If I survive a crash with a broken arm and have to walk out with it for 3 days is it wrong to have a couple of vicodin on hand to keep the pain from clouding my brain?<br><br>As I have never broken a bone, nor ever taken any of the vicodin I carry, is this a misconception on my part? It seems to be a small, lightweight item that can save me from LOTS of grief and/or pain.<br><br>Please let me know if I am disillusioned.

I carry some aleve to quell minor pains because mundane things like sprains, strains, headaches, cuts and scrapes cloud judgement. If I need to determine a course of action among many variables, I want to focus.<br>

I've been lurking on this thread... here's my 2 cents:<br><br>If you need anything more potent than a hefty dose of Ibuprofen, you probably have bigger problems than some pain killer will solve. The impairment that comes with even a small amount of codine (let alone more powerful "narcotics") would in itself be dangerous.<br><br>Adversity and need, to a point, lend a higher pain tolerence. Our bodies are pretty darned good at managing these things if we don't let our minds get too much in the way.<br><br>I've never been seriously injured (pure luck). I once walked through awful terrain for 3 days with a green stick fracture of one leg. It really gave me a blinding flash of pain if I did something "wrong" - I adapted pretty quickly... Another time, much more painful. I wrecked a wrist in a fall, eventually losing a carpal bone. It did not prevent me from completing my trek, but I had to learn how to field-dress and quarter an elk with my left hand on-the-fly and it took me about 4 years to fully compensate and heal. Another time I had to decend the last 4-5 km from an extended pack-in trip on my butt, hands, and knees - my knees were toast and I could not walk down slope on them without falling - bad form in that location (aiiiieeee splat!) And so on - point is, if there is need, one can work with non-life-threatening injuries.<br><br>I do NOT have a high pain threshold - ask my dentist.<br><br>Injuries that have nearly incapacitated me: <br><br>1. High Altitude sickeness (AMS; Acute Mountain Sickness - I am prone to that about 1/2 the time for about 12 hours after a rapid elevation gain unless I take a prophylaxis like DiaMox (sp) ). I have functioned through that, but it is awfully debiliating and best left to run its course if you can or evac lower if you cannot (it varies for folks - I am familiar with my malaise)<br><br>2. Cut eyeball - I could have trekked with that if I had to, but only because nothing and everything hurt like the dickens - ouch! Staying or going effected no change and it was (barely) tolerable. When I got to a doc, the pain medication that worked knocked me for a loop. Pain or disfunctional - those were the choices.<br><br>3. Nothing else comes readily to mind... err, I had some fractured neck vertebra once, but I was functional after I got the copper taste out of my mouth. Neck movement went on auto-pilot - as I said, the body manages itself pretty well.<br><br>As I said, I've never been seriously injured so far. Various GI distresses can lay waste to one ASAP (I agree with the Lomotil, BTW), and of course things like malaria attacks from what I've seen. Severe injuries are just that - severe injuries. Except for CNS injuries, most folks seem to be able to drag themselves away from imminent danger and then they need immediate aid from someone else. I've seen the gamut, but not personally experienced any. Pain meds are not the sole answer to things like that.<br><br>IIRC Trusbix's post correctly, I thought he had a very sensible list of meds. However...<br><br>If we're talking the tiny tobacco-tin/candy tin size "PSK", I don't think there is much room for effective enough pain killers that will not critically impair one. I carry a short dose of a couple of OTC meds and that's it - for me, it will get me over the hump in an AMS attack. My personal first aid kit - above and beyond the PSK - has meds in it. For an extended trip, I carry an extended first aid and medication capability that is a compromise between what I can afford to carry, what the risks are, and my knowledge and abilities. I would never attempt to make that up in a PSK-size kit - it's just not going to yield anything really useful in that volume, IMHO.<br><br>Sooo... perhaps we can turn the conversation to, say, three stages of kit: 0, 1, and 2 - with zero being the PSK, 1 being a personal first aid kit, and 2 being (for lack of a better term) a "group leader kit". (Or for Doug - a small aircraft kit <grin>).<br><br>Like I said, just my 2 cents worth...<br><br>Regards to all,<br><br>Tom

I have had two recent injuries which Itreated with my personal FAK - one was a sprained ankle - the result of a leader fall, and the other was a broken (actually crushed)big toe - to be expected when your toe winds up beneath a cargo box while unloading cargo. In neither case did I use any pain killer - I was somewhat surprised at how little the broken toe hurt, as a matter of fact. In the climbing injury, a strong pain killer might well have impaired my ability to get off the climb and down to the ER - a good rigid splint gave me significant relief in that case.<br><br>I have seen a few cases with victims with FXs 24 to 48 hours old with no treatment, not even decent splinting, and in none of those situations was pain a concern.<br><br>Of course, pain does exist in many of these situations, but I would rather leave the strong stuff to a knowledgable medical team which can assume responsibility for care and transportation.<br><br>It would seem to me that a FAK should contain materials that reflect the training and medical knowledge of its owner - that means asprin, tops, for most of us.

I'd say I agree with you about 1000%.

I have had 2 significant injuries. Coincidentally both were on hunting trips. At the end of one hunt, I fell breaking my minor (left) hand and sustaining 5 comminuted fractures in my left foot. The injuries were painful, but not enough to stop me from drivinng several hundred miles home. I didn't even go to the ER for about 12 hours (well after I got home). Overall those fractures were not that painful.<br><br>In the other case, I sustained a Grade III sprain of my left ankle about 1/2 way through an outstanding dove shoot. A hunting buddy helped position my body. An hour later, after getting my limit, he helped me limp back to my vehicle. That injury later proved to be excruciatingly painful.<br><br>Significant pain in the outdoors may be a useful measure of what you can do & how you should best do it. A powerful analgesic could mask the seriousness of the injury & mislead you as to how you should comport yourself thereafter.<br><br>John

I am thinking of the absolute worst case scenarios and/ or I am just stuck in the wilderness for a long time. A strong Analgelsic like Vicodin will help with a enormous amount of pain. <br><br>I ask the question, couldn't I better focus on purifying water if my broken toe didn't hurt.<br><br>I have had serious skin and respitory infections before. A weeks dose of Cipro could possible extend my life for a week should it take that long for rescue.<br><br>I could walk a lot faster despite injuries if my broken arm didn't hurt so much.<br><br>Above and beyond all is the level of comfort I get from the items in my PSK. Sure I could do without food, I could do without water and shelter, and fire, etc. The fact is these medications I carry are considered a bonus to the health, knowledge and experience I already have.<br><br>I give Kudos to all who have survived situations without pain. But wouldn't you have been more comfortable without the pain?

I carry vicadin, ibuprofin, benedryl, multi vitamins and an herb that helps to keep the immune system strong in case of infection, but don't carry any antibiotics. I try to stay away from them so that I don't build up a resistence to their ability to help me heal when I really need them. I do carry good topicals with me to help guard against infections in cuts and scrapes and I carry a small tube of Diporlene AF for any dermatological problems that might occur while in the bush.