With today's news that the W.H.O. is investigating the first possible human-to-human transmission of Bird Flu, I went ahead and popped for $1100 for 120 doses of Tamiflu for my family FAK. Should be here in 3 weeks. My partner ordered from the same company a few months ago and his MD verified that they were legitimate with valid lot numbers, etc.

I was wondering if anyone else has stocked up on Tamiflu or any other "Plan B" option in lieu of vaccinations.

(cough) Not yet. (sniff)

Seriously, I probably won't until the problem shows itself as real.

Little early IMHO. Who knows what the strain will be IF it becomes serious.

They've investigated other possible human-to-human cases before and found no mutation. I'll worry if and when it is confirmed that there is a human-to-human strain that is easily infectious.

120 doses? How big is your family? Or are you looking to black market it? Do you know how to store it, when to use it? Or are you going to self diagnose?

Seriously, hoarding meds is about the stupidest damn thing I can think of. It goes right down there with animal sacrifices and burning witches, thinking that some god is annoyed with you.

And no, you aren't getting special treatment, I tear the head off everyone who hoards meds.

It's his first post. Be gentle. Let's at least wait for his second post before we tear him a new one. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The jury's still out on this Indonesia cluster. I don't think it'll amount to much because the virus has already been analyzed at two different reference labs and both showed no new mutations, so these people probably got it some other way or were somehow particularly susceptible. I mean, I don't mean to be flippant--these poor peole are still dead, but I seriously don't think that it's the start of a pandemic. (I sound like the naysayer in some bad movie just before the new killer virus starts spreading like wildfire)

I discourage stockpiling Tamiflu, too. How did you come up with 120 doses? Is that a case? Because 120 doses is enough for 12 full therapeutic courses (at least of normal flu).

Since we don't know what organism the next pandemic will be caused by, it's rather hard to prepare for it except for general preparedness steps. The next real pandemic strain could be totally immune to Tamiflu. Masks? Gloves? No good evidence anywhere that they would be effective in a pandemic situation.

I don't know if you have heard about the noise tamiflu has made in Japan. It seems some people may have been experiencing nasty (possibly fatal) side effects to the drug.

Doctors in Japan warning about tamiflu sidefects

Over here there has been much hype about the H5N1 strain with some people thinking the world is coming to an end. The truth of the matter is, the only people who are getting this virus at the moment are:
1: Those who eat improperly cooked sick birds or prepare sick poultry for meals, (many people in Asia do this because they can't afford to eat their healthy birds, they sell the healthy ones and eat the sick ones)
2: Those who eat RAW duck blood soup, from sick ducks.
3: Those who have fighting cocks (the keepers feed the birds from their own mouths!

There has been at least one instance of a doctor treating an infected person who contracted the virus but that was put down to him ingesting contaminated body fluids.

The expert who discovered this strain of avian influenza said that in the lab it is rather easy to mutate a virus such as this but in nature it practically never happens.

Sorry if you've already heard this, I just thought I would share a different point of view.

Cheers.

I have read that there is a very small window of opportunity for using antibiotics. Check with your doctor -- if he/she knows.

MRSA has been showing up around here for the last couple of years, and many doctors are still diagnosing it as insect (like spider) bites.

Sue

You may want to review these:
http://www.who.int/csr/disease/avian_influenza/guidelines/useofoseltamivir2006_03_17A.pdf
http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/transcripts/t060114.htm

The true effectiveness of Tamiflu hasn't really been well tested in humans. Anecdotal data suggests that it SHOULD shorten the couse of infection. It is unlikely to Prevent infection. "Bird" (avian) flu, strain H5N1 influenza is a virus, not a bacteria - so antibiotics will be of no use in treating it, unless to treat secondary infections in a "rundown" host.

As I said, I wasn't giving him special treatment just because he's knew. This is as silly as rubbing snow on frost bite, and just as likely to be bad in the long run.

These strange cases in Japan have been making the headlines there for a while now. I think it's been a while since the last case. Unlike the US, Tamiflu is used much more frequently in Japan. If these behavioral changes are due to Tamiflu, then we may not have noticed them here simply because it's not used that much here and/or health care providers may not make the connection and report it. Plus, I don't think it's prescribed for children much in America.

avian flu is a economical problem at the moment. Company's in infected area's can't sell the chickens and stuff. Infectious rate from animal to people are very low, you almost have to do it with a chicken to get it.

