Does anyone use a "survival pouch" based on what Wiseman's SAS Survival book recommends?

I pack my DR Pocket Survival Pak along with me one in the house, one in the car, and then when on the trail use somewhat of a "Survival Pouch" that can fit in any daypack. I keep it handy in my car with my large car kit. It can be worn on my belt if I am not toting a daypack or has a sling to be attached. I have a good BOB, but this is sort of something that I "throw" into any daypack I carry along with canteens or Nalgene bottles when off the pavement. I am about fed up with hydration bladders. I am not an ultralighter. The pouch is made to be a utility pouch for hunters and has a sling which can be used with it also.

It contains:

*A US Army mess kit which fits nicely.
The mess kit holds many loose items such as coffee and tea, hot chocolate, gatorade powder, energy bars, small film canister sealed with matches, utensils, spare flashlight batteries and many other things and it slides in nicely to the pouch.

*Coughlan's esbit-type stove and pill-shaped Coughlan's fuel tabs. I found a great way to store extra fuel tabs is to use a round tubular toothbrush holder, the kind used for traveling. I just fill it with the tablets and duct tape it in the middle to seal it.
*Swedish fold-a-cup
*Orange 55-gallon drum liner
*3 ft. of orange duct tape
*space blanket
*orange flagging tape
*sponge
*Smith's diamond-coated honing steel
*small FAK (everything covered on that one)
*haemostat
*dental floss wrapped around every kind of needle you could think of
*wire saw with rings
*6 tylenol extra strength
*my emergency meds
*Immodium
*Claritin antihistamine
*candle stub
*15-20 ft. of stainless snare wire
*Very ample fishing kit (overkill in my opinion)
*salt tablets sealed in ziplock
*Water Purification tabs
*Ferro rod
*P-38 can opener
*Silva map compass
*Small flashlight (varies)
*Extra liner-lock knife (varies)
*Plenty of tinder (I am ridiculously tinder-obsessive practising fire-lighting skills all of the time when out, my daypacks have 5 different kinds - pj soaked cotton balls w/ or w/o magnesium shavings, Coleman fire starter sticks in tin, char cloth in ziplock, cedar bark in ziplock)
I pack and repack along everything else that I can cram into ithe pouch including items that cannot fit into my DR Pocket Survival Pak.


My EDC:

*MkII Photon Freedom Micro light
*Original RSK Mk I knife
*Leatherman Micra
*2 days worth of meds
*pill capsule with emergency meds around neck
*Fox 40 Rescue Howler
*Cell phone
*Red bandana

Alot of the time I have a red Columbia Sportswear neck bag that I put the PSK and a larger multitool and some of these EDC things and more into.

Everyone kill me with criticisms and suggestions, but remember I like this supplemental kit to my Pocket Survival Pak and it works for me. I am not asking for opinions on anything else that I would fit into my daypack or any opinions when it comes to BOBs or carkits, etc, that would be wasting our time. Don't go overboard, I JUST want to work on the contents of a small "survival pouch" (not pack or bag) and find out what I need and don't need when already packing my DR Pocket Survival Pak and EDC.

Some thoughts:

I am open to get a larger OR smaller pouch, I'm not stuck on this one.

Can a aluminum foil mini-loaf pan be used instead of the mess kit to save room?

Has anyone tried boiling water in a empty coffee vaccuum packed bag? If so, how?

Oh man... you got pictures? <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The loaf pan will work, although it isnt as durable as the GI mess kit. If you are looking to shave some weight, you could use a sierra cup instead.

It should be possible to boil water in the coffee pouch. You can boil water in a paper cup over really low heat. The water robs heat from the paper cup and keeps it from burning.

Use a canteen cup for the nalgene bottles to cook ect out of.

Lee

I'll work on that one, might take a while.

It looks like you are covered. No reason to switch to a foil loaf pan, the mess tin is much better. Bulkier and heavier, but a lot of the old style steel or heavy aluminum ones dont' squash unless they are run over by a car, and even then, it isn't a given that they are dead. On the other hand, the foil loaf "pans" always seem to spring a leak when I fold then unfold them. Nifty idea, but in my experince, not so good. Maybe I just need better ones, or it could be an elevated Murphy factor on my part.

