Good Evening Ladies and Gents; I did a search, but didn't find this question addressed. I work at a trauma center in the Bronx as a nurse. I work in OR scrubs. I would guess that most of us wear a "uniform" at work. I would also guess that these clothes would not be our first choice if we were suddenly thrust into a situation ( you fill in the blank ) in which we are subject to the "rule of threes" and the clothes on our backs must serve as our only shelter as least for the imediate future in the worst case senario. I know I'm preaching to the the true belevers, but if you can only gaurantee access to what you have on your person right now, and most of us don't/ can't go thru life "dressing for success", how do you all do this? What kind of access do you have; home/ car/ under your desk and how do you organize it (eg. some remedial protection in your Edc, more in your BOB, still more in the trunk of the car and some representation in your long term pack? What are your choices; Wool/ waxed canvas or synthetics and why? Thanks in advance! Respectfully; Jim

Well, I'm lucky. The computer geek "uniform" is jeans or BDUs, ankle boots or tevas with wool socks, and we all carry jackets becuase a happy server lives somewhere with the air conditioning around 40 degrees. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Basically, what you do is stash an overnight bag in your car and at least a sweatshirt and real shoes at your desk. Do the superman thing, but skip the phone booth (IF you can find one).

As for what to take, I think all of us are less than thrilled with cotton for cold and wet weather, but after that, you use what works for you. There is no "one right choice". Wool is good, but heavy, bulky and pricey, and a lot people it doesn't agree with. Polypro and similiar "fleeces" aren't as effective as wool is when wet, and have a horrible habit of melting. Silk is pricy, a pain to maintain, some people think it feels icky. Tight fiting nylon doesn't wick as well as silk, likes to melt when too close to the fire, and some people think it feels icky. Leather weights a ton, and is maintence intensive. Goretex is noisy and doesn't work quite as well advertised. And so on and so forth. Pick the one who's downsides you are less worried about and use it for a while. After that, you'll know what works for you.

And THAT is the first lesson of gear selection. You aren't buying for a couple million guys, you are buying for you and maybe your family. Pick the gear you like and can afford.

Or maybe a better way of answering this is to ask a question- what have you already tried and liked, and under what conditions? That, right there, is the best place to start.

I work in a pretty relaxed enviroment, so just as long as I'm wearing something that covers all the important parts and doesn't have foul language all over it, I'm all good. Im a huge fan of thrift stores, so much so that I'm starting to be shocked at the price of new clothes that I probably wouldn't have thought twice about a few years ago.

I really like wool: it doesn't melt, is plenty warm, looks good. I've gotten several Bannana Republic sweaters that are either cashmere or merino wool, or a blend with silk, all for just a few dollars each. Even thought they're "Dry Clean Only" I just wash in the machine on Delicate and air dry.

If it will be cold/windy/rainy then I'll add a nylon windbreaker over the top of the wool mid-layer.

Wool pants are a little bit harder to find sometimes, but I've got a few dress pair that are 100% wool and serve me well. But I usualy wear Dickies, or something similar when I'm working around the house, or doing maintenance at work (my second hat). I find the cotton/poly blend to dry fast enough, even in a light drizzle, and has good wear resistance. I haven't yet tested if the poly content causes this type of material to melt, or burn, so maybe I'll have to sacrifice a pair that doesn't fit too well anymore to the fires of science. Anyway, it is similar matterial to the 50/50 poly/cotton cold weather BDUs.

I recently picked up some 5.11 pants at a thrift store nearby. One pair of lightly used (if at all) 100% cotton canvas cargo pants, and several pairs of 100% polyester uniform pants (Class A that look like nice slacks, and Class B which add cargo pockets), brand new with tags.

The cotton canvas pants have been great in the workshop and around town here in the summer, but I'll probably shelve them when it starts to rain. The polyester pants are good to, but I melted a hole in one knee from sliding across the floor during an intense game of ping-pong. I think I'll just cut off the legs of that pair and turn them into shorts. I think these will be my winter pants, mostly because they repel a little bit of water before it starts to soak in, and even then they dry really quick.

Socks, shoes, and underwear are the only items I consistanly find myself buying at real retail establishments, or online if the price is right.

