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#65663 - 05/13/06 06:08 AM Want a new job as an outfitter?
massacre Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 781
Loc: Central Illinois
Okay, now that I have your attention... <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Let's pretend you've just retired from your day job and moved to the lovely town of In Theory. You've decided to go head first into an online outfitter business and your very first client has decided to test your mettle.

The client has a bonus coming and isn't sure if it's going to be good or really good. So he's challenged you to provide two lists of items, 1) Best Bang for the Buck and 2) Top of the line without being ridiculously expensive. The two need not be mutually exclusive.

He wants to start hiking all over the world and needs 4 season items and will encounter every type of weather. If you choose something that's 2-3 season, you'll need to include another item for the off season(s) if it's not a layer. This will increase the cost, bulk and weight if he needs to carry both, but he wants you to display your knowledge of layering. It's possible he will be moving from temperate to winter or from temperate to desert conditions in the same hike, so it's likely he'll need all of his gear all the time. Weight and size will be a factor.

Please provide specific items (not generic) you would recommend based on experience or research through online opinion and their estimated cost. The items should be readily available online or in stores. Be as complete as you can, but no points lost for not making a recommendation if you don't know a particular area.

Clothing and Protective Gear
  • Head
  • Torso
  • Hands
  • Lower Body (including underwear)
  • Feet


Equipment Needed
  • Pack(s)
  • Sleeping Bag
  • Tent


I'll post my favorites and their costs when you all are done. Sounds like a fun job to me... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Found this site with some really good information:
http://www.princeton.edu/~oa/equipment/index.shtml


Edited by massacre (05/13/06 06:48 AM)
_________________________
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards.

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#65664 - 05/13/06 10:05 AM Re: Want a new job as an outfitter?
ADRENJUNKY Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 42
Loc: Michigan, USA
Underwear- UnderArmour
Base layer- UnderArmour (from head to toe)
Hat- UnderAurmour Knit Cap with ARMOURBLOCK for cold and Filson Shelter Cloth Packer Hat
Pants- BDU's 3 seasons, M-65's in the winter
Shirt- Royal Robbins 5-11 shirts
Hands- OR COULOIR GLOVES and PS BASE LINERS
Feet- Cabela's Perfect Hiker (winter have found one I like yet)
Jacket- Fleece 300 pile with a ECWS Jacket over it.

Pack- Kelty 50th Anniv. Back Pack (if I have to pick just one)
Tent- Big Agnes SL3
Bag- Haven't decided on one yet



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#65665 - 05/13/06 08:33 PM Re: Want a new job as an outfitter?
massacre Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 781
Loc: Central Illinois
Excellent choices AdrenJunky. I haven't used the gloves but I've heard good things. I looked and didn't see the BASE liners, but I saw the OR PS 100 Liners and figure they are close.. synthetic wicking light liner material. All around high quality and value on everything.

Nice pack.. hopefully I'll see some daypacks too, but that's a serious hiking pack.

The only concern I have is the cotton in the M-65 and 5-11 or am I mistaken about their composition?
_________________________
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards.

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#65666 - 05/14/06 02:59 AM Re: Want a new job as an outfitter?
ADRENJUNKY Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 42
Loc: Michigan, USA
The 5-11 shirts I use are the 4.7 oz 100% nylon ripstop. The M-65 are cotton, which I don't like, but still waiting to find something better. The only way I were them is over Under Armour for the wicking.

The liner gloves are the same just updated. Mine being the older.

My day pack is a Kelty also along with my weekender and multi-day (I have 4 Kelty packs 2000, 3250,4200, and 5700, think I like Kelty <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />) I also use a hydration pack by cabelas with 250 storage.

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#65667 - 05/14/06 03:35 AM Re: Want a new job as an outfitter?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I like Kelty too but for a world traveler I would suggest something more rugged, like the Gregory Spear UM21(maybe found in a civilian material instead of camo). It's a very versitile pack, military tough, cost new about $900-$1250, find them used for $350-$450.

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#65668 - 05/15/06 02:13 AM Re: Want a new job as an outfitter?
Be_Prepared Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/07/04
Posts: 530
Loc: Massachusetts
Danger, long reply...
Interesting post, everyone has their favorites of course. Your question said that this person is hiking, so weight and bulk are important. If you were talking about an outfitted trip with vehicles, or animals, you could go to Cabelas and buy some of their Outfitter series gear and be pretty happy, but, it's heavy stuff. Making that leap from 3 season to 4 is a big investment in both weight and bulk usually, driving some decisions.

TENTS:
When you go four season, one big problem is that you need a stout tent, it'll have extra poles, heavier material, and perhaps more hefty stakes and guys. For rough conditions, a tent like the North Face Mountain 25 (2-person) or VE-25 (3-person) would be good. They are heavy tents 10lbs+, so you'd split up the poles, body, and fly among 2 or 3 hikers. Most of the time, when I'm backpacking 3 season style, I carry a Sierra Designs Lightning. It's a 2 person (or 1 with pack) and it has a full rain fly. It's free standing, and weighs about 4 lbs. (You can get by with a lighter 1 person tent, but, I've always felt like I wanted to be able to have gear in there in bad weather, so I use a 2 person for myself. That strategy doesn't work well with heavier 4 season tents, because you really want to split the weight with someone.)