If I understand you correctly, it sounds like you want to trim this down without loosing functionality. If I'm wrong, insomnia is to blame.

The are few things I can see to be worth loosing, starting with the salt tablets and maybe the hemostats. What do you have in mind as a role for your hemo's?

Don't bother with a full utensil set, you only need a spoon.

Swap the fold-a-cup for a cup around your water bottle.

If you think your fishing kit is overkill, trim it down.

Is your sponge vacume packed? If not, at least put into a small zipper bag and squeeze the air out of the bag and the sponge.

Coffee AND tea AND cocoa? Pick one, and move some stuff into the mess kit with the new open space.

Rather than the gatorade packets, try Emegen'C. Does't linger, tastewise, in the water bottle, and the packages are smaller. And you are getting fewer carbs, so you can use the water more efficent, and a lot of vitamins.

yes, i do. Well not a pounch, but a trangia messtin filled with stuff. But it's pretty much the same idea. It's primarily mend to give some survival equipment in to my daypack, with minium effort (put the kit in the pack).

Nalgene bottles nest neatly in a Snow Peak Ti 700 Mug. Makes for a nice contingency kit.

Good pouch. I suggest replacing the space/blanket for a heatsheet and adding more duct-tape.

Good ideas. I do want to trim this down. I would like a little larger of a pouch, but the equipment trimmed down leaving room to spare.

My argument with the fold-a-cup is that what if I don't for some dumb reason on my part have the water bottle with me? Therefore I packed the fold-a-cup.

My hands tremor alot from meds, so I use the hemostats for different things: Sewing repairs, fishing, crafts, etc. They are a smaller type that has no bend to them (were meant to be sold to nursing school students) easier to use for me than multitool pliers and fit nicely into the FAK.

I have to have coffee in the morning, but during the midday tea does better quenching my thirst. I will trash the hot chocolate, just have it there for the sugar content it provides.

I might use the handle end of a Coleman can opener for a spoon. Its like a P-52 but has a grip on the end in a spoon shape.

The sponge is squeezed down, dried out and thin as can be, then zipped away.

Thanks ironraven, good thinkin on your part

For sugar and chocolatey goodness, try to see if you can find something called "Choclettoes". They are a walnetto without the nuts; think of it as chocolate bullion. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> They are about the size of a starburst, a little thicker.

Supposedely, if you let one melt in 8oz of hot water, you get hot chocolate. I've only ever found walnettoes here, and the idea of cocoa with nuts sitting in the bottom of the mug is too odd for me, so I've never actually tried this recipie. It's from my grandmother. They might be more space efficent than cocoa pouches, becuase you aren't packing air, but they only have about a six month storage life, and you'll want to put them in a tiny ziplock becuase the might melt at very high heat. Putting a mouse trap in the kit as an anti-pilfer device might be an idea to. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As for your pouch, is it a back pack, a shoulder pack, or a belt pouch? And how big?

The pouch is about I'd say, roughly 1 1/2 X the size of a magazine pouch for three 30 round M-16 mags. It has a zipper pocket on the front, a tunnel loop that can be detached by velcro without taking your belt off (I don't think that velcro feature is good), and has a strap for carrying it like a camera bag. Its a utility pouch for hunters and is in mossy oak camo pattern. The mess tin slides in perfect with plenty of room to spare. It is zippered on top and water hasn't ever gotten in it when raining. Bought it at Wally World

It sounds like a variation of a black powder shooters "possibles" bag.

The only thing that looks like you are missing is cordage. Unless my eyes are deceiving me the only thing that comes close is the wire. You should include some 550 cord or similar light rope.

Other than that it looks like a great kit.

porkchop

You're right porkchop, that's exactly what I am adding. I may end up with a bracelet or hat band or something too made out of 550.. A cowhide belt is a MUST for me unless I am toting a strop, which I don't. I am particularly picky when it comes to keeping a smooth, razor sharp edge on my knives.

Ridiculous as this might sound, I've heard this whistle is difficult to work. Hard to blow on to make it, well, whistle. This isn't true, is it?

-- Craig

Yep, that sounds pretty ridiculous. It's the easiest whistle to use I have ever owned.

Good enough.

