Hi Kuovonne,

From one small woman to another, I applaud your sense of self. You know how to safely handle and correctly shoot a gun, so no one should fault you for making a conscious decision to stop there. I think it's great to be comfortable with yourself and your abilities.

My DH knows how to shoot, but he doesn't want to own anything other than his rifle, which we don't even keep in our home. I'm still learning the basics (very slowly), so I haven't the right to seriously consider gun ownership yet. When this changes, we might come up with our own plan of action for home defense in regards to the gun(s). There is a chance that we may never carry, and I can accept that.

The decision not to carry a gun is at least somewhat helpful for you to come up with other (perhaps better) ways of defending yourself to the maximum of your other abilities.

First, I would say that I'm glad to see you are thinking about it. Certainly step one. If you don't feel comfortable and your husband can't convince you to change your mind, then you are talking about a VERY specific situation in which he has been incapacitated while leaving a loaded gun behind. Chances are pretty slim, but so be it.

Second, I think you should address your estimation of yourself. My wife can sometimes come across with the same idea that she wouldn't be up to the challenge. I've found that having a child changes my mindset and I've seen it change hers. People can and should defend themselves with everything they are willing to use. Adding a child to defend into the mix makes this even more true.

Third, for you I would be less worried about an unarmed gun left behind and more focused on how you can improve your chances without it. I recommend taking a Women's Self-Defense course at your local gym/Y/shelter/sherriff's, taking martial arts (our class often gives Women's Self-D seminars) and generally rethinking your ability to disable someone who's bigger. I've seen a 90 pound 15 year old stop a 30 year old who was more than double his weight and probably 5 times his muscle mass. Do NOT count yourself out.

Sounds like you have the main stuff covered - alarm, secured house, etc., Dogs are good and Neighborhood watches are also not a bad idea. The only thing I'd really like to see you do is change your attitude... it seems like a "victim's" attitude. I should mention that criminals often pick up on that vibe since it spills over into actions and how you carry yourself.

Oh, and a whistle directly into an assailant's ear can incapacitate and startle enough to get away. It's just one of many non-lethal options open to you. So maybe research what you are comfortable using (especially in an enclosed space).

Your post is quite fascinating. I've run across your attitude in several other women, even friends. And I'm not wanting to sound nasty about this (really!), but... I get the impression that deep down, you are of the opinion that anyone's life is more valuable than your own. I just don't understand why some people, knowing how much true evil there is in the world, think that even the life of a whacked-out meth maggot is more precious than your own.

So your plan is to "Empty the clip / chamber as fast as possible... my goal would be to render the gun unusable by the enemy. I would be easily overpowered and the gun taken from me. When that happens, I don't want the gun to be loaded."

Why don't you want the gun to be loaded? Because they might kill you with it? But you've already made the decision to die, haven't you? You aren't making the incredibly dumb/silly assumption that if you don't cause trouble, he won't hurt you, are you? That old "turn the other cheek" crap of the ultimate victim? Will you beg for mercy from a psychotic right before he blows your head off? What makes you think that the guy isn't there to kill you from the get-go? Murder is NOTHING these days to many people-- it's like drinking a glass of water.

And would you think the same way if your SO was down, you were still up, and had a gun in your hand? Suppose you were babysitting for your sister or best friend --- would you be willing to "donate" the kids' lives, too?

Where do you draw the line?

I've always wondered (perhaps wrongly) that women who think that way might have been taught some behaviors that they just can't seem to break away from:

Dependence on someone else (daddy, brother, boyfriend, husband, total stranger resembling John Wayne) who will always be there to defend them from bad people and situations; or

That awful "be ladylike" mode that I was raised in back in the 50's (thankfully, it didn't take very well <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />), where you were supposed to take whatever anyone dished out. IOW, the education of the ultimate victim.

Is it your highest purpose in life to be a statistic? <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Sue

I'm with Susan. 100%

You're pretty much saying you'd rather have your husband and yourself killed/raped/tortured than defend yourself.

To each their own, but I will bet you're also the type that will blame society/police/goverment for the attack afterwards.

Susan, you kick ass.

I agree with Sue as well, but I don't think it needs to get personal. Just because a person has an issue defending themselves, it's not right to pass judgement and then assume facts not in evidence to make a point.

Let's just look at this rationally and try to help her out instead of lambasting her. I think there's plenty of argument on here for why she should think twice about her stance and several have made suggestions on what else can be done. I'd say I'd rather have her in the fold and learning and changing her mind slowly than to just say her viewpoint is invalid and make her feel like dirt.

This reminds me of a time when there was a nice woman in my karate class who had been abused. She was reluctant to "spar" with anyone, but I finally convinced her to try it out with me and we built up rapport. After some very encouraging signs that she was "getting it" and was starting to come out of her shell, another guy in class got a little to carried away and didn't think about her situation. She never came back. I hate to see that happen because it tends to perpetuate the situation. I'd hate to see that happen here.

Wow, what to say?

I am very suprised to find that people think that
I am a victim or act like one. I am not a victim,
and have never been one. I have never had to defend
myself with more than words, (except maybe the time I
raised my fists to a bully in elementry school).
And I've done more than my share of walking alone
through bad neighborhoods in the middle of the night.

