The old "when in danger" quote is such a bad idea. I've long suspected that it was rather tounge in cheek from someone who didn't much like the clueless.

Running circles wastes energy. Running in rough terrain is a bad idea period unless speed is critical and only if you know the terrain- remember, fast is slow, smooth is quick. Instead, if you are misplaced, sit down and think.

Screaming and shouting might have a small statistical probability of attracting attention after the first few shouts of "Hey, guys!", but after that, it will reenforce the panic. Instead, listen to see if you can hear anything and THEN sound off. Or better yet, blow a whistle or at least bang some rocks together or thump a hollow log with your walking stick.

All panic and waste of energy do is make your mental and physical condition worse and suck up time that would have been better spent doing something constructive. If you want to teach kids how to be a sacrfice to Darwin, feel free. I'd rather teach them something useful. I think I'd start with "STOP". Or maybe "Don't Panic".

Or show them a picture Otzi, and point out that if they don't listen up and get thier brains in the game, in a few hundred years, if they are lucky, they might look that good. Then run down the list what he had, and what they have that is equivelent. Other than body armour, he had everything he needed on his last day.

I would counter that with people with cell phones are more likely to be careless. They do amazing things. They decide that is it too hot to carry all that extra water. They choose to take extra rolls of film, rather than thier blood sugar kit. They take the ski trail that is a little out of thier league. They climb down the cliff to check out the spiffy rock, even though they've never been on a rope in thier life and don't have one. They don't turn back when the weather suddenly does something that was unexpected. They try to hug the pretty moose while thier husband takes the picture. They go kayaking in the rain, after two weeks of rain. They don't take spare clothes, extra gas or spare parts for thier snowmobile for a night run when it is expected that it will drop to -40.

All these are true stories, taken from newspapers in Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine over the past few years.

They got dumb. These people are not of the utterly clueless. Many of them are experinced outdoors people. Some of them have taken the survival courses that various agencies and schools offer. Many of them are well educated. None of these stories were about people who were mentally handicapped or intoxicated. Only the moose hugger was displaying an utter lack of understanding.

All of them had a cell phone, though. They had it for "emergencies"; in most of these cases, the folks were quoted as saying they thought they were safe, they had thier phone. People are too used to thinking that the cell phone is a safety line. It isn't. It is a collection of parts made in the third world controlled by firmware written by the lowest bidder that needs batteries that historically have really spotty quality control and functions by line of sight over relatively short range. In a smaller sentance, it's a gizmo of questionable pedigree. Any "safety" it provides is an illusion.

Take a look at Ors' post about the miniskirt. She had a cell phone. She'd always been able to call for help. She'd never had to do anything for herself. She'd never had to think, or learn from her actions. So she endangered herself, a few hundred strangers, and our friend. But she could dial a cell phone, so in her mind, she was safe.

If you think you have a safety net, you are more likely to take risks. That is a documented function of human psychology- people take more risks if they think they will be safe, it's like the magic feather. You gamble all you can, that's the way humans are. With this roll, it isn't just your own life you are throwing the dice on. In most of those situations, bystanders or emergency people were endangered by this cell phone induced stupidity. In some of those stories, they were hurt; in one, someone other than the silly person died.

If I shoot myself in the foot becuase I decock a single action and my thumb slips, that's one thing. If I shoot someone else becuase I didn't know it was loaded and wasn't practicing muzzle control, that's another. I see no difference between that, and being stupid becuase you have a cell phone. It is sloppiness of thought, carelessness. And an utter lack of respect for yourself, for your fellow man, and for Nature.

And I'm just at a loss how you can get yourself out of trouble with a cellphone without relying on others.

QUOTE: "one more thing that really works great...reward them for something they observe (finding an animal track, identifying an edible plant, pointing out poison ivy, etc) by tossing them a ziploc of homemade GORP. It's amazing how much attention to their surroundings they pay! Have a great time! "

This is a great approach that I use with my kids or my cub den on outings. I create a "bounty" for spotting various animals. 25 cents for the first kid to spot (and adult verify) a squirrel. 50 cents for a red tailed hawk. $1 for a deer etc. The bounty goes up by how rare the animal is in the area. Maybe $5 for a bald eagle. $10 for a mountain lion. $100 for an alaskan kodiak bear (they don't live here, but if one is spotted it would surely be worth the bounty). I've yet to have to pay out anything over the $1 amount, but I am always ready to pay up and the boys are much more aware of thier surroundings.

