Fitzoid. Thanks for the thoughts. But I disagree on a couple of points.

First, you are right that an AM/FM radio is all that you really need. But "need" and "want" are two different things. In the event of an extended power outage, having the option of listening to something else besides AM and FM might be nice from an entertainment point of view. Shortwave would fill this gap nicely, and can be found for well under $50. Secondly, the ability to listen to the local 2M repeaters and TV audio would be useful as well for getting information. Hams are among the best informed people in the event of an emergency. The "DC-to-Daylight" would work well for this.

Secondly, I do recommend a hand-crank radio. I have the Grundig/Eton FR200 shortwave crank radio. You are wrong about the batteries. Lithium-ion batteries definately have a half-life even while in storage. NiCad batteries, on the other hand, can be stored for years with no ill effects other than self-discharge. I believe that NiMH batteries also survive storage well. The FR200 also has a single white LED built-in, so in one box you can have AM/FM/Shortwave, and illumination. Plus, you can crank it or put in AA batteries (your choice). Clearly, this is a lot of flexibility. The crank means not having to panic if the batteries in it are dead. You can use it all that you want, because you are not worried about "rationing" the battery power. The only problem with the FR200 is that it is too large for bugging out, but it is perfect for bugging in.

fitz,

Good points and well reasoned. I'd second having a small am/fm radio handy.

TRO

Are the rechargable batteries in the Eton/Grundig radios replaceable AA's that can be swapped easily or is it a different type battery?

I looked at the Eton/Grundig radios and then bought a Sony AM-FM TV Weather Radio instead. I can use standard NiMH rechargables (I already have a solar battery charger which will do four NiMH AA's) and not be hassled with cranking.

From what I can determine, the NOAA Weather channels are useless unless you are in their relatively small footprint. They use LOS ~162 MHz at 90-100 Watts, really just designed for guys out on their boats who need to know about storm fronts. However, it receives AM well, FM in mono format and the TV audio is very clear. I figure if a big earthquake hits it will be a race to see who can get their back-up power first and between AM, FM and TV audio, I should be well covered for local News.

So from your vast experience, is there a radio you can recommend? A 7 day camping trip. Thats what I would need one for.

I went with the Sony AM-FM TV Weather Radio . Runs on four AA batteries or 120 VAC and is a fairly simple reliable design.

Okay, from my "vast experience," <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> I'll recommend you consider a Sony ICF-S10MK2.

It's $10, Sony generally makes outstanding radios, and it compares favorably for distant AM reception with a $600+ ICOM R75. (See a review here.) You only need to worry about AM reception if you're in the wilderness; don't expect any FM reception unless you're fairly high up or near a major city. The radio weighs 7oz which is pretty good for backpacking, although some people might search for something lighter.

Also, if you're a ham, you should follow the Wilderness Protocol and monitor 146.52MHz on the 2M band. For the first 5 minutes of every 3 hour period starting at 7AM, many hams monitor this frequency for emergency communications. (It generally requires an LTZ -- a long tone zero via DTMF -- to get people's attention.) Some park rangers and police stations monitor this frequency constantly as well. You may want to ask at the ranger station if they monitor frequencies and if so, which ones. (Each VHF/UHF ham band has its own emergency frequency.) It's always nice to have a way to contact the outside world when your're out of cell phone range. (By the way, I should mention that you'd need a ham radio to do this, the above Sony is just a simple AM/FM receiver.)

Have fun and don't forget extra batteries,
Fitz

Hi Harrkev,

I enjoy your posts but I think you might want to be a bit more careful before telling someone "you are wrong." <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> I know a little about battery chemistry and I'm afraid you seem to be somewhat misinformed on a couple of issues.

First, none of the the wideband radios you reference is likely to get much, if any, shortwave reception. Rubber ducky antennas are simply the wrong lengh for HF and they are generally tuned between 140 to 800 MHz rather than shortwave frequencies. (They also tend to have negative gain.) A dedicated shortwave radio (or a just a long wire) might be an alternative, but shortwave quality in the US has certainly gone downhill in recent years. (How I miss Alistair Cooke on the BBC.) And it's just a wild guess, but I don't think most Americans would find Deutsche Welle's English language service particuarly entertaining.

As for batteries, I strongly (but cordially) disagree with you. NiMH battteries need to be carefully stored and conditioned (i.e., fully charged, discharged, and recharged, etc.) and you're not going to get that with a crank that charges them up to 10% of their capacity. They require this conditioning both when they are new and when they are taken out of storage. My guess is that the built-in NiMH's in your Eton are not in the best of shape. Even worse are the radios (like the Freeplay) that have solar chargers that constantly trickle charge the batteries. That is among the fastest way to kill most rechargable batteries, although a notable exception are sealed lead acid batteries which manage it quite well. (That's why hams love them for emergency use.)

