Please don't flame me, but I think if there is a true emergency for anything over 3-5 days those flashlights would eventually become unusable. AAA, AA, C or D size batteries are so much more prevalent. Also LED flashlights run just fine off of them.
Somebody explain to me why those Lithium battery powered flashlights are so hot? <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

There are some advantages. They have a great shelf life (so there is no reason to have no supply at hand). And they function also better by low temperatures.

most lithium powerd lights are usually used in the high performance kind. For most situation that performance is overkill, but people just like things that can do much more than they actually need it to do. It's just like people driving SUV's in the city.

I'm trying to convert all my equipment to AA batteries, due to there avaibility and reasonable capacity. I only have problems finding a good headlight that i like and runs on AA's... I hate battery packs on the back of my head.

The lithium chemistry has longer shelf-life, higher power density, and better performance in the cold. And they are lighter (which matters for EDC, in headlamps, in torches which float etc).

You can get lithium batteries in an AA form-factor, so I'm guessing you are bothered about CR123s. Whether they will be easily available in shops during a disaster depends partly on where you are. Around here my local supermarket stocks them as camera batteries. My understanding is that then there's a crisis, all the AAs etc are in high demand by everyone, and get sold out quickly, but people are less bothered about cameras and so 123s remain available.

One of the benefits of the long shelf-life is that it's more practical to stock-pile them at home. Then you are not so dependant on shops. If you have a dimmable LED torch, eg an SF L1, and you buy batteries off the internet, $22 will buy you about 20 batteries which should last about 800 hours of continuous on. That's a lot more than 3-5 days.

If you want longer than that, then I have to wonder what kind of disaster you are talking about - maybe this should be in the "long-term survival" section. I would be looking at rechargable batteries and a solar panel or petrol-powered generator or something. And then the chemistry would be Lithium-Ion.

I'm not telling you to use lithium, I'm just saying it's a defensible choice depending on the situation.

Why?
Power density - a CR123 based light will either give you a lot MORE light for the same size, or be smaller.

That said, I think the best light for disaster use are "dual battery" - My old ARC LS came with both a CR123 tailpack, and a 2xAA tailpack - I understand that the EDC ultimate now has a AA tailpack, but as funds are REAL tight right now, I have not looked into this

I know I can get a LOT of hours on my CR123 based ultimate - simply by NOT using the highest setting. I think I've changed the batteries 2x in the year I've had it

The issue is more one of punch v duration. You can have one but not the other (yet). I have been into this in more detail elsewhere. Try doing a search. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As others have said, for me it's the long shelf life and a lot more power in a smaller package. Someone else mentioned better performance in the cold, but I seem to notice they hold their power better in the hot car during the summer too.

My complaint used to be their cost. A pair of CR123's will still cost $9 in your local store and that's outrageous. A box of 12 Surefire lithiums is around $20 over the internet, but even better is the prices Battery Station has:
www.batterystation.com

Battery station has discounts if you are a member of some other forums that will get the price down to $1 per CR123. In runtime tests their batteries are the equal of Duracell, Energizer, and Surefire batteries. I've been using them for a while and have no complaints. Also, Battery Station now ZTS tests every lithium battery before they are shipped. (Battery Station also still has a few of the HDS Basic 42XR's on sale. It's a super deal on a great flashlight. Any buyers remorse will disappear the first time you use it. Equal in durability and warranty with Surefire.)

All of these factors add up to be a no brainer with my EDC light, and a couple of others in my regular use.

candlepowerforums will answer all your questions and more.. As people mentioned already, the benefits I see in Lithium is:

Shelf Life
Weight
Longevity
Cold weather

Exactly in that order.. You can get Lithium Batteries in AA and AAA(energizer, not cheap).. Have them and use them in my EDC, BOB, and stocked at home and car. The Used by date? 2020

I actually use 2 AAA Lithiums in my EDC LED flashlight. Please note that the initial output of Lithiums tend to be higher than 1.5v. Double check with your electronic manufacturer to see if they accept Lithiums.. Another way is just to run the batteries in a high drain device temporarily, and then transfer the batteries over.. (me, I just put them in) <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

In regards to weight, I just weighed them on a kitchen scale.. An Energizer AAA Lithium weights in at 7 grams whereas a Duracell Ultra (Alkaline) AAA weighs in at 11 grams. So 3 Lithiums will weigh less that 2 Alkalines..

