In the spirit of provoking thought, I propose another informal contest...<br><br>This one as follows....<br><br>After a long day hunting/ fishing/ bird watching/ what have you.... you find yourself under the following conditions:<br><br>1. Utterly lost and at least several miles from your vehicle<br>2. Waay out of cell phone range<br>3. Broken/ lost GPS<br>4. Inadequate map<br>5. Approximately 2 hours before sunset<br><br>The weather conditions are mild, but temperatures could dip to near freezing overnight and the weather is generably unpredictable with scattered showers the norm. You have decided to stay the night where you are. You have selected an "ideal" campsite near clear water. Your location is remote and your family only has a general idea where you are and wouldn't miss you for at least 48 hours since you are notorious for overstaying your plans.<br> You are reasonably dressed for the daytime conditions and you are armed with the following:<br>.22 rifle, binoculars, flyrod... i.e. gear to match your activity.<br>Water bottle or canteen<br>Two "energy bars"<br>FANNY PACK OF GEAR.<br><br><br>I left out particulars of location, campsite and clothing so you can match them to what is typical to your surrondings.<br><br>The contents of your fanny pack could fit into a coffee can with the lid on, but a coffee can itself would be too large to fit in your pack <br><br>Question: What is in your fanny pack?<br>(Caveat: No sat. phone, EPIRB, spare GPS or map!)<br>

Not that it makes a huge difference, but give us a climate range of some sort. Latitude, elevation, season - something like that. I don't use a fanny pack myself - minimum day pack instead - but it's a fair exercise as you lay it out.<br><br>Sounds like fun, actually... turn up the heat on the next one - this one is too easy <grin>.<br><br>Awaiting your constraints...<br><br>Tom

Andy,<br><br>I agree with Tom. Too easy. I carry a Fieldline fanny pack stuffed with "emergency" gear and a Safewater bottle while hunting and fishing. I always dress for the worst predicted weather when in the woods. Water is abundant (especially lately) in my neck of the woods. Short of a freak tornado, a June blizzard, or similar unlikey event, I can conceive of no difficulties being lost for 48 hours. I also agree with Tom that it might be a blessing in disguise:)<br><br>Take care,<br><br>Andy

I certainly understand your point, and I agree in many respects. I was looking more for what would the items be that YOU would carry based on your location. It would be easy to play this academic game down to the point of entering the woods nude because, theoretically, you could build shelter, fire- make clothing, purify water, etc, etc from nothing man made. The point of this is to create a database, if you will, of different individual's preferences for tools used to accomplish various tasks based on location, activity and personal preference and experience.<br>I made the size constraint what it is because it is a small universal size that most can relate to. <br>There is no winners, just an opportunity to jog each others noggins.<br>

Interesting! IIRC, I actually carried out this exercise several times in my youth, well before the advent of either cell phones or GPS, and yes, the maps were fairly inadequate, at least compared to what is available now. Be sure you have a tarp, a small pot, and the ability to light and sustain a fire.

Ah! I forgot about your database suggestion! I'm glad you're jogging on that again.<br><br>I was (am) still interested in what others have to say because somebody is going to think of / use something I have not, and maybe it would improve my kit.<br><br><<...down to the point of entering the woods nude because, theoretically, you could build shelter, fire- make clothing, purify water, etc, