You die in:<br><br>3 min without air<br>3 hours without shelter <br>3 days without water<br>3 weeks without food<br><br>Could you survive for 4 weeks on your PSK? If theses are the priorities what should the PSK contain and remember you could be in a jungle, mountain, desert, artic or sea environment and the PSK would see you through. The kit would have to be as small as possible so you would carry it at all times. I think you would have to have some different items for the different environments.<br>If SAR does not find you in one maybe two weeks the chances of them continuing to look for you would be pretty small. You will have to make do with what you have and find your own way out. Would the PSK hold up by itself or would you have to add items like a knife, canteen etc. Remember the kit would have to be a small grab and go kit otherwise you would not carry it at all times.<br><br><br>Is this a fair test for the PSK?<br>

MCSE,<br><br>In a word...no. Or, at least, probably not.<br><br>The PSK is designed to keep you alive for a minimal amount of time. Hopefully long enough for you to be found and rescued. The PSK is not designed for an extended period such as you describe. <br><br>Keep in mind that this assumes an Altiod sized kit. A larger kit would help, but is still no guarantee. Also, given favorable weather conditions, and adequate water supply, your chances increase immensely. Life is uncertain, even in the best of conditions. YMMV.<br><br>All for now. Take care.<br><br>Andy<br>

Four weeks is probably a severe test for any reaonably small PSK. However, circumstances could vary the experience tremendously. For example, I could easily make it for a month in the Channel Islands, just living on tide pool critters. Since I would be active in aiding searchers - signal mirror and marker panels by day and a pillar of fire by night, unless the searchers are looking in a completely erroneous area, the search ain't gonna last more than a few days. <br><br>There is a record of a lady surviving on Anacapa Island for fourteen days following the sinking of her vessel (her two male companions perished in the sinking) in 1946. She stayed in a fisherman's shack on the island - probably didn't have either a PSK or an Altiods tin.<br><br>Historical records indicate that willpower and simople will to survive are really important. There are many of records of survivors who shouldn't have made it according to accepted guidelines. It is the person who survives or dies, not the PSK.

Oh Gee, My Purification tablets are running out, and my matches are all gone. By the light of my Photon 2 (in the wrong color for night vision ) I see 72 hours have come and gone and something is MOVING in those funny looking bushes. I guess I better give up and die now. The PSK is to provide what cannot be EASILY improvised and fabricate what CAN. Yes, you better have a knife and more important the mindset and training to think " outside the box" especially the one that says Altoid.

I think perhaps just a bit of forum jargon is intruding here...<br><br>Most of the time I think that we are talking about a small package of items when we say "PSK" - a candy tin, a tobacco tin - something that fits readily in a pocket.<br><br>"EDC", or every day carry, includes other things we carry - perhaps a PSK is part of ones EDC.<br><br>If I am deliberately out-of-doors, I will have those things and more with me. Four weeks unplanned could be very difficult or a lark, depending on many things. But if I were transported from my present work environment to a "use what you have on you" 4 week sojourn, it would be a very difficult situation.<br><br>Is your 4 week figure arbitrary or is there some situation that you conceive of that would merit a 4 week stint?<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom

I will not have the PSK without a pocket to carry it in. That pocket will most likely be on an outfit like the one I usually wear - Wool pants, nylon shirt, Wool Vest, and If the weather permits a jacket. All of the other pockets and the belt of that outfit will be carrying other neadful things. Such as: 6'X8' ripstop waterproofed nylon tarp, Nylon Poncho, Mosquito Netting, Altoids sized FAK, leatherman Wave, Leatherman Micra, SwissTool, Whistle, SwissKey, Large garden sized trash bag, MagLight FlashLight, CellPhone, Ham Radio (TriBand 2 and 6 meter and 70 cm), 2 Bandanas, 1 Hankie, Fountain Pen, Ballpoint Pen, Mechanical Pencil, Standard #2 pencil, Notepad, HandHeld computer, Baggie of GORP, Spare Batteries for all carried appliances, Roll of TP, Package of facial tissues, 200' or nylon cord (similar to the sheath of paracord without the inner strands maybe 150 - 200 lbs breaking strength) - thats without the jacket. If the weather permits or requires the jacket it will also contain a watch cap and gloves. Without the jacket I atleast have my tin cloth cruiser hat. <br><br>If I am allowed to be dressed as well as carrying the PSK then I think that my odds of surviving the 4 weeks go up dramatically. With Just the PSK, some luck and decent weather in the first week things might work out. Let's rundown how in a forest. ( my skills don't include jungle, artic or desert environments.)<br><br>Presumed: <br><br>1) I am not injured,<br>2) I am in temperate forest environ<br>3) It is somewhere between May and October - late spring to early fall<br><br>PSK contains wire saw which alone is sufficient to improvise a debris hut.<br>PSK contains snare wire.<br>PSK contains Tin Foil for improvised pot.<br>PSK contains paracord for holding things together and strapping things on<br>PSK contains a 13 gallon trashbag for carrying or waterproofing as need be.<br>PSK contains compass for orienteering around camp and towards home.<br>PSK contains fire starting materials (sparklite and tinder)<br>PSK contains tape (duct and electrical) <br>PSK contains twine <br>PSK contains sewing kit.<br>PSK contains super glue<br>PSK contains iodine tablets<br>PSK contains whistle<br>PSK contains balloon for water storage<br>this is my kit<br><br>First Day) Use wire saw as needed to construct debris hut weave the structure together w/o paracord (conserve that). Start Fire for warmth and signal. Locate water supply. Pass first night in this as well as I can. If it is not raining then don't use the trash bag from the PSK. <br><br>Second day) Set out snares, (I carry enough for two squirrel / rabbit sized snares). Layer dirt and debris onto debris hut - properly constructed this will be waterproof and insulated. Obtain water and improvise water purification through boiling in Aluminum foil. Do not let the fire die unless I must move. Start to improvise fire-carrier from charred log - this is a valid use of paracord to hang the fire carrier on a stick for walking. Watch for SAR and maintain signals - fire, smoke and if there is a sign of someone, mirror and whistle.<br><br>Third Day) If the snares produce then eat 1/2 and make jerky. Stake out the skins for later use skins might be staked out over the debris hut to add to waterproofing. If the snares don't produce then search for fishing opportunities. Start looking for advanced improvisation opportunities such as Clay for making containers for cooking and water, Vines or fibrous plants for making cordage, Birch Bark or other better waterproofing for shelter. Watch for SAR and maintain signals - fire, smoke and if there is a sign of someone, mirror and whistle.<br><br>Fourth Day through fourth week) Repeat third day improving the camp a little and start working on improvising a larger shelter that can be heated. This can be a found cave or a wigwam or other large structure that would safely contain a fire and a standing individual.<br><br>Failure points:<br>1) inadequate shelter on first night<br>2) inadequate water supply by end of second day<br>3) inadequate food by end of first week<br>4) no improvised boiling container by end of first week (when iodine runs out and foil burns through.<br>5) Extreme cold temperatures ( see failure point 1)<br>6) Extreme hot temperatures (see failure points 1 and 2)<br><br><br>I would expect that the low point would be around 72 hours. Around that time frame I should have finished establishing a camp with shelter, water, and food. From that point onwards everyday I improvise an improvement on that starting point. If the camp is good enough and the weather holds I might stay and wait. If my clothing is sufficient shelter or the camp site is bad enough (above treeline, no water, no game) I might stay put long enough to establish a fire carry and then move out. I wouldn't move at night and I wouldn't let the fire die after starting it. A decent fire carry can be improvised by burning / carving a hole into the end of a log and lining it with mostly dry moss, add to this a large chunk of ember from the last fire you built and stop frequently to maintain it. You should be able to carry the fire through the day and have a start for the evening if you need to be on the move.