Good luck, TR

Well, in Holland almost every kid has a cell-phone and you'll get a signal almost everywhere. Of course I don't know about the situation in the US.



My opinion is that a cell phone could be a useful signalling device, but of course it could fail. There are a lot of reasons why it could fail, but there are examples all over the world of people being rescued by calling with their cell-phone. And since we usually all carry it: Why not?

I wouldn't rely on a cell phone as ''the core equipment for emergencies'', that should be your PSK and EDC, but it can be, and is (with me) a part of the equipment for emergencies.

Been there, done that, not very nice experience <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I've carried my cell while hunting for the last 3-4 years, meaning I've survived without one for 30+. I leave it switched off for obvious reasons. I'd say that a good 90% of the time I have no signal. But it would never occur to me to leave it home. Like any other tool there are situations where it will be useless, but if I need it I'd rather have that extra 10% than not. Certaintly on a scout trip the leader(s) at least should carry one. I think it would be borderline negligence not to.

Cell phones also serve as a good way for leaders to keep in touch with each other while driving to the destination and if something splits up the group (such as patrols have different activities or a Scout needs medical attention). For short distances we use FRS radios, but for longer distances we use cell phones ... where the signals are available.

We ask the Scouts to leave cell phones and most other electronic devices (except maybe GPS's if they have them) at home.

Familiarity breeds contempt. While a cell phone may be a supplement to your survival kit (as it is mine), by bringing it into the discussion as standard emergency equipment, use of the cell phone will inevitably morph into being primary emergency equipment and other gear will be left behind. People will start carrying two cell-phones so they have a back-up. The goal is to teach self-reliance and responsibility -- not how to exceed your limitations and still survive by the grace of Verizon.

'raven, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your asessment of stupid people. However I find it interesting that you choose a gun analogy toward the end. It made me think of the old standby: "guns don't kill people... people kill people". I think that can be used as a metaphor for cellular technology. The cell phone is a tool, and maybe one of dubious quality (although not ALL cell phones are created equally; of that I'm certain) but it all comes down to the user, their training, and their attitude.

I wasn't saying it should be their only equipment. I'm saying it should be stowed in a pack, charged full, but turned off. They should be trained on it's use and the fact that it will most likely NOT work. They should already have training in survival, shelter, water, etc. And I don't know about you, but my cell is just about the smallest piece of equipment with me most of the time (except for what's in my pockets). In a pack with tent/bag/water/food/clothes, I doubt anyone would notice it.

I think it comes down to the people. In all of the cases you mentioned, they sounded like 2 bit ass-clowns desperate for a clue (or a visit from Darwin and that Mighty Chainsaw of Natural Selection you mentioned <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ). I heartily agree with you that technology tends to help people become complacent and stupid. I see - or rather, hear - people wearing their MP3 players at full blast, yammering on the phone while driving at 75 eating a cheeseburger, and plenty of other annoying activity.

But I don't associate either the phone or the MP3 player with the behavior, I associate that bit of stupidity with the people in question. I'm saying that this might be an opportunity to teach the scouts something that could benefit them forever; that technology can't always save our hide, and even if it can, it's bound to cause someone else a lot of grief because of our stupidity.

A cell phone is a tool. It's far too often used, to paraphrase your comments, as a crutch. I'd rather teach my son that it's not the end-all of survival equipment. Maybe not even "survival" equipment to begin with. But it's one tool in an arsenal of items that can be used to save one's life. I'll continue to be amazed and chagrinned at those who go for a hike with just their cell phone and new boots, but tell me this... given all your disdain for the cell phone, would you do the right thing if you carried one? Of course! You know why? Because you've made it clear that you understand that it's a potentially lethal convenience, just one that happens to be able to save your bacon once in a while. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I think you've hit the nail on the head that we should be able to survivie without a cell phone.

What I'm afraid of is the group of kids that decide to go out in the backwoods because one of them has a new phone... so without understanding what they are getting into, they assume that will be all they need. Group think among that age is pretty common. If we don't explain this to them at some point, who will? I see the age and the fact that they are Scouts as being the perfect time to get them thinking intelligently about this.

People are stupid. Cell phones aren't.

Bingo! That's 98% of what I've been trying to say.

That, I'm still not conviced that cell phones don't cause brain damage. Maybe not long term, but while they are on, as I said, people get dumb.