I'm having trouble deciding on water quantities and storage for our 72-hour kits. <br><br>I'm looking at the kits as a BOB for a natural disaster - e.g., a tornado levels our house & we have to stay in a shelter for a few nights. I'm not really anticipating hoofing any major distances with it - maybe that's a bad assumption!<br><br>Hubby & I have two kids under 10. <br><br>I wanted the standard 3 gallons/person, but I'm having trouble packing everything in our backpacks, much less 12 gallons of water.<br><br>Any advice? Toss everything else out and pack the water? Get a couple of Camelbaks to help out? Get rid of the extra baggage <<kids :-) >> until they can schlep their own water????<br><br>TIA, looking forward to a good reality check from everyone.<br><br>Mamabear

mamabear,<br><br>Funny that you brought this subject up. I live in the upper midwest (Wisconsin)and just last night I was talking to my brother who lives in California (Stockton area) about this very subject. After hashing out the options we could only come up with the following. <br><br>Have at a minimum 3 days @ 1 gal /person plus some for pets -- in the house this is for staying put but you can travel via car with the containers BUT if you need to leave on foot or bike then have the ability to carry around a days worth by using camelbacks or whatever.<br><br>Thanks for the question 'cause I was going to ask everyone for suggestions. What other options are people using? <br><br>CJ Reddun

Im in the process of making up some BOB bags ,in ours i will have 1 days water and then a clear collapseable vinal type water container that holds aprox 3 gallons , that is deflated in my pack, for when you get to an area that you will be staying at you have the ability to purify larger amounts of water at a time, but have some thing that compresses fairly small , i have 1 of these in my wife and my BOB bags, because there is 4 of us to get water ready for.<br>Yukon

In general, I would store plenty, more than you would contemplate backpacking. If you travel by vehicle, the weight is basically irrelevant and you won't have to scrimp. If you then have to hoof it, at least you have options and you can tank up before you start walking. Your physical and your mental capability declines rapidly when water supplies are inadequate.<br><br>What is inadequate? It will depend a lot on the season and local weather conditions - your needs can vary by a factor three (I have seen conditions where three gallons a day per person would be marginal, although probably enough). Even in the desert water requirements can vary from very high to minimal (winter, spring just after a major storm). You can always toss or leave behind what you don't need. If you are walking, your requirements will be much higher than if you are sedentary or driving.<br><br>Store water in smaller containers - one to two liters are about right. They can be carried easier, either in the hand or tied to the outside of a pack if you are really loading up. A leaking small container is less of a problem than a leaking lare container. I prefer recycled plastic beverage containers to fiddly things like hydration systems and collapsible bladders - they are just too likely to leak - the one exception seems to be Platypus bags, with which I have had no problems. It is very hard to buy a better water container than the one or two quart Gatorade bottles and they come prefilled. Incidentally I have found that dilute Gatorade works very effectively for me. In hot conditions, about half my liquid is dilute GA, and the rest is water.<br><br>If you are dealing with heat and water supply is a concern, you can travel much more efficiently by traveling at night (which may also present problems), or at least at dusk, or better yet, from daybreak until about 9 Am or so. Your water consumption will decline drastically if you avoid the hot daytime hours.<br><br>I guess I have a real thing about water - I got extremely thirsty a few times in twenty-five years in the Arizona outdoors - I am still rehydrating here on the California coast.<br>Water is one of those things you don't appreciate until you have been deprived a time or two - then you realize how easy it is to keep an adequate supply around.<br>

Water in a commmunity evacuation comes down to 2 uses; consumption and basic hygiene. Guess what gets sacrificed? Water is heavy and bulky. There are no shortcuts. Carry what you can, and mirror the kit levels; small foil envelopes in a pocket, a personal canteen and larger containers. I was evacuating horses from a major ( arson set ) fire in Northern L.A. county today. Our truck trailer held personal canteens, my 21/2 gallon G.I. unit, 25 gallons in a saddlerack/ water carrier and 5 gallons in a Brit surplus water can. We encountered a ground crew that had exausted their personal canteens hours before. My brit unit is still up there with them.A good idea is to check with FEMA and other agencies. Find out what resources are available for the hazards of your locale.