Well Put!

It would be tough but I think the kit would do it as is and I bet you Doug would agree. The PSK is well thought out. I think if a plastic shelter were included it would make things a whole lot easier.

<br>I was not trying to be derogatory Chris. I am trying to understand the priorities. You see I think that a kit has to get the job done whether it is one day or several weeks that is the bottom line. SAR will stop looking after awhile and you will be on you own and that is that. I do not understand why you responded to me that way. Do you think something is wrong with the question?<br><br>

That is quite a list you have. Have you been in a real life survival ordeal before?

Chris,<br>I read your article (Lessons Learned So Near, Yet So Far). That was interesting I am glad you made it out okay. I did not fare so well. I myself was in an ordeal 3 years ago; I lost 27 lbs in 2 1/2 weeks and went through a brutal experience. Ignorance carries a high price. Survival is an interesting experience all it means is if you live through the trauma you will have to deal with the consequences of your actions for the rest of your life. <br>Said another way. It is better to lose a finger than a hand, a hand rather than an arm!! <br><br>I don’t know what else to say Chris. I did not come here to argue with you, you appear to be one of the good guys, so I will be on my way.<br><br>

It would be a worse case scenario situation. Do you think the PSK could hold up as is? Because if it cannot hold up than what would you do different.

First you will have to worry about your water supplies. Than about exposure and than food. All of the above will have to be obtainded in the different way depending on your location. Place were you are stranded will provide you with everything you need assuming that you know how to benefit from the environment. You basic kit would provide you with all necessities such as fire (assuming there is wood) or food(river/forrest animals). The thing is that you mentioned Arctic regions where obtaining food or warmth will be very hard, or desert where water is almost non existant. Also the other issue that you have to thing about is your main goal. Is it trying to survive (just existance) or is there a point (location) that you are trying to reach. I don't think that PSK alone would be sufficient to survive for four weeks but give me my jacket and tell me to stuff my pockets with everything I can and my survival chances will skyrocket.

I would like to learn more of your ordeal, the good decisions you made and the mistakes. 2.5 weeks is quite an extended period of time, a length that would sorely test folks under ideal conditions.

I do not think the “kit” is the total be all answer to a survival situation. Knowledge, by far is the most important tool one carries all the time. I am sure many people buy “survival kits” thinking the kit in it self would save them. Many of these individuals may not even know what is really in the kit or how the items may be used or adapted for various purposes. I am not suggesting for a moment a minimalist approach, trust me I carry an enormous amount of the items commonly discussed on this site. Most, granted not all survival situations are in the 24-72 hr. range. In addition to the standard shelter, fire, water, food priorities, my next main goal would be attracting attention; this is what is going to get me rescued. Pete

WHOA! My tongue in cheek reply was not directed at you at all! Your entry posed interesting questions. I was merely kicking at the pre concieved assumption a PSK will only do so much, for so long, for this much.

Yes, to MCSE guy, We all from time to time word things that can easily be mis-construed as a personal jibe. This happens because we become comfortable communicating on these boards to a degree we let our personalities come through, which are not always easy to interpret writing. You will understand that Chris is the head dude around these parts and is the one who keeps things on an even keel (a fitting pun!) Welcome, and please stay. We are always looking for good questions and good answers equally. Signed, The other Andy.