Socks are extreemly important to me, but it is the same basic principle with everything else. Wool if I can, but if I know I'll be sloging through water on a given day I'll go with nylon dress socks - thin if it's warm, thick if it's hot. Underwear too, althought I don't have any wool currently. Cotton boxers if warm and dry, or if I'll be working where there is any chance of fire. Poly boxer-briefs if it's cold/wet.

All that said, if I was working in scrubs, I'd at least have a wool pull over, a light windbreaker, and a pair of Dickies in a small bag that I could stash at work. Maybe an extra pair of socks and underwear and few personal hygene items and you'd be ready to spend a night or two on someone's couch and not look too bad on the other side.

Greetings Gents: Thankyou for your responses and kind considerations. My reason for posting was primarily to see how other people did this and also to engender thought. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think most people give enough thought to the roll their clothing choices can play in their in their survivabillity. Sometimes our clothing choices are dictated by the place we work or by the society we frequent. For example, don't think it would work to wear the colthes I wear while practicing skills in the south 40 to the Bronx ( or maybe I'd blend right in <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />) The question is what are your choices and why and logisticly, how do you accomplish this. Just looking for better ways to do things and to learn or maybe teach? Thanks; Jim

Good question.

Two scenarios -- one is walking home, which would require warmer, tough, water proof layers and good shoes

two is staying on at work for 3-7 days. That would reguire a change of clothing or washing.

I'd pack a small duffel with spare shoe, socks, and layers for warmth, plus a jacket for the appropiate season.

Teacher

Wear what you have to, and keep a bag in the car, it's the only option. I carry a pair of grey fatigues in my car, with a pair of wool long johns. A tshirt, a wool shirt and a rolled up poncho with liner. Two pairs of socks. I also keep a spare pair of work clothes in there, a pair of sweat shorts, a small light weight blanket and shave-and-shower stuff, in case I have to crash on a friend's floor some reason.

Most "problems" last 24 hours. It's easier bugging a friend than sleeping in the car, and warmer. And if it goes longer, well, that means I can clean (some of them are worse slobs than I am :P ).

sock's, sock's and more sock's. Underwear as well. I can put up with the same shirt if I have to. Same sock's & pants? Noooo.......
I have found that polycotton walking trousers are to be prefered over jeans pretty much anywhere. Loose fitting top layer(s). Wind or waterproof as needed. Oh, yes. One other point - Any friend who left me in the cacky when I can't get home would be off the friendship list real quick.

Beware the full synthetics. They not only melt, but stick to the skin and burn the whole time until they cool.

Lot of guys in Iraq were clamoring for the synthetic, wicking t-shirts, shorts and socks (CoolMax, UnderArmor, etc. ) because of the heat and the tendency of cotton to stay wet with perspiration causing chafing and other skin problems. I guess there were a few instances where soldiers wearing synthetic skivvies had them instantaneously melt in an explosion, causing severe burns over a large area of the body. There's a letter on the subject from a Marine here.

And it isn't just your casual encounter with an IED that's a problem. I recently had to take an NFPA Electrical Safety class for the job where we were told to always wear cotton underneath anything synthetic when working around electrical enclosures. The arc and resulting plasma cloud from a serious fault has the same effect as a bomb.

Also, when I took an MSF motorcycle safety class many years ago, we were told that a nylon jacket is pretty good for abrasion resistance (preventing roadrash), but to make sure it's lined because the heat from friction will eventually melt it and it will stick to the skin.

Synthetics are fantastic for a lot of activities, just wanted to make sure people were aware of the downside.

Good evening gents; My preferences is for Merino wool undies, Merino wool mid layer(s), and either waxed cotton or wool outer with Smartwool socks. Good boots for three season (working on a pair of White's Smoke Jumpers) and white Micky mouse boots or LL Bean boots for winter. Mores Kochansky likes nylon outerlayer,Chris Jankowsky (RIP) likes 60-40 mtn parkas (good luck finding them) and mentions a parka with wolf ruff and hood lined in wolverine with 60-40 outer shell and lined with double layers of Thinsulate IIRC, And they both like dedicated rubber rain suits.As above, a wool watch cap, wool gloves and a wind shirt and other stuff in a small bag that supliments your on body EDC, more clothes in your BOB, a more complete selection of colthes in your car trunk, and a pre packed selection in your long term bag, all variable by season.This is not original to me, I adopted it from an article in the survival section on Outdoors Magazine.com and I don't see any reason to reinvent the wheel. How do you all do this, if you do this? PS getting oversized wool sweaters from the thrift is great; after you launder them in HOT water, they shrink to fit and you have a boiled wool sweater <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I've been looking for a Dachstein sweater forever, I don't think there imported to the states?Thanks; Jim

How are you keeping your feet dry in mickey mouse boots? I tried them for a while and started working on a nice case of what I think was trench foot.