If might mutate in to strain that will be transmittet from human to human or it might not. We don't know, but that risk has been here all the time. The media is just giving a lot more attention to it.

Vacins against a human to human strain of H5N1 are not availible for a very simple reason, there is not human to human strain of H5N1 yet and you can not predict how virusses mutate.

Tamiflu is a drugs that hopefully will reduce the spread of the virus inside your body, so your own body will have enough strenght left to fight it off. But that what we hope, but the virus can easily mutate in a diffrent way.

Welcome to the forum. I have a few questions about the Tamiflu purchase:

1) I thought it was available only through a prescription. Did you find a doctor who would write that large of a purchase?
2) Where was the seller located and where did they get the Tamiflu? I'm concerned about some of the internet sellers of prescription drugs (and others) substituting cheap knock-offs, or even worse, useless placebos.
3) What is the expiration date and how to you plan to safely store it?

I think that it is probably premature to load up on that much for the cost, since it is only a treatment and not a vaccine.

- Brian

Roche's data on tamiflu is pretty clear- the senspension is only good good for about ten days and MUST refrigerated. The tablets require storage at 25C (77F) with limited variation, and that it shouldn't go below 15C (60F) or above 30C (89F). I haven't found out what happens if it gets too warm, but I doubt that it's good for the effectiveness of the drug.

Every so often, you used to hear horror storied about improperly stored meds that had soured and gone toxic. I've never found any first or second hand accounts of this, it's always been "friend of a buddy" war stories. But they are worth keeping in mind.

That's part of why I hammer people who stash meds. They don't have a suitable facilty, much less the training, as a rule.

Thanks for the info Raven!

I agree with you about hoarding meds by the untrained. It seems to be an opportunity to become seriously ill by spoiled/expired drugs.

I try to keep an extra week of my prescription meds (rotated each month when I renew). It's only to cover me if I forget to pick them up, get hit by the annual Dallas-Ft. Worth ice storm or the pharmacy supplies have run out. Each month I set aside a few extra tablets in order to build up a two-week reserve.

I forgot that Tamiflu can be used prophylactically, although it's unclear if it helps for preventing H5N1 infections. Currently, the prophylactic dose is once per day for up to six weeks, so 120 doses would be enough for three maximum-period prophylactic courses. Well, you could take it longer, but no one's studied it carefully past six weeks yet.

But that's just based on using Tamiflu with normal flu. All the rules could go out the window with the next real pandemic flu virus.

Arney,

I didn't know that it could be used for preventive purposes. Still, don't you think that the flu virus mutates too often to make Tamiflu to keep from getting infected? Overuse also might allow the virus to mutate into a Tamiflu-resistant version, much like bacteria.

Tamiflu is already given to people like poultry workers who have to destory infected chicken flocks or health care workers (if they can afford it, that is). There's still no good evidence on whether it's actually protecting them yet since transmission is still rare anyway.

Hypothetically speaking, if H5N1 went pandemic, I'm sure that it would develop resistance to Tamiflu fairly quickly. And the more people who took it, the faster it would happen because the more the virus would be exposed to it. It's the same argument people make about overusing antibiotics, but influenza virus can mutate much faster and more radically than most bacteria.

I would add that the possibility that a flu strain can quickly develop resistance wouldn't necessarily be an argument for not stocking Tamiflu, at least at the community level. You can still potentially save a lot of lives before resistance develops. Then again, considering how much it costs, maybe ensuring more basic preparedness would be better money spent. <shrug>

ROTFLAHMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

''ROTFLAHMAO''

What????

i think he ment ROFLMAO: roll on floor laughing my a** off.

That photo was genius! It didn't even require lots of work in photoshop...

Rolling
On
The
Floor
Laughing
And
Howling
My
***
Off

Well...

To be frank, stockpiling a marginally effective medication that is mainly a symptom suppressor is not a good idea.

You can, quite literally, play soccer with a H5N1 infected bird and not become infected, unless you have a weakened immune system or don't shower afterwards for a week or so. I've personally handled six confirmed-infected birds from our area without protective clothing, and not a thing happened.

My doctor agrees with me on this: The Bird Flu Scare is just that, a scare. If Bird Flu scares you, why aren't you continually doped up on antibiotics in case you get the plague? Because plague is far more likely than the (relatively benign) H5N1.

Ah... so well put. Nicely done indeed. I'm pretty sure that given the lack of response that this particular person was a troll. I'm ignoring from here on out unless proven otherwise.