PACK:
I currently wear a huge beast, because I'm usually the group leader and typically carry some "extras" with me. My current pack is a Kelty Red Cloud 6650. (Yes, that's 6650 cubic inches, it's a monster). The good news is, you can carry most everything you need inside the pack, including tent and sleeping bag. It really helps in poor weather conditions to have everything contained. This pack has a top that can be removed, and turned into a fanny pack, which I've used at times. I have a "ten essentials" kit basically in the top, so it's pretty easy to grab that and go if we take a little day hike away from base camp. There are a lot of adjustments for the waist belt and shoulder straps, so you should be able to make it ride on you well.

Having said all that, if I weren't the group leader on a trip, I would not wear a pack that big. I have a smaller pack that is about 4000 cu in, and isn't as bulky, it's an old pack from EMS, I don't know what the model was called back then, but, it's much better if you're going to be on mountain hikes, because it keeps the weight closer to your back. It's also great for bushwacking, because it doesn't stick out on the sides as much. Some of the Osprey packs are like this style, and I have seen a North Face Pivotol/Catalyst pack recently that's around 4000 cu in, and looks similar to the one I have. It has an interesting waist/strap system that's supposed to pivot with your hip/back movement. (could be just good marketing)

For an expedition type pack, you might also consider the ones that Deuter makes for NOLS (National Outdoor Leadership School). They are hefty packs, but, they'll take you anywhere. They are on the NOLS web site:
http://www.nols.edu/store/product.php?productid=16400&cat=285&page=1

Gregory packs are very well built, and there are a variety out there. They are pretty pricy, but, friends who wear them say they wouldn't buy any other brand.

SLEEPING BAG:
For a sleeping bag, I think you need to consider a couple factors. Do you want one bag, or a bag, and an overbag. Wiggy's, for example, makes an Antarctic bag rated to -60 degrees F. You can get the FTRSS overbag and probably be comfortable to absolute zero! (Ok, don't try that.) You also need to decide if you use down or synthetic fill. The synthetics are getting pretty close to the compressibility of down now, and the weight is getting close too. They will do better in wet conditions also. Still, what do I usually have, a down bag.

I have a relatively inexpensive Coleman -10 degree bag for winter. Most people frown on Coleman, but, their Exponent gear is pretty good (although a little heavier than the competition). It's filled with Primaloft stuff, so it can get wet and still have a prayer of getting dried out in the field. If price is no object, for winter bags, Wiggys bags look good, or maybe a Mountain Hardware design bag.

For 3 season, I use an EMS Mountain Light 20 bag. It's down, very light, and packs very small. It has a Pertex outer shell, so it's pretty good at shedding water, which is key if you're going to carry down. This is what's in my pack about 75% of the time.

Don't forget that you need to have some kind of pad under that bag. I use a self inflating ProLite 4 from Therm-a-rest. Some folks don't like to take a chance with a leak in an inflatable in the back woods, so either carry the repair kit, or a closed cell foam roll-up pad.

I better stop before this gets out of control. It's way too long, and I've only talked about the tent, pack, and bag so far. <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
_________________________

- Ron

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#65669 - 05/15/06 09:45 PM Re: Want a new job as an outfitter?
massacre Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 781
Loc: Central Illinois
Nicely done. Can't wait to hear what you have to say about the clothes! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I personally would go with a 2Person ultralight tent, and I probably wouldn't go over 4000 for the pack if I could help it. I'd rather sacrifice money to get ultralight/compact equipment including the bag and tent and I would carry some stuff in my pants and jacket pockets.

Thanks for the detailed analysis. I like hearing what everyone has to say about the equipment they would select, and more importantly have selected and used (and decided to keep using!).

I guess I shouldn't have boxed the criteria so tightly. In all honesty, if I was outfitting myself, I probably would carry equipment for 1-3 days and I would try to spread the load on my body so I wasn't without some gear. I haven't been camping in ages, but I intend to amend that situation soon enough. I would, as you point out, carry a larger tent and split the load among others if not hiking alone.

One thing I'm curious if anyone has found/used, is one of those memory cell foam cushions? They compress to an unbelievable degree without losing their properties. Do they have any of that for camping now (I'm talking about the NASA foam stuff)
_________________________
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards.

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#65670 - 05/16/06 12:23 AM Re: Want a new job as an outfitter?
wildcard163 Offline


Registered: 09/04/05
Posts: 417
Loc: Illinois
Hey, massacre... something to think about... if you're going to be solo hiking, consider a Hennessy Hammock. This isn't an advertisement, I've got nothing to do with the company, other than being a satisfied customer. While they seem a bit pricey, they're WELL worth it. Frenchy can vouch for this too, he and I have discussed them a lot in the past. Your credits say you're in Cent. Il., if you'd like to try to link up and check out an Explorer Deluxe model, PM me, I'm about 90 mi. West of Chicago.

Troy

Oh, their web site is www.hennessyhammock.com, check it out <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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#65671 - 05/17/06 05:20 PM Re: Want a new job as an outfitter?
massacre Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 781
Loc: Central Illinois
Yeah, remember? I'm over by Princeton. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

That sounds good and would certainly be gear I'm interested in. I'm wondering how it is for insulation (though I suppose you could line it with your sleeping bag for nasty weather. Have you used it in the cold? any issues with wind? It looks like the wind/rain screen could be folded down to cover some side-driving rain/wind.. is that your experience with it? And yeah, we should link up some time.
_________________________
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards.

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#65672 - 05/17/06 10:47 PM Re: Want a new job as an outfitter?
wildcard163 Offline


Registered: 09/04/05
Posts: 417
Loc: Illinois
I'm currently on a picket line in Hennepin... 7-3, M-F, on power plant road... stop on by, and I'll set it up, or, if that's not doable, maybe we can work out a Saturday afternoon at Starved Rock... let me know.

Troy

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