Either that, or they really weren't new (which they were marked as) and I inherited some really interesting foot fungus.

And brother, they aren't kidding about nylon burns. I've got a scar that digs into the side of a finger from fusing paracord when I was young and stupid and didn't think it was really fused until it was bubbling. Nastiest stuff I've ever had land on me- close enough to napalm for my taste.

Iron Raven; I got a used pair. Only wore them once to make shure they fit. As I understand,they insulate by the trapped air, your feet will stay warm, but you will swim in sweat. Considering the environment in them when their in use, hot and sweaty, I wouldn't be surprised if somthing( bacteria/fungi) wouldn't grow in them if they were not properly dried/ deconed after use. Maybe you should nuke them. Like I said, I've no personal experience living in them, (maybe its time) but from what I've been told, for cold wet nothings better. For cold dry mukluks. Thanks: Jim

Personaly I hate micky mouse boots. They are what I had to use when I was younger and cut wood with my Dad who felt the only time to cut wood was in the winter, and NEVER EVER did they keep my feet warm. After many a long day out cutting I thought I would get home to find my toes as black as the boot with frostbite. Thank god that never happened, but I would not take a pair if they were given to me

For consideration:

Kevlar Crew Boss Pants

Dragon Fur Fleece Vest

Dragon Fur Fleece Jacket

Undercovercomfort Kevlar T-Shirt

What are micky mouse boots?

Ah, better than cotton - SILK for undies, WOOL for socks. Lots of folks think wool is warm.. Lightweight wool will keep you nice and cool

GENTS; Ok, if not MM boots, then what do you have/carry/stash for long term cold/ wet conditions? I don't know if you'd want to take your boots off and wade in the conditions I have in mind. Mors Kochanski says any rubber pak boot will do as long as you have room for 3 thick wool socks. I guess he'd know. Jim

Re Micky Mouse AKA Bunny Boots: US Military ( NATO?) cold weather boots. HD rubber construction. Insulates by the principle of trapped warm air between the layers of rubber closest to your foot. Totally water proof and air tite. Most I've seen had air pressure relief valves ( high altitude, HALO/HAHO?) Two versions, black and white with the white version designed to be warmer, Hope this helps Jim

Teacher; "clothing as environmental armor" The senario I envision is a situation that requires you to be shelterless at least initally and requires you to go with your EDC and on person stuff. If your structure was sound and secure and staying there was the best option, shure you'd stay. The thought I was trying to put forth, was that most people don't/ can't wear the clothes that would best serve as their primary shelter in a worst case senario, but that realisticly, they could expect that their clothing choices might have to fulfill that roll. In fact, I dont think its on most peoples radar. Thanks; JIm

Ah that sounds like a BAS (British Antarctic Survey) boot. Something simular is used by the Royal Marine's Arctic Warfare Cadre. They are really designed for us in very cold, dry conditions. For most enviroments you are better off with decent walking boots/shoes. Footwear is one area in which being prepared to pay top dollar for good, walk across Hell boots is good practice. Especially if your life depends on how far you can walk.

Sorrels ( a rubber/leather boot with an insulating insert) are a good choice. That being said, I wear hiking boots most winters down to about 10 degrees.

MrBadger,

Most days I wear Dickies to work also, and i highly recommend them. They look a little dressier than jean, so you can wear them in a more places than jeans. One thing I like about them is that they don't look "tactical", so it doesn't look like I'm trying going on a mission, plus they're not poly/cotton, so they wear like iron. They've lasted much longer and dry quicker than my heavy duty carhartts. As far as burn resistance, I've worn them while welding, and they don't melt holes in them like normal synthetics. Plus I've never had a problem with the coveralls when working on a hot exhaust, so I would assume they're pretty burn resistant.

For emergency clothes, I usually carry a pair of dickies pants and one of their long sleeve work shirts, or sometimes i have a pair of coveralls that I can just throw on top of whatever I'm wearing. Where I live the weather is pretty mild, so I don't have to worry about extreme cold or anything like that.