I don't value the life of a criminal more than mine,
as several people have suggested.
However, I do doubt my ability to use a gun to completely
disable a criminal, especially one that is high or has friends.
And I don't like guns enough to invest the time and money
it would take to remove that doubt. (Other postings on
this thread have made this glaringly clear to me.)
So, my choice is to render the gun unusable by the enemy
and move on.

What is wrong with prefering to avoid or run away from
a bad situation? What's wrong with knowing that I would
be easily overpowered, because I've made a conscious decision
that, given the odds, I'd rather spend my money and time
on things other than gun training and martial arts?
(If you think I've got the odds wrong or the money & time involved wrong, please tell me why.)

-Kuovonne

p.s.
My purpose in posting on these boards is to let
y'all know the thoughts of someone who is slowly being
converted to preparedness, even though I think some
of what y'all talk about is overkill.
Thanks to this group, I now carry (and know how to use)
many preparedness type items that I did not before.

Of course, if I'm publicly told that I'm stupid enough times,
I'll go back to lurking.

Hi Kuovonne,

You've clearly thought through the situation. As I said, it's pretty unlikely to happen, but it *could*. That's what the site is all about... situations that could happen and how to prepare for them.

Anyway, I personally have no problem with those who don't like or want guns. One of my best friends is adamantly opposed to even the 2nd Amendment. He doesn't think any non mil or LEO should have them for ANY reason. I am quite the opposite, but I respect his viewpoint. I think that some folks get carried away simply because they so emphatically believe something that they can't see the other side of the coin or that it might have some basis in valid argument. I certainly hope you don't take a few "out of the ballpark" comments and decide to go back to lurking. You are obviously not stupid and have done more than many on the subject; which is to educate yourself and think about the situation and the consequences as they fit YOU. Thinking and learning, is more than the general populace can say about themselves. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Learning to handle and effectively utilize firearms is a large undertaking. I, am in fact, a little out of practice at the moment. Same goes for Martial Arts. Both cost money and take time. At least for Martial Arts, money and time are both big factors in people not sticking with it. I completely understand the situation as my own workload has kept me out of class quite a bit for the first half of this year.

I would say that even a couple of hours at a women's self-defense seminar would be VERY helpful. You can practice things lightly and slowly with your hubby until the next class is held, like 6 mo. later. They are typically free or very low cost. I know that many are "donation" driven and will allow someone in for free if requested. Several of the women in my class have come over full time to karate from yoga and aerobics since the workout is as good and costs about the same, and they get permanent benefits... maybe there are kickboxing or similar hybrid MA classes you would enjoy.

I'm glad that you clarified that you questioning your ability to defend yourself WITH A GUN. That changes things. Hopefully you don't feel that way about yourself in general, but even that can be helped with time and encouragement.

I would just leave you with a parting thought... Avoidance is important, but sometimes it is not possible to run away. Certainly in the home it poses problems. And with kids, I'm sure you wouldn't be willing to leave them behind. Don't ever count yourself out. Keep moving and fighting until you are dead... you just might win. Go for the throat and eyes and groin in a life or death situation. Learning to kick hard to the side of the knee might disable your attacker enough to get your kids and get out too... Even the weakest kids in our classes could probably snap my knee if they hit it right. Legs are mighty powerful. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Unfortunately my family has become acutely aware of the fact that one can carry a gun, know how to use it confidently, nail an armed criminal with it, and yet still be killed by that armed criminal. I've always wanted to train enough to be confident and comfortable with guns, despite this painful association, but I realize they are not the be-all, end-all of home/personal defense. Sometimes you can do all you can and still lose. I would hope that no one else here has come to realize that in the same way I have.

Hey Kuovonne,
first, let me say, that from your past posts, I'd say you're FAR from stupid... for those that gave that impression, shame on them. Second, if you're absolutely convinced that firearms aren't for you, then so be it... some folks just won't ever be shootists. But, I'd like to point out, that learning to be a competant gunner doesn't require expensive or years-long training. It sounds like you've got a pretty competant instructor living with you, and if the teacher-pupil relationship just doesn't fit husband-wife (I can't seem to teach my wife ANYthing), the NRA offers training free of charge (and not that it matters, but some of their best instructors are female). Your first gun doesn't have to be expensive, my wife's first gun was a H&R .38 that we got because she liked the way it felt in her hand. While she doesn't often go to the range with me, I've seen enough of her shooting to be confident in her ability to put two rounds in the center of mass, and when that little .38 is loaded with Hydra-shoks, I would NOT want to be the person she's shooting at <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. As far as the matter of whether the bad-guy has friends or not, in most instances... one, or twelve, when there's hot lead flying in their direction, 99 times out of 100, they'll head for an easier (and safer) target... but, as I've already said, if guns just aren't for you, then so be it, but don't let that stop you from continuing to contribute to our little circle here... I for one, enjoy getting perspectives of folks that don't always agree with me... I said it before here, I've never learned a thing from somebody that agreed with every word I said <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

Troy