Wiseman's "survival pouch" is a proto-BOB. The book itself was written in 1986. The content's are primary food, signal and firelighting based. It's a good idea - as far as it goes. I am now going to make a statement that will probley upset a few people. MOST BOB POUCHES ARE TOO SMALL! The Wiseman kit is designed to go on a webbing set. It is not intended for use as a stand alone item. I think that any bag used should be at least 15" X 12" X 4". It should contain food,a Ritter kit, Something to cook/boil water in and a waterbottle of some description. Add whatever other gear you think you need. You should be able to access any of the contents fast without having to unpack everthing else. And have room for extra gear if you need it. I use an Eastpak shoulder bag myself. It's big enough to get everything in - and pass a casual search - and still have enough room for my day to day bit's.

Yes, Leigh, its commonly referred to as a "belt kit" in SAS circles. Now read my comment on my original post again:

"Everyone kill me with criticisms and suggestions, but remember I like this supplemental kit to my Pocket Survival Pak and it works for me. I am not asking for opinions on anything else that I would fit into my daypack or any opinions when it comes to BOBs or carkits, etc, that would be wasting our time. Don't go overboard, I JUST want to work on the contents of a small "survival pouch" (not pack or bag) and find out what I need and don't need when already packing my DR Pocket Survival Pak and EDC."

Hey Leigh,

You're not saying anything that several of us haven't already thought... in my opinion, a minimum BOB would be an ALICE pack with extra, attached mag. pouches and canteen covers... AND a fanny pack... AND the web gear to go with it... but that's just me... I have no Rambo fantasies, I want as much gear as I can carry <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

Troy

It really isn't a BOB. It's more like the intermediate step between your ruck (which you might have to leave behind for some reason) and your pocket kit (which you should have on you at all times, and if captured, do your damnest to keep it from being found). Remember, Wiseman wrote from the perspective of military survival, evasion, resistance and escape. SERE in Bohicastan is a lot different than what most of us will encounter (unless you live west of the San Andreas and it's having a bad day).

What he showed was based on what you'd have on your combat harness along with your ammunition, knife, compass, canteen and first aid kit. Is you are going by SAS SOP, that webbing, your boots and your weapon are your pillow at night, and never more than ten feet from you during the day. Everything else is not part of you escape and evade load. The belt kit was designed to keep you alive until you see friendlies, and then get their attention.

I'm not knocking his book, I'm just saying keep in mind his perspective on things is a lot different from most of us will ever experince. It isn't a BOB, it is a SERE pouch. But not everything in it translate well to a non-military audience.

Unless it's been added in the latest edition, Wiseman never talks about bugging out, nor does he do so in the Urban Survival Guide (not very good, if you dont' have it, don't bother- most of it is stuff that I would think anyone who doesn't have a date with Darwin would know other than the first aid and "what to do in case of becoming a hostage"). Do the Brits not bug out?

Brits don't have anyplace to bug out to. The UK isn't very big.

Brit's don't bug out. We just attack in another direction.......:)
Seriously, though a lot of the bug out kits I have seen on the forum and on other sites seem to be heavily influenced by SERE. They also try to pack too much into too small a space. I prefer to go for the simple. light and reliable approach. After all, I might be attacking in another direction at high speed.

Ironraven,

FWIW: In the 17th edition of the SAS survival handbook (I've got the Dutch
translation) he does mansion urban survival and bugging out.

You Brits need to remember many Americans have this perculier notion we are a combination of John Wayne and Rambo. We can go off into the "wilderness" and live off the land should some thing go wrong.
Please don't attempt to dissuade us by pointing out there ain't much wilderness around where we generally live and, if "it" hits the fan, a lot more people will be heading for the woods at the same time.
Please, don't try to rain on our parade. Lack of training, experiance or location will have little effect on the romance of survival.

"There is nothing so frightening as ignorance in action."

I want to come and watch. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> The "John Wayne/Rambo" image is the bit that "concern's" us Brit's. The I-am-invunerable-because-my-heart-is-pure mindset is not exactly the best one to take into a "it" situation. Wonderful way to get yourself into a world of hurt. Knowing that you are mortal and will get Darwined if you ain't very careful vastly improves your chances of survival.

