almost everything in this thread talks about Mocasins, Copperheads, and Rattlers. would this work for a coral snake bite also? I know the venom works in a totally different way.

There are some who say that the electro shock thing is not a good idea...

Here is one...

As for me, the jury is still out...

Hmm, this description from WebMD is similar to the information about HVDC--no one really knows what's happening. There are theories, but apparently little or no definitive scientific evidence to explain how it works. Nevertheless, with both hot water and HVDC, experience seems to demonstrate that there is some merit to the method.

Come to think of it, I'm not sure which treatment seems more far fetched at first blush--using hot water or electro-shock to treat a bite/sting. Science can often be surprising and weird. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

That's the treatment the hospital down on Galveston Island, Texas uses for stingray strikes. I haven't needed it but two of my friends did (seperate occasions). The both bring chemical handwarmers to the beach with them now for this very reason.

-Blast

Hi Old Bald Guy , it is good you are keeping an open mind. Much of what they say there is misleading and some is just not true, notice that they talk in generalities, could , may and apt to. They have not even tried it themselves or talked to anyone who has used HVDC in an appropriate manner. The points that were mentioned there were not issues at all with the ongoing trials in Ecuador.

Great care must be taken when using HVDC (read very short shocks) on the head and around the heart area. I don't recommend either, (especially from a stungun or car spark lead). That being said, it takes much more voltage than is necessary for this purpose, to cause problems to the heart and head. Is seems that it is a long duration of the shock that causes problems with the heart.

There are many out there who say that it doesn't work or that it is downright dangerous, but they are just parroting off what they have heard from someone else. Many medical "experts" don't do any research themselves but will accept the conclusions of any "official" small animal study without examining the merits or method of those studies. And those same "experts" will ignore 100% sucessful human trials done in another country, because it has not been done in the US. This is at best unscientific.

Just because there are lab tests which have been published does not mean that the conclusion was correct. Just think of the debate that has raged over weather to use a tourniquet or light pressure, or to cut and suck the wound with a snake bite.

For this reason, and the fact that many people will not take the time to read the studies for and against the subject (or are able to understand them), I will be going through them and writing reviews and summaries of the information for the site.

I find the hot water thing very interesting, I know that some people use a special little heater that looks like a lighter to heat the area of bee and wasp stings. It heats up the skin warm enough to deactivate the venom but not enough to burn. It really does work. Bee stings are similar to snake venom, so it is possible that it may help, I have no experience with this. I think that as the venom of a snake goes further in than a bee sting it may not be treated as effectively by heat.

Nighthiker I couldn't agree with you more.


Macgyver.

Coral snakes are elapids just like cobras. They have a different type of venom than viperidae (rattlesnakes, moccasins and copperheads) although it is still a lethal concotion of protiens. I'm not sure how it would react to a good dose of current. I'm not really familiar with the western species (Arizona coral snake) but the eastern coral is extraordinarily difficult to find. In fact, of all my years hunting snakes, I have only seen one in the wild and it was a roadkill. Considering the uncommon nature of human/coral snake interaction, the fact that a full grown adult is very small compared to most species, and the fact that they have short, fixed fangs and therefore have to chew the venom into the victim, I would say the likelihood of being bitten by one is about as likely as winning the lottery while being struck by lightning during a full solar eclipse while watching the aurora boriealis in Hawaii on February 29th. Just kidding. It is highly unlikely that someone would get bitten by one unless they actually pick one up or stick their hand somewhere it doesn't belong. I think the most likely way to find out about elapids are to find someone in a country where they are prevalent or ask someone at the zoo to let one bite them so you can hit them with a stun gun. I'm sure the likelyhood of that is pretty slim too. If you find out though, I would love to know.

I would think that hot water would have no effect on snake or spider venom since they are ectotherms that don't become active until the temperature rises. The fact that they are most active when the mercury rises would indicate that heat wouldn't have an effect although I could be wrong. Snakes have enzymes in their stomachs that digest their food and if the temperature iisn't high enough, the food will rot in their stomachs. So at least for snakes and spiders, heat might actually help the venom along (just a thought, I really have no idea whether it would or not).

Boacrow, Ron Guderian said that the HVDC method had been used with success with Neurotoxic snakes.

Macgyver.

"... keeping an open mind..."

My mind is so open that sometimes I am accused of being an airhead. I remember years ago reading about the outboard motor shock thing being used in South America, and thought "wow, what a deal." If I were ever bitten by a nasty one (as almost happened to me with a fer-de-lance years ago), 'specially if hours or days from a hospital, I would be zapping myself for all I was worth. You can't argue with success. I just wanted to throw in something from the other side of the fence...

I generally do not use absolutes, but in this case I will say categorically: DO NOT USE HEAT (immersion or otherwise) for a snake/insect bite in which the toxin’s effect is systemic or away from the site of invenomnation. Applying heat to invenomation site for toxins that will affect the heart, nervous system or are hemotoxin in nature will only hasten the effects and could be lethal.

Pete