133tYoDuh; Thanks for the feedback! And sorry for your misfortune.I carry a bag around with me (keep it beneath my desk at work) that contains a reasonable colection of EDC kind of stuff ( Too heavy to be called a BOB), but I was thinking the other day that if I had to vacate the building and for what ever reason didn't have access to the clothing in the trunk of my car, I wouldn't be very protected in my scrubs and the coat that I wore that day. I like most people I guess, dress for the trip from home to the car and from the car to work. Like I said, I carry some more HD type clothes in my trunk so I would have access to them if I'm in or have access to the car.But what if I cant get to the stuff in the car? So I'm thinking I need to make some reasonable additions to my EDC and start thinking of my selections in terms of Environmental Armor,

Not packs, they don't breath. I'm not sure you the gentleman you reference is, but I'm going to respectfully disagree with him.

Leather that is well oiled is in my experince best unless you are heading into marsh land, in which case canvas or solid rubber (depending on how squimish you are about slimy bog water between your toes) is your best bet if you are going to be staying long.

For winter, if you have insulated boots, leather or leather with canvas or goretex panels. They'll keep you dry from without, and breath so you can stay dry from within. Better is a felt liner that can be removed and dried seperatly from the boot to protect the leather, and good socks. Thin cotton or nylon closest to the skin, then one or two layers of wool or woll blend. If your feet are still cold, (a) get out of the puddle, and (b) put on a hat. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Packs generally give you less than squat for ankle support- illusion is there, but there isn't anything there. At that point, you might as well be wearing Converse All Stars or Tevas. Ankle support needs to be real. And you want traction, which I've never been all that impressed with by packs.

But that's my experince.

These things Nasty- they start off ice cold, get really hot while you are moving, and becuase they are basically heavy duty balloons wrapped around your feet, not only do your feet not get dry, but when you stop moving, they get as cold as the inside of a tire.

Oh, and gator, aircrew might use them, but you'd never jump with them. Not ankle support, iffy traction and the landing would probably cause them to blow out. Not to mention there are better choices which are more versatile and allow stealier movement- if you ahve to take a walk a 20 thousand plus, you are generally wanting to be sneaky. Sneaky boots are approximately equal to a couple hundred rounds of ammunition. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> The valve has to do with when you are airborne (in a plane and going from point a to point b) and don't want them to pop, and have nothing to do with being in the Airborne (planning on leaving the plane before it lands so you can kill as few people as possible without dying yourself at a point between a and b). Or, if you are in unpressurized aircraft, so you can take them off again, just like the valves on Pelican cases.

I'll second the Dickies recommendation. Any time I need something dressier than jeans but still able to be worked in, Dickies are the first choice.

Much of the Dickies line is poly/cotton. If they are one of the cotton versions, they may dry quicker than the Carhartts because the Carhartts are a heavier cloth. Every Carhartt pants I've looked at is 100% cotton.

I've had the exact opposite results with jeans. Poly/cotton jeans will last years past a similar pair made of cotton. The cotton pants begin to show their age in the wear areas & seams when the poly/cotton ones are still going strong. They also dry faster.

Raven; Morning Sir! In case your wondering, yes I have a day job, been out sick all week.Maybe thats why some of my posts are less then cogent/succinct (though there are people that will tell you that I'm not cogent or succinct on my best days). Re:. Mors Kochanski (www.karamat.com) wrote Bushcraft. Considered to be the preeminent sub-arborial wilderness living skills instructor. In his winter class, he teaches you how to be warn at 40-50 below(?) in a self made structure with a fire without a sleeping bag. The fiires are 6' long and burn 24-7. You don't do much but gather fule for this beast and after the fule is gone ya got to move. Ok for a night or two or three but I'd realy like to have or make some sort of wood burning stove. Much more efficient in terms of both heat production and fule consumption ( www.fourdog.com) Visit the site and read the book, good stuff. Thanks, Jim

Times Gone By....In the case of the MM Boot's, I went into the 82nd Airborne when the Army still wore cotton all OD Green uniforms, and had C-Ration's. Our usual training Jump altitude was 800 ft. If you don't think that's low, you can stand on the ground and count the troops jumping by watching them go past the tiny green "Jump Light" located inside the door! Getting back to the MM boot's, Being Light Weapon's Infantry, most of us just left the thing's behind, prefering more ammo if we had to carry any type of combat load!

Krell