You just saved me pecking out a long post, because that's about what I was going to say - thanks. Obviously, I concur... Interesting that you do the same thing with Gatorade/All Sport as I do - 50/50 with water and use the bottles afterwards. They're as good as Nalgene bottle for durability and are cheap. Plus there's this handy groove in just the right place to tie a jug loop onto so you can sling them...<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom

Bob's need to be flexible for multiple sorts of scenarios.<br><br>1) Home destroyed or unusable but town stable:<br>This might be the case after a tornado or earthquake.<br>In this case if you have a tent and supplies cached outside your home (in the 4X4 or the shed or burried) you may want to forgo the joys of shelter life and just camp in the yard. Large containers serve this purpose admirably. If you use anything larger than 5 gallons then you will need a pump to retrieve the water. I wouldn't. Several 5 gallon containers should be adequate storage and easy to rotate etc...<br><br>2) Home unusable, home district threatened or unusable<br>This might be the case due to HazMat spill, Wild fire, civil Unrest, or terrorist activity<br>In this case you will want to have the ability to move quickly which is incompatible with large quantities of water. In this scenario you might be able to count on some water supplies at the destination shelter so would be fine with enough to travel to the shelter and some means of purification once there. Canteens, camelbacks, old pop bottles etc are fine for this scenario. More water that you bring to a public shelter will likely be appropriated for the common good and though that would quite generous, you might serve your family better to use the pack space to bring less sharable more usefull items.<br><br>3) Home unusable, town unstable, infrastructure in disarray<br>This might be the case after large-scale terrorist activity, civil collapse, wide-spread Wild Fire, Hurricane or Earthquake or flood.<br><br>In these cases you might be on your own for a long time and need to protect your supplies and self. Some form or larger storage backed up by carriable containers would be best here. Take what you can carry for a hike or drive if you are lucky enough to be able to drive and go set up safe haven. Return to retrieve what you can since that will likely be easier than finding more.<br><br>In all cases a variety of containers as Chris suggests is prudent and storing all of this outside of the main structure if at all possible so that it will survive whatever event forces the evacuation.

Mini-me,<br><br>Nice post. One comment:<br><br><< More water that you bring to a public shelter will likely be appropriated for the common good >><br><br>I strongly disagree, at least if we are talking in the USA. That would be a FUNDAMENTAL violation of the constitution and is NOT the sort of action that I am aware of happening in at least recent times. There certainly are practical constraints in emergency operations - "I'm sorry, sir, but your 27 cows MUST stay outside...", but siezure of private property is verbotten. <br><br>If you are certain of such an instance happening in a publically managed emergency operation, I would really like to know when, where and the particulars, please.<br><br>Thanks!<br><br>Tom

Tom,<br> I am in the US. I haven't had to exist in a shelter as yet. Your point on the legalities of the situation are likely correct. OTOH, I would suspect that if an emergency shelter environment is anything like a homeless shelter then a stockpile of 5 gallon water containers beside your bed while the rest of the shelter is getting thirsty would be very hard to protect and if you succeeded you would quickly become disliked. My only experience with these things is with homeless shelters. In those environments, if you want something to remain yours you wear it or watch it. Walk out of the room without it and, if it is even slightly useful, it will be someone elses possesion next time you see it.

To all of the people who so kindly offered ideas and suggestions, thank you! You've given me much to think about and, more importantly, a direction to focus on.<br><br>Thanks again.<br><br>Mamabear

Mama,<br><br>One thing that I don't think has been mentioned is where you live, where you would be bugging out to, and the availability of water in both places. I agree with all of the suggestions so far (carry what you can, small containers, etc...), but 72hrs is a long time and has the potential to turn into 96 or 120 or 144.... I think you should make some provision for aqquiring more, which means a filter or treatment process of some sort. If this is something you have already considered and taken care of, good for you.<br><br><br>Take care,<br><br>Andy

Late post, but here's my perspective.<br>I don't carry water in my MOBs. None, not a drop.<br>Since my bags are actually SAR bags, SOP is to carry: no food, no water, no fuel.<br>If I need to go out looking for a lost hunter at 1 AM, I don't want to worry if my water or rations in my pack are good.<br><br>-INSTEAD-<br>leave room for those provisions in your bag and keep perishables- food, water, fuel in a separate bin next to BOB.<br>I usually have a case of 1L water bottles in all my vehicles. Desani or Aquafina. When the fridge is low (we refill 'em from PUR faucet mount filter too), I rotate cases out of the vehicles and restock.<br>If something bad were to happen, I would likely have 36 liters of bottled water in addition to multiple means to purify more.<br><br>BTW, I keep plastic jars of peanut butter in the vehicles. I will usually will have more food items, but I always know I have an unopened jar of Jif.<br><br>One to four liters of water in a BOB is simply not sufficient for extremis. For example, a four hour search will consume 3 or 4 liters from body fluid loss and several more liters will be used in clean-up/ field shower. If something bad were to happen and you were required to evacuate, you will need more water than a backpack will hold. Those one liter bottes are cheap, easy to divy up, durable, and uniquely designed to be poured into a camelback bladder!

Mama, how big are those kids? I know my family is a LITTLE *grins broadly at the understatement of the mellenium* weird, but when I was 6 or 7, I had my first BOB given to me. A liter or two isn't much, but it is better than nothing. <br><br>As for 72 hours worth of water, forget it. Most of my contingency planning has been for areas where purifiable water can be had, so my point of view is biased, I'll state that outright. 48 hours of water (6-8 liters) is all you really can carry IMO, and refill and drop in tabs when you can. I carry in my main pack two, one-liter water bladders, and 2 2-liter plastic canteens and 2, one-liter nageleen bottles. There is also a couple of empty water bladders in case something gets popped, or we can dig in. But I'm also a pretty big husky with a framepack, and I know option isn't for everyone.<br><br>Andy and Chris talked about water in vehilces. Carry at least a gallon at all times, and more if you can. Ditto in the house. I like the big, blue, cubical "aquatainers" (?? not sure, the labels fell of years ago), and clean and refill them regualry. At least 5 gallons per person. <br><br>BTW, for the kids, is it wrong to use large cat carriers for them? J/k, I've never been able to figure out how to evac small humans- I'll be honset, I'm scared of them, but I know mentally that childern and pets will be the hardest part of any such action.

Cyberraven,<br><br>I LOL at your post...my kids are 9 & 7 years old, boy/girl, and the 7 yo is a big help to me with all the preps. She likes organizing the bags and knows how to use all the gear except the matches/lighters.<br><br>I always carry 4 gallons of water in the car, but I think I'm going to use a mixture of filled water bottles, empty bladders, and refillable containers in the adult bags. The kids can carry at least a couple of half-liter bottles and some refillable flat containers.<br><br>You mentioned the Aquatainers -- I love those! I cleaned out our Wal-Mart of all they had a few months ago. They're a bit heavy for me to lift, so I put a towel under them and drag them around if necessary.<br><br>Take care, don't let your state's Dept. of Family Services see you with your kids in the cat carrier. :-]]<br><br>Mamabear<br><br>

ACK! I don't have any kids, hopefully not ever. Like I said, I'm scared of them. Same way I'm scared of the sudden stop at the bottom of 200 foot cliff if I fall off, orstanding in a puddle of gas with a lit match in my hands, or.....<br><br>It was mainly an "for my information" question. I have images of paniced kids running loose, and maybe containerizing them would help to reduce that. *shrugs*

Raven,<br><br>I have kids, ages 11 and 3. You're right, they are dangerous, treacherous, spiteful, sneaky and just plain mean. But...they're mine and I love them, and they come by their traits honestly. Pet carriers don't work; they'll just gnaw their way out, or worse yet, put on this miserable innocent face and make you feel sorry for them. Then they kick you in the shins when they get out and run away laughing....God, I love the little buggers.<br><br>Andy