Finally, you seem to have lost track of what I was referring to -- lithium-ion batteries are rechargeables --not disposables -- and they are not at all what I'm talking about. There are many, many types of lithium based batteries and lithium iron disulfides are the typical AA sized disposables you'd buy at a store. They have an extremely low self-discharge rate and the latest estimates for the most recent chemistries have raised their shelf-life to an astonishing 15 years. As far as I know, nothing else commercially avaiable comes close to this. They are also very light weight, which makes them great for EDC, and they work in extreme temperature ranges, particularly in the cold, which leaves alkalines in the dust.

Anyway, I don't mean to bust your chops, but I think most people have limited budgets for survival equipment and it's easy to get carried away with exotic solutions to simple problems. However, in this case, there are very low cost solutions to this problem, and I think they're worth advocating. As for listening to hams as a source of information, I remain somwhat dubious, but perhaps you have a point. Nonetheless, I'm not sure the benefit is worth the cost or the trouble of doing so for someone who isn't active on the ham bands on a regular basis.

Best,
Fitz

Fitzoid...

Sorry. Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers...

If you check my earlier posts, I specifically recommended a long wire for shortwave. Duckies are not great for anything HF. BTW: I EDC a Kenwood TH-F6a. This is a DC-to-Daylight rig with 5W transmit on 2M 220MHz, and 440MHz thrown in for good measure. Fun little toy.

Second, do not be so certain about the batteries. Those crank radios may sit on a box on the store shelf for a year or two. My radio actually takes a cordless phone battery. I know that cordless phone batteries sit on a shelf for years at Radio Shack. You are right about wearing them out from use, but I imagine that most people are not going to hand-crank a radio on a daily basis. The crank is there for an emergency. And if the rechargable battery wears out after two months of daily use, well, if your emergency lasts two months then a radio is the least of your problems.

I do agree about lithium primary cells being a nice idea. Unfortunately, cost is a big issue. Lithium AA batteries are terribly expensive. The last time that I purchased AA batteries, I got a brick of 100 for $17. That much money would only buy a handfull of lithiums. Unless you REALLY need it, lithiums are too expensive. In your past post, you also posted a link to an inexpensive Sony radio. Some people would be apprehensive about buying a $10 pack of batteries to go with their $10 radio. 123 cells are a better buy if you order over the internet, but I have never seen any radio that runs on those.

As I mentioned before, another thing that I like about the FR200 is that it has a built-in white LED useful for general illumination. I went through a couple of hurricanes two years ago, and spent many days without electricity. Having a light is comforting when it is pitch back out. Of course I have a lot of flashlights, but having one light that I know will not exhaust my battery supply is even more comforting. With battery-powered lights, I go into rationing mode, and try not to use a light if I don't really need it. With the FR200, I could just turn it on and then crank for 30 seconds every 15 minutes. All in all, a nice addition for the house.

I do, however, agree with you on the cost issue. Getting a $10 radio for now is perfectly fine if you have a few extra AA batteries stored away, and have to discipline not to rob the battery supply to refresh the kids toys and remote controls. But the FR200 makes a nice upgrade later on down the line.

i'm not sure with the many models of handcranked radio's out there, but mine two will accept alkalines. So even if your rechargable battery dies, you still have the battery option. On normal radio's you only have one option.

Cordless phone batteries can be stored for a long time because they are NiCad which can be stored in a somewhat discharged state and have the least self discharge out of all the rechargables.

Fitzoid, you wrote that NiMH must be carefully conditioned (fully discahrged and recharged), I'm assuming that was just a type and you meant NiCad becauee NiMH you don't want to fully discharge and recharge if you can help it, NiCad are the only batteries which should be conditioned this way. NiMH, LiON and such you should recharge when you use them and not let them get too low so as to not use up all the charge cycles or risk cell polarity reversal.

Even NiCad don't have a shelf life of forever, if you were going to buy one of these radios then at least pull it out and recharge it on a regular basis depending on the cell technology. I wonder if any are using a big (think 1F) capacitor, a tiny headphone radio could run a while from one of those.
I don't care for the idea of a hand cranked radio either, maybe because most of them just seem so cheaply made but it seems it would be much simpler to have the charger seperate from the radio and use a standard battery.