I was going to respond with a comment about energy density and how I have over 1000 hours of very useful light in a drawer in my kitchen in the form of 100 CR123As.

Instead, I'm going to ask about the "coincidence" of having a known hot topic posted by a guy offering a special deal to ETS members. Wouldn't be an attempt to get eyes on product, would it?

Well, believe it or not, it is a coincidence.
I see where you are coming from, and appolgize if this was interpreted the wrong way.
The truth is, some of my relatives were buggin me with this question all last week and I couldn't find any satisfactory answer on the net, so naturally I posted it here. <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for all the responses.
I suppose there are instances when coin cell batteries are superior to AAAs etc, for example in such flashlights as Photon, and Inova, but I am still not converted as far as the bigger lights go.
One argument I agree with is that of Brangton. He mentioned that during an emergency there will be a run on the stores to get all the AAAs etc people could find, but 123 may remain untouched. And of course that of specialized applications, when density is more important then the duration.
I realized now that I should have posted this in the long term prep forum. Sorry. <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Given that Redflare has over 90 post's at the time of writing, I don't think that there is an issue with that. He would have been banned by now if there was.
I personnally don't have an issue with a retailer asking question's about kit and prefered items. Or giving discounts. Anything else is between him and Doug.

As someone said, there has been more than one thread about this in the past - and Candlepower forums covers this as well. I have both, but I'm NOT worried about super long term - and my AA/AAA/C/D cell lights are for that - for my EDC, the CR123 lights are generally smaller, lighter, and being LED, give me enough runtime

1) Coin cells are a) to help you find your other lights and b) to make sure you have no excuse not to have some light on you at all times.
2) Lithiums come in AA an AAA formats as well and (with some minor limitations) have the benefits of both worlds (excluding price).
3) There are plenty of multi-level 123A lights which can give you large amounts of runtime -- plenty to last through most emergencies, even with only a modest stock of spare batteries. Look at the HDS U60, SF U2, SF L1, SF L2, SF A2, etc.
4) Regardless of what format battery you choose you should have a stash of batteries to last you through the emergency you are planning. Don't assume you are going to drop by the store and pick up some batteries when there is a hurricane on. They'll be out of stock. :-s

Personally, most of my emergency stores are lithium, 123A *and* AA. Their ability to store for long periods make them ideal for this task IMO. Of course, I have several multi-level lights including a multi level 2x123A headlamp (1W LED).

-john


A sample of multi level 123A lights:
Nuwai TM-301X-3
2x123A multi level headlamp (1W LED)
HDS "EDC" Ultimate 60
SF L1
SF U2
Pierce M10
SF A2
SF L2

Based on my experience with hurricanes, I'd say that D cells are in the highest demand. All those big Maglites and cheap lights clear those out. AA cells clear out pretty quick too. When there isn't a D or AAA cell to be found, there are usually a few C cells and lots of AAA cells still in stock. I've never really looked for 9 volt or lithium cells during a hurricane panic buyout, but my guess is that 9 volts sell out quicker than lithiums.

Personally, I've tried to standardize on AA cells and have several dozen AA alkalines and almost two dozen NiMH rechargables. I've sort of broken that lately with a cheap LED headlamp and an Arc that take AAAs, but they're easy on the batteries. I've got an assortment of other cell types (and flashlights to match them), but I don't depend on any of them.

Yes - my EDC main light is the EDC60U - NICE light - of course, I also have the ARC LS first run, an Arc AA and Arc AAA in my EDC kit - yeah, I EDC 4 lights (and sometimes a 9P with the HOLA too)

Today - just being paranoid, I threw an extra couple of CR123as in the kit - the fit really well in an Advantix film can

Well, I'm always paranoid... HDS EDC U85 w/2x123A tailpack and 6x123a spares in my pocket. :-) And of course primary level adjusted to 60 lm for even longer runtime. I'm not overly concerned about running out of light! :-)

-john

I've tried to standardize my lights. What I wound up with is less standardization than I thought I had:

Surefire G2 (123 cells)
Mini Mag w/Nite Ize LED (AA cells)
Inova X1 (AA cell)
Petzl Tikka Plus (AAA cells)
3D Cell Mag Lite (D cells)
Photon Lights (button cells)

Between regular alkalines, rechargeable NiMH, and lithiums, by far I have lots of AA cells. Fewer AAA cells, even fewer 123 cells, and no spares for D cells or button cells at this time. (Shame on me; I need to change that.)

