstove, which in transport sits inside the kelly kettle and also does a fantastic job cooking my meals (fast!). and last but not least a grilliput (which was only recently added as it is a fairly new concept) which is a stainless steel bbq that folds into next to nothing and in transport lives inside the kelly kettle/ trailstove combo. These three items combined don't weigh much (less than your cooker with fuel) and do a far better job than the bulk of gas, fluid and solid fuel cookers I've been using in the past ! Also you're not lugging around fuel and the cannisters/bottles it comes in. The minute your hike starts you're tripping over fuel everywhere for this combo.
And if you plan to go above the tree line pick up some wood or pine cones on your way up. Purpose now defeated ? Nope, because this would be the ONLY TIME you actually carry fuel vs. carrying ALL THE TIME. And let's face it it is extremely difficult to run out of fuel and since there is nothing to break this combo is virtually idiot-proof. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
All the bases covered and the best thing about it is they don't burn just wood. They happily digest almost anything you feed them: bark, paper, pine cones, dry grass, peat, dung and garbage you otherwise would have to carry out. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

So, why aren't more people using these things and still clinging to their liquid/gas/solid fuel burners. <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Let me know what you think !
Regards,
Pharaoh.

Last weekend I spent a few days in the woods and I just improvised a stove. I had 4 stainless steel skewers and just laid them across the rocks around my fire and put rocks on top of them, worked great. I always use wood. It's easier than packing fuel. I have the kind of skewers that have the ring on the end so I just secure the ends with a tie wrap and clip them to the outside of my pack with a carbiner. I use carbiners for everything.

Another one from the Netherlands....Welcome!

woodfires are usually restricted in many area, so is scavaging for wood. A woodfire needs more carefull handeling, to prevent forest fire's. Many people don't clean up there firewood coals and ashes properly.
Also woodfires have less accurate control and keeping a little fire going with damp wood can be a pain.

I occasionally use open woodfires to cook, but only on special places, where it's legal and safe. A billycan is good enough for that purpose. Don't even have to carry a stove than.

btw, welcom fellow dutchie.

Usually, the only wood that can be collected is public areas of the US is wood that is already "dead & down." No sawing or breaking allowed.

So, you have limited availibility. The good stuff is usually taken in the more crowded areas. Plus, because the wood has to be "down," it has been sitting on the ground soaking up moisture if it has rained recently.

Hiking in the US is fairly restrictive when it comes to campfires or open flames. For example, most of this year there was a burn ban for the state of Oklahoma...not even charcoal was allowed, so it's much easier to continue hiking and just carry the fuel as you say.

Also, when it's pouring down rain...I can still brew up a nice cup of tea using the rain fly and my stove...might not be possible with regular wood fire. Although is you use a hobo stove type set up...it might work, but you would really have to keep the flames low and it might take eons to get the heat up.

Just my opinion <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

In addition to the finite supply (if everyone does it, there is no wood left) and wildfire risk (if you light a fire, you are morally responsible for EVERY spark and ember created, including the ones you don't see) issues, there is another one.

I know that in Europe, most land that isn't heavily settled or farmed is public land (Not all, just most), and you don't have our drug problem (I refuse to debate who's method is stupider). As a result, you don't get an issue we have in my area, which is tresspassers who are doing more than just burning wood. Private land owners who see campfires that they didn't know about get a little crazy- it's often a sign of someone putting in a marijuna patch on your land, or that they have packed in a miniature meth lab. Either of which could cost the landowner, who had nothing to do with it, thier property. At the very least, if the land holder calls it in, you get cops showing up with the fire department. And it doesn't have to be the land holder, just someone driving by who spots the fire and is being a good neighbor.

Pharaoh, maybe your idea of a good time is having a knee in your back and your face in the dirt while you are cuffed and dragged like a sack through the woods, but I'll pass.

Given the Leave No Trace and burn restriction posts here, I think people missed the point. I googled trailstove and found that it was a chiminey type affair that uses wood for fuel and there is at least one other type of chiminey type also. Think wood fired stove. There is another with a battery powered fan out there too, although I cannot remember the name. This is not lighting and cooking over a campfire, this is using wood as a stove fuel. Pharoh is right, an almost unlimited source of fuel especially since these stoves burn so efficiently in comparison to campfires. They use tinder/twigs, not logs. Seems like a good option to me for most locales.

Regards,
Bill

For the past several years there has been a ban on fires, this includes any stove that use wood as fuel. They are good but just seem out of place. If you want to see the really efficent source find an ultralight website and see what the distance hikers recommend.
cheers

I like the traditional campfire and use it where it is permitted and not too dry. Unfortunately, on most of the public land around here campfires are prohibited, except for one or two designated "fire rings" at drive-up campsites.

For instance, in the area where I've camped numerous times, the rules say:

(http://www.nps.gov/dewa/Activities/Hikes/hikeAT.html)

So, is a more-or-less enclosed wood burning stove "self contained"? I don't know. I do know that the smell of wood smoke will get you a visit from an Ranger who is probably expecting to find a bunch of drunken, rowdy kids who stumbled into the woods to build a bonfire and do who knows what else. He may not be in a good mood.

Now, if you are in trouble, don't worry about the rules - go ahead and build a fire. If it does get you a visit from a ranger, that's a good thing, even if he isn't in a good mood.

Finally, there are times when it is just too dry to build any type of wood fire, survival situation or not.

Thank you, JIM and PC2K for the warm welcome <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I think only Angel to a degree and williamlatham absolutely grasped my point ! <img src="/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />
These cooking devices are indeed ENCLOSED FIRE SYSTEMS, bar the Grilliput. There is absolutely no "open fire situation" as compared to let's say a camp fire and there is also no firescarring left on the ground.
This is the exact same thing you are using except the fuel is a lot different/free/in abundance everywhere! <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Also, as williamlatham points out these things are extremely fuel- efficient ! Three or four pinecones, three handfulls of twigs or a read paperback novel IS ALL IT TAKES to cook your meal or boil you water VERY QUICKLY. No kidding ! I'm not burning up whole trees here, this is exactly my point <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Damp wood/woodlike (pinecones; bark; grass, etc.) fuels also are not a problem since the "enclosed furnace/ chimney" system negates this problem same way a chimney-type charcoal starter for your bbq does.
The Grilliput is an entirely different story, as this is actually (albeit a very handy one, since it packs away as small as it does) a basic bbq grid on four legs and does use an open woodfire or charcoal fire. It just made sense to me to add it to the kelly kettle/trailstove combo because it fits inside this combo and uses the same (wood) fuel. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

So again , howcome so few of you use them ? Is it because many people are not aware of their existence, or other ?
Pharaoh.

Thought some links would be nice:

TrailStove
Kelly Kettle
Grilliput

I'm not much of a backpacker, but it looks like clever stuff.

The problem with wood burning stove, are the ashes. Unlike a gas or liquid fuels, which should posses no threath when shut off. But ashes are usually (by some anyways) not properly cooled before they are discarded, thus a danger for wildfires.

Will check the exact dutch law about this, when i got the time.

In California and other mountain areas there is often no campfires or wood burning above 10,000 feet (lack of trees; delicate ecosystem). In a lot of western states it is too dry to burn firewood safely even in a stove like the Sierra Zip Stove.
Yes wood is efficient but not always the right choice and oftern illegal to burn.
In the Sierra wood burning stoves of any kind are not allowed in restricted zones they are considered camp fires.

It's not just out West, there are places in New England where you are looking at three and four digit fines if you are busted with a wood fire. That something is self contained is a boarderline area that might work, but you still have to fight the fine in court and convince a judge that everything was safe.

And Phaorah, that answers part of your question- it isn't worth it. The other part of it is, other than the kelly kettle, these items by these names are new to me, and I think they probably are to other people as well. For example, the grilliput's web site is obviously a european-based one; but now that I've seen a picture of it, we've had guys like this in catalogs for a while. I know the kelly kettle, but I wouldn't carry one simply becuase it's bigger than my entire ditch kit is.

Now, the stratus stove, that is very interesting. Thank you.

But that doesn't change the fact that in most places in the States (which is were most of us are) fire is banned. Remember, we've had a drought in the western third of this country for, what is it guys, 5, 6 years now? I can't remember when the Rockies and souther plains states were NOT in a drought.

Alcohal stoves! Down side there is, they suck in winter, but that is just a matter of chemistry, it has nothing to do with the designs.

One word: Rain

A late welcome to ETS... we're recently returned from taking our scouts backpacking in the Black Elk Wilderness area of the Black Hills of South Dakota.

You cite some merits that I won't disagree with save the weight (mass) - my typical kits (stove, fuel, pots) weigh less than your combo for trips of a few days. Depending on what I am eating, my kit can be a lot lighter.

No contest for trips of long duration - fuel weight and bulk does add up. Also, I prefer to burn wood to make water from ice or snow when I have a chance - hate burning stove fuel for that purpose.

There are plenty of places in the US where these sorts of stoves are OK to use and there are folks who do - but not a high percentage.

From a Leave No Trace standpoint, pick your impact wisely - the Kelly Kettle and Trail Stove can have little impact - perhaps, from a macro view, less than a petrol stove - although that's debatable.

I certainly do not find any fault with using your selections carefully if you like them. And there are extended ETS scenarios to contemplate where they make a great deal of sense.

However, my personal preference for recreational cooking use is petrol or LP gas (from cannister to bulk tank) burning stove, with an occasional brief use of an alcohol stove or Esbit stove (Ready Pack stoves for me). I've used diesel, jet fuel, and kerosine as well but really dislike the hassle with those heavier liquid fuels - neccessary "evils" for fuel in some parts of the world. I'm down to one stove that can burn those fuels and rarely take it along anymore.

Nothing against burning wood - we sit around a campfire at least once a week, and as I wrote, I hate using stove fuel to make water in the wintertime.

Regards,

Tom

As quite a few have noted, the legal use depends on where you are. I like the design, they seem very sensible. However, I know that areas in drought frequently ban all wood fires. The issue is sparks and the coals / hot ash. I would assume that when you burn pine cones or sappy wood, sparks would come out the chimney (I could be wrong, having never seen one in use). When you are done using, the hot ash needs to be put somewhere, hopefully in a fire ring. At that point, it is not much different than if you built the fire in the fire ring in the first place. Most Rangers wouldn't differentiate between the two, the end result is the same. The Ranger wouldn't know if you had or planned to made sure the ash was cool before you left the area. They standardize the rules and the knowlegable have to suffer because fools camp.

Kudos to you Pharaoh for using the BEST all season/purpose stove there is. It's been awhile since I have looked on the forum and I am glad I saw your post. I got a trail stove and have never looked back! In fact I sold my god for saken fuel stove the next day. I think a lot of people don't understand the concept of the trail stove and that is why it isn't as popular, but those who do get it, love it!!!!!!! Well I think I have heard only 3 complaints about it. One is that it gets a little dirty, it takes a little longer to get hot (aren't we out there to relax anyway?) and lastly when the user touched it, it was hot, really <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />, who would have thought.

I lived in the Sierra Nevada Mountains in N.E. CA. and now I live in MT. and I still use it even with fire restrictions. Now before everyone starts getting at me for breaking laws and endangering our forest land and that they hope I get fined there are two things to do to the trail stove to use it in fire restrictions.

First take it in to the ranger station and let them look at it, but I warn you be prepared to demo it for about 3 pots of coffee like I did. They had the same worries as posters said on this thread, sparks, ashes, coals, poppicock! I used all types of wood and only get a few sparks, coals are the best for cooking so technically that is what you want to cook with why would you get ride of them? and ashes????? What that very cool fine gray powder at the bottom of the stove that amounts to maybe 3 table spoons. And if that doesn't settle the fears of the rangers and firefighters then on to plan 2.

Second, bend only three of the taps at the bottom of the stove in a triangle pattern so the grate comes out really easy, go and get a 120 hr Nuwick Candle and when you can't use wood, grass, sagebrush or any of those other weeds that nobody seems to take notice of as they walk past that can be used for fuel, stick that candle in the stove and put the grate back in and WHA-LA a perfect non-wood burning stove that will last you about 62 hours of cooking time. Now how much liquid fuel would one have to carry for that much cooking time?

With this set up I can have a perfectly safe stove that will last me about a year before I have to buy a new candle. Speaking of price, the stove is 25.00 w/ S/H and the candle I believe is like 7.00. So for 32 bucks and about 32 oz I have a stove that can be used anywhere at anytime. No fuel, tanks, pumps, in fact no moving parts period! I have used this in a tent for warmth and cooking. Rain?!?!? Please, the same protection that goes into sheilding a liquid fuel stove from rain to start it is the same for a trail stove. No need to think in terms of seconds for cooking, take your time, boil that extra pot of water so your hiking comrades with their 80 dollar stoves can wash their hands and dishes once dinner is over. Come to think of it, I guess I do have a complaint to this setup. I do all the cooking now <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />