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#65827 - 05/15/06 11:46 PM Rethink PFAK ???
tfisher Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/01
Posts: 186
Loc: Illinois, USA
I have noticed some of my Search and Rescue students seem to get a false sense of security once they have prepared their personal first aid kit (PFAK). They seem to believe every medical situation can be addressed in the little kits. Most of the items in the kit are to take care of small everyday problems of cuts, blisters, headaches, and upset stomachs.

So my question is should we rethink our PFAK somewhat to aid in our survival or keeping the medical problem in check so it does not become more of a problem or trigger the domino effect of a true survival situation.

For instance consider the following survival scenario: A common reason or a trigger to a survival situation is an injury to our mobility, or in other words an injury to feet, legs or hips such that it removes your ability to walk. A hiker that is trekking through a very remote area that falls and fractures their foot or leg. This could be a serious survival situation. Now the hiker with no ability for mobility has to make shelter, fire and have water enough to survive. Now I know that all of the ETS readers will pick apart my simple scenario here and create ingenious remedies and solutions. But my question and point is; should we look at statistics of what medically creates survival situations and equip ourselves for those incidents instead of 2 gauze 2 x 2’s 3 aspirins, 2 adhesive bandages? I realize we must be realistic as well we can’t carry an emergency room in our packs either. Your Thoughts please!
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If you want the job done right call "Tactical Trackers"

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#65828 - 05/16/06 03:26 AM Re: Rethink PFAK ???
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Dislocated my kneecap once upon a time on my family land. Not 600m from the house. That's part of what brought me to ETS the first time.

I was lucky enough to have my knife with me, a bandana, and a do-rag. Tore the teeth out of that poor Gerber using it to saw down a sapling to splint it with, and another to make a crude crutch out of. It I'd been anywheres else, given the weather, I'd have been buzzard chow.

Lessons learned are many. They can be summed up as, be ready to improvise and don't quit. Don't try to be a hero and pop it back into place, deal with it as is as much as you can.

That being said, I'm thinking I'm going to add a better FAK to my bigger kits.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#65829 - 05/16/06 05:45 AM Re: Rethink PFAK ???
Raspy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 351
Loc: Centre Hall Pa
A PFAK by its very nature is small. Your only option is really only to be able to treat minor injuries. When you start traveling then you need to carry larger or supplimental kits to deal with greater levels of injury. These other kits should be geared to meet the most expected types of injuries. As you said even these have limits. Shy of a fully equiped and staffed ER you can't cover all situations. It just doesn't fit. So you gear up for the most likely events and then try to improvise the rest.
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When in danger or in doubt
run in circles scream and shout
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#65830 - 05/16/06 05:49 AM Re: Rethink PFAK ???
duckear Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 478
I disagree that an immobilizing injury is a leading cause of "survival" situations. I think becoming lost and inadequate clothing for the weather is #1.

That said, the best, practical equipment for fracture management is two SAM splints and the knowledge of how to rig them. With two, you can splint anything short of a femur fracture.

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#65831 - 05/16/06 06:37 AM Re: Rethink PFAK ???
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
I think that the first thing you need to do is stomp on that false sense of security.Then it an absolute that you always travel in pairs taking the proper gear with you. No Gear, No Partner, No Go! (NG,NP,NG)
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I don't do dumb & helpless.

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#65832 - 05/16/06 07:04 AM Re: Rethink PFAK ???
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
I think that the first thing you need to do is stomp on that false sense of security.


This seems like a reasonable approach. Try to build traning scenarios that expose the weaknesses in their equipment and force them to improvise.

-john


Edited by JohnN (05/16/06 07:04 AM)

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#65833 - 05/16/06 11:15 AM Re: Rethink PFAK ???
JIM Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 1032
Loc: The Netherlands
A PSK, FAK, BOB, whatever kit you make should be designed to take care of small problems and make it easier for you to improvise a solution for a large problem. Nothing more and nothing less. The perfect survival kit would be the world, packed in a tin/bag. But since we can't do that, there's always a level of improvisation and engenuity required.


Edited by JIM (05/16/06 01:24 PM)
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#65834 - 05/16/06 01:18 PM Re: Rethink PFAK ???
norad45 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1506
I agree entirely. That's why the only first aid supplies I carry while hunting are (theoretically anyway) there to deal with major emergencies. Aspirin for heart attack, Benadryl for severe allergic reaction, etc. I'm adding some sort of trauma pad, and I also like the idea of a ready-made splint.

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#65835 - 05/16/06 01:21 PM Re: Rethink PFAK ???
BrianTexas Offline
Ordinary Average Guy
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 304
Loc: North Central Texas, USA
You've brought up a good series of questions. I'm am building my kits for the first time and have quickly learned that commercial PSKs and FAKs are good starts but not sufficient in many circumstances. The reality is that risk analysis, situational awareness and training will always be more important than mere gear.

The first lesson that I've learned is that no PSK, BOB or FAK can cover all circumstances. But that's not their purpose. The intent is to solve the small and medium stuff and improvise for larger issues. However, risk abounds in this world; the only no-risk place that I know of is heaven and I'm not ready to check-in to my cloud.
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#65836 - 05/16/06 01:23 PM Re: Rethink PFAK ???
BrianTexas Offline
Ordinary Average Guy
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 304
Loc: North Central Texas, USA
It's OK, Ironraven. The buzzard would have pulled out your minimum FAK and eaten the antiacids to help get you down. Afterwards it would have found the bandana and wiped the crumbs from its mouth. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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Also known as BrianEagle. I just remembered my old password!

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#65837 - 05/16/06 01:36 PM Re: Rethink PFAK ???
duckear Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 478
Quote:
I think that the first thing you need to do is stomp on that false sense of security.Then it an absolute that you always travel in pairs taking the proper gear with you. No Gear, No Partner, No Go! (NG,NP,NG)


I disagree. The thought of never going out alone is truly horrible. I can't imagine not having the experience of 1000 mallards dropping in around me as I sat alone, camouflaged in a small kayak while hunting deep in a Mississippi swamp! Had I been with my usual hunting partners, no way that would have happened. Part of the attraction of being outdoors is the risk and part of the satisfaction is containing and minimizing that risk (as much as humanly possible) through careful thought and planning.

Completely eliminate the risk and you might as well be playing a video game.

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#65838 - 05/16/06 02:18 PM Re: Rethink PFAK ???
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
We are in the buisness of minimising risks, not aggravating them. By all means walk alone, but be very wary of the risks and the real concern of this thread is the inexperienced getting overcocky about the level of protection their kit gives them. The so called " immortality syndrome."
_________________________
I don't do dumb & helpless.

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#65839 - 05/16/06 02:55 PM Re: Rethink PFAK ???
hailstone Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/05/06
Posts: 37
Loc: Montana
I disagree. There are many life saving items that could be carried in a PFAK, such as Diphenhydramine (Benadryl), asprin, Epinephrine (Epi-Pen), a perscribed inhaler, CPR mask, Glucose, and other personal medications.

Most bleeding control items, splints, and litters can be improvised in the field, but you cannot make asprin from willow bark in the amount of time that it would be effective, nor could you make an Epi-Pen from duct tape, p-cord, and a tinderquick.

And then to agree with what others have said, what you carry in your head is more important than any thing you could ever put in a kit.

Just my thoughts...

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#65840 - 05/16/06 08:04 PM Re: Rethink PFAK ???
tfisher Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/01
Posts: 186
Loc: Illinois, USA
These are all great responses and we are going to consider all of them in our discussions.

Our teams do carry a full trauma gear broken down into modules so no one person carries all the load, we also usually have more than one trained Emergency Medical Technician on each team as well.

The question arose when an off duty team members was out in a state park and assisted to a mountain biker that was injured and a member that was in a home improvement business when a young child tipped over a sink of some sort and received a major laceration to the arm, the first thing the person done was reach for his EDC PFAK and it just wasn’t enough. So as stated you improvise and quickly I might add.

I hope I did not imply (it was not my intent) that immobilizing injury is the leading cause of survival situations. That being said, I have worked several hundred searches in my career and medical problems have been at least in the top three. As was mentioned lost or disoriented and weather are (or have been in my observations) at the top of the list as well.

I thank you all again
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If you want the job done right call "Tactical Trackers"

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#65841 - 05/16/06 08:08 PM Re: Rethink PFAK ???
tfisher Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/01
Posts: 186
Loc: Illinois, USA
As another note I have been considering, at least for my kit as hailstone suggested, the aspirin, Epi, etc. in my PFAK. I think I have concluded that it will be in the kit, it is just to hard to improvise some things and I am in remote areas by myself for the most part.
_________________________
If you want the job done right call "Tactical Trackers"

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#65842 - 05/16/06 09:14 PM Re: Rethink PFAK ???
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
i am guilty of having a larger than usual PFAK. but thats also because i usually hike with 2 dogs and people who aren't prepared for even a blister. honestly, i'd rather deal with a little extra weight or bulk and have something when you need it. for example, i also carry a small bottle of sterile eye wash which i can use for wound irrigation if need be. some might think this a needless addition but i like having that option in my PFAK. nothing in my kit makes me falsly confident though. my hope is to never have to use any of it.

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#65843 - 05/16/06 10:01 PM Re: Rethink PFAK ???
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
No argument there. I think that the E.T.S. motto should be: " We pray for the best, We plan for the worst."
_________________________
I don't do dumb & helpless.

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#65844 - 05/17/06 02:52 AM Re: Rethink PFAK ???
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
I actually thought about that. Never mind that the buzzards had already gone south in anticipation of winter....

Play possum. They should get attention if they are are a tree top level. If one lands, give it the "conan chomp", and use it as a club on the next few that try to nibble on me. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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