Leigh,

Not everybody has the John Wayne/Rambo mindset. I think what he is trying to imply partially, maybe, is there is a lot more places and room to hide over here, and there is. We should still be prepared though, you are right. You Brits have to worry more about an urban environment alot more from what I gather. There are resources here untrained people wouldn't think of using that are just a hop, skip, and a jump away across the back yard.

Let's see, an example of observations in the last 24 hours truthfully, where I reside:

*I can take a shortcut and urinate out the backdoor instead during commercial breaks on tv and never be seen.
*The environment goes undisturbed
* Barred owls hoot over my roof
*Whitetail deer are in the FRONT yard.
*My lawn mower (and dog) uncover litters of rabbits in the yard.
*Raccoons and 'possums try to steal dog and cat food.
*Green tree frogs are stuck to the kitchen window dining on the moths that the flourescent light over the sink attracts.
*Red-shouldered hawks attack the chickens.
*Beavers dam the creeks below the house.
*You can hear coyotes howling at night.

So I think you have to worry more about whats in your BOB than I do. It's a good thing to know, urban e&e, and I learn, but me worry about it?

I know the forum members don't. Its the City Slickers that worry me. Present most of them with a pile of wood and a match and watch them spend the next half hour trying to find the On switch.... Yes I'm being nasty, but to make a point. Which is that 99% of the people displaced by "it" don't know about the resources around them. Or have the "When in doubt, Improvise." mentality of the forum members. Question is: Do we help them, or leave them to their fate?

What do they have to bring to the table??? <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Troy

I've got possums, pheasants and cute bunnies (not to mention not so cute wild dog packs) in the middle of Detroit. Nature is quick to reclaim abandoned factory sites and burned out residential blocks. My Dog killed two possums last winter.

OK, so it is in a newer version than my copies. :P

My bug out is similiar, but rather than something like what Simon describes being my start, it is my destination. If everythign goes according to plan (wish me luck on job interview), two hours by car to get to my folks, no big deal. Average speed, 50mph+. Take the alternative routes, it increases to 3, even four hours with some of them.

Assuming my car doesn't have a problem. If it has wheels, I don't trust it all that much.

Hundred, hundred twenty miles, I can do that in four or five days on foot. And not a lick of that is going to be cross country. I'd rather not be mistaken for a fool flatlander at that point. On the major route, I'd probably only have to spend one of those nights outside, if everyone is home, but if they aren't or there are complications, I need the gear. And I need it light, and compact, becuase odds are anything going wrong will be in winter and I'll need extra gear.

Sure, I'm planning for a near worst case senario, but it is the one that I need to keep in mind.

And Simon hit on the head of the difference between US and Canada requirements, and the requirements of Europe- there are a lot less of us per square whatever. Sure, most of our population lives in the urban areas, but a lot of those of us on ETS (who I unfortunately can not consider an accurate cross section of our individual nations' people) who are in the US are rural. I have to drive 10 miles to get a gallon of milk or gas when I'm at my folks. Not as far as some, but a lot more than most.

I know what you mean, Wolf. I lived in the city recently and had to get out of it. I chased possums out of garages twice with a broom stick, and skunks with their young would walk in the back yard. Even wild turkeys are in the city limit.

Got out of the city recently, Just work in it now. Still yuck. Close enough to use it, far away enough to be back in the boonies. Its not a big city so I don't worry about urban e&e. It doesn't take long to just drive away from it using various routes or walk right out of it using routes thru the woods no city slicker would use. So my car kit and survival pouch and PSK work nicely.

There are so many forests surrounding this city, its funny how you talk to people and they don't have a clue. They would stick driving out the main routes, while if I had to bug out of work, I could walk out of the city quicker through the woods if a disaster occurred.

I think I am logged into the site because it is letting me reply but I cannot post a new post???

I'll check your account and see what's going on.

Thanks!
I'm posting like normal here in the hospital, so maybe it was only an issue on my home PC...too bad I work every other week, that means I cant post but every other week too <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I like the idea of the 'pouch' to supplement the psk. I think I'm going to get one of these:
http://www.backcountrygear.com/catalog/accessdetail.cfm/SN2400
Then find a pouch for the tall pot to fit in then fill in the pot with the supplementals. The pot is also available in titanium for a bit of weight savings.