In a way, having flashlights that are powered differently boosts your odds of having at least something to use in an emergency. On the other hand, the various types of batteries are just one more thing to stock up on and tougher to rotate stock.

That HDS "EDC Ultimate" sure looks pretty sweet... <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

The only CR123 cells I have consist of a 12 pack I bought for my Surefire lights. I honestly don't use the Surefire lights much because they are simply too bright. I stock up on AA and AAA because the bulk of my survival gear runs on them. In that stock I have both lithium and alkaline AA & AAA batteries. All my AA and AAA lights are regulated and can use either Alkaline or Lithium. One light loses its hazardous area cert when used with lithium batteries, but the light will actually run longer. I also have NiMH rechargables and a solar charging unit so keeping lights and radios running is not an issue. The fresh alkaline batteries in my 3-D mag-lite and Streamlight Tasklight will be all the D's I need short-term and since both are now LED, they run a long time.

In an emergency I might buy more batteries if they were available, but those would be for neighbors.

As most people mentioned, lithium powered lights have an advantage over regular AA, C or D in terms of shelf life and performance. If you were going to store a light away for any length of time, I wouldn't trust regular alkalines, especially if the temperature varies widely (like in a car).

For high power lights, lithiums are the only way to go. Alkalines just can't supply the energy needed for high performance in a small package. Recharables are an option, but the shelf life of those are even worse than alkalines.

If you're worried about longer term emergencies, I still think the advantages of lithiums are worth it. Most likely, for longer emergencies over 5 days, you won't need really powerful, bright lights. Simple low powered LED lights should be sufficient in most cases, and most any of the LED lights should have enough battery life to get your through it if you use it sparingly. Plus, if you're in that kind of situation where you're without electricity for that long, I wouldn't rely on which battery is most available, most likely ALL batteries will be gone. So it really doesn't matter what you have, if you dont' have it at the beginning, you won't be able to buy it. I do keep a few AA maglites w/ LED conversions around, but that mostly because I know I can scavange batteries from around the house if I need to. Most all of my other lights that I use are CR123 powered because I buy them in bulk and store it, and it actually a lot cheaper than using lithium AA's.

Actually, I have lights for almost every type and size of battery available, so I'm not too worried about finding the right battery, I will always have something that can be used. But unless you want to start up a huge collection of flashlights (very addicting) then maybe that's not an option for you.

I'm a CPF regular and have lost interest in 123-powered lights. The Fenix L1p is my favorite now, 1AA powered (usually) by an AA NiMH cell. The new Sanyo Eneloop and Amondo/Titanium Enduro cells more or less solve the NiMH shelf life problem except in cold weather. And there's always L91 lithium AA cells (unfortunately Batterystation discontinued their alternative). As for cost per unit energy:

Batterystation CR123A, 3.0 volts, 1400 mAH, $1.00 = $.24/WH
Energizer L91, 1.7 volts 2900 mAH, $1.75 = $.35/WH not that much worse than 123's
Sanyo Eneloop AA, 1.25 volts 2000 mAH, $3.00 = $1.20/WH (but rechargeable)
Sanyo HR-3U 2700 mAH 1.25V $3.00 = $.8/WH (limited shelf life, rechargeable)
Generic NiMH AA, 1.25V 2000 mAH $1.00 = $.40/wh (limited shelf life, rechargeable)
Generic alkaline AA = 1.3 volts (average over runtime) 2500 mAH, $0.25 = $.08/WH (reasonable shelf life, not suitable for high powered lights)

In practice I use NiMH cells in practically everything, with $/WH close to zero since I recharge them. I'm using mostly Sanyo 2500 mAH HR-3U ($2.50 each) but am probably going to slowly migrate to Eneloops for most purposes. I do have a bunch of alkalines and lithium AA's around just in case. And I can charge the NiMH cells from 12 volts in my car, if the regular power goes out. But I usually have some charged NiMH in a camera or something that I can scrounge from.

Finally, don't forget larger cells like D cells, still very useful and cost effective for some purposes.