By the 3rd day I'd be out of cigarettes<br>and would be forced to Swim,walk,force march,<br>crawl,paddle,snowshoe,dogsled,hanglide,swing<br>from vine to vine to the nearest 7-11<br>(smile)<br><br>JBL

I'm a bit surprised by the general trepidation expressed by some of the posts. I'll admit that most, myself included, have never been subjected to the rigors of a true survival situation so we must answer with a modicum degree of humility and error on the side of caution.<br><br>Still, I have to beleive that most, if not all of us on the forum, would likely survive 4 weks in the wild provided the conditions were not too extreem (desert or arctic) and barring severe personal injury. After all, the PSK is justa set of tools to support the most import tool we all carry, our brains. Even the most inexerienced of us should have learned enough from this forum and our other experiences to make enough "right" choices and avoid serious "wrong" choices to last 4 weeks. If not, them perhaps it's time to reexamine what you put in your PSK.<br><br>I know we slamed the TV "Survivor" show as being basically inane. But even those inept, unskilled soap apera wanna-be's lasted 4 weeks. Granted, they had meager rations and evac helocopters on call, but they basically did very little to "survive." Most of use would at least be able to do as well as them, and I hope we'd actually do a bit better than them.<br><br>Perhaps I'm looking at a glass half full.<br><br>But this does drive home an important point. All of the forum emails and catalog orders won't help one iota if we do not practice the skills. I have practiced using bits and pieces of my kit, setting fire to a couple of tinder tabs from Park-Rite, for example. But I haven't strung then together in a realistic setting and I should.<br><br>I displayed the contents of my unassembled PSK to the boys in our scout troop last January and issue a challenge to them. I encouraged them to persue Wilderness Survival merit badge at camp this summer. One of the requirements is to build a shelter and spend one night in it. I told them that I would do the same if they did. I tok a quick poll a two weeks ago and about a half dozen scouts are still planning on doing it. So I'll be out there too. I know it's only on night, but its a start. Perhaps I'll organize a survival theme weekend campout for the "survivors" where we set out with only our fanny packs and PSKs. Again, not too stressfull, but it will start to build on the summer camp experience.

<br><br>You guys are making me look bad.<br><br>First: Chris and Don point out that will to live counts for more than equipment...I didn't say that I would roll up and die. I assumed a worst case scenario--stranded on a desert isle/ plane crash in the Klondike, that sort of thing. I was quoting the odds. If uninjured, and assuming adequate clothing, I could walk to safety from my usual stamping grounds in less than a week, even the places that I go to to get away from everyone. Most places probably only hours.<br><br>Second: Andy, you don't have to be "other." I'll start going by what my wife and friends call me....er, nope, this is a family forum. You might have to be the "other" Andy after all. Maybe we can trade off. I'll take it Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. You take Friday, Saturday and Sunday. We'll alternate Thursdays.<br><br>Take care,<br><br>Andy ( It is Wednesday, right?)

Well, you could one-up me and become the other, other Andy<br><br>If I am ever lucky enough to find myself in a true survival situation with all my kit (with an audience of unprepared), I will be able to die contented. I will then have the pleasure of full vindication for ALL the ribbing I have ever gotten for my gear fettish. Kinda ironic, aint it? smiles, <br><br>Signed, one of the Andys.

AndyO -<br><br>>>>pleasure of full vindication for ALL the ribbing I have ever gotten for my gear fetish.<br><br>Isn't that the truth. I take all sorts of static from husband and friends about this. I have the usual in a trunk kit (small tent, water, food, knives, paracord, fire stuff, comm stuff, money) and my husband thinks I'm nuts.<br><br>BUT - whenever there's a problem, he's very glad that stuff is back there. We haven't had to go offroad because of a major catastrophe, but we have had 4 hour stuck-on-the-road trafiic jams with cars overheating and hungry, thirsty kids. I also travel easier knowing I have my gear and know how to use it.<br><br>The only ones in my family who like doing the prep work are my 9 yo and 7 year old kids!<br><br>Any one else have spouse problems along these lines? How do you handle it?<br><br>Solo Mamabear :-(

Chris,<br>I guess I misunderstood you. I am not use to talking in this way. Sorry about that!

Have you considered spouse swapping?<br>Actually, that would be a bad idea because we would fight constantly about what and who's gear to fillup the cargo area of the sport 'ute for the trip to 7-eleven!

AndyO -<br><br>>>Have you considered spouse swapping?<br>Actually, that would be a bad idea because we would fight constantly about what and who's gear to fillup the cargo area of the sport 'ute for the trip to 7-eleven! <<<<<<br><br>Actually, I don't think there'd be ANY fighting. There'd be TWO sport 'utes in the driveway and we'd both have great gear that we were totally satisfied with....uhhh, yeah, that IS a dream, isn't it?!! :-)<br><br>Mamabear

Never what I would call an ordeal. Often camping, hiking and backpacking. When I have volunteered into the wilderness I have never gone poorly prepared. I haven't been placed into a wilderness situation by surprise as yet (read plane crash or Winter storm stranding etc). Learned most of the skills I have through the scouts as a much younger person. Have polished them up a bit since joining this forum. This forum has enabled me to actually slim down what I carry into the wilderness by helping me to focus on the truley important. An example is casting aside the 10 pound tent for a 2 pound tarp. I still carry a down pillow in a satin case for the comfort though if I am planning to be out for more than a day.<br><br>miniMe == meBrad

Andy (it's Thursday; you get the first one...),<br><br>According to your signature line, we are one....I'm confused. <br><br>Take care,<br><br>Not Andy

Hi: I am a new member and when I read these posts, I thought I'd put in my two cents. My husband also thinks I'm crazy and that I'm an extremist about my efforts to be prepared. It helps to know that I'm not the only one who is having to deal with this same problem. I have learned to ignore the unfavorable remarks and just keep doing what I think is right. I'm so glad I found this forum; it's nice to know that there are other people who share the same concerns. <br>Dora

Dora,<br><br>Hello and welcome aboard. Most of us take a little flack from spouses and significant others, not to mention friends. My wife has went from indignant exasperation (I was a "paranoid freak") to good natured ribbing (now I'm an "overgrown boyscout") over the years, largely as a result of my ability to produce needed items at the right time. Hopefully, the third or forth time you can slap a bandaid on someone, or start a fire, or produce water and snacks when you're stuck in a traffic jam...all by "magic" (preparedness), your hubby will come around as well. <br><br>Good luck and take care,<br><br>Andy

Unfortunately, that is not my case. Ribbing in times of comfort and excess will always be the case for me. Metered appreciation in times of "them needin' what I gots" will be the only thanks I will ever get.

Hello Andy: Thanks for the advice and warm welcome! I think you're right. I guess in time, my husband will start thinking that this is a serious matter; not to be viewed as a "fad" or "just a phase." Take care. <br>Dora

Dora,<br><br>Take it slow & easy. Try rational arguments if he is amenable to them. Don't forget to include some emotionally appealing hooks too. Changing opinions & attitudes is not an easy or quick accomplishment. Make it as attractive & easy as possible. Remember, you're asking him to change a lot. But such a change is worth a lot of work, isn't it!<br><br>I admit it; I got lucky. I became interested in a San Francisco PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER.. By the time we got married (2 1/2 years later), she was already... well, compatible with me! (And that's saying a lot!) Now, God help anyone who interferes with our 2nd Amendment rights, BSA, or a thousand other matters not popular in her home town.<br><br>Good luck.<br><br>John

Here's my 10 cents worth for all it counts.<br>Your PSK is as it says your personal kit, designed to fit in your pocket in order to give you a slight edge in the event of things going wrong.<br>The old scouts motto still holds good "Be prepared" as a survivor there are two kinds of survival kits which you should always have close at hand. Your PSK and what I call a survival pouch which is one of my ammo pouches which holds brew kit, stove, high energy food, solar still, signalling devices and extras which I think I may need. This will enable my first 24 hrs to be reasonably comfortable.<br>Your knife/multitool or whatever you normally use should always be on your person, belt,pocket etc at all times except for security reasons.<br>The key to survival is knowlege, you need to know what to use, how to use it and where to use it. It is of no use to have even a massive survival kit without the knowlege to know how to use it.<br>Regards,<br> Diesel<br>

You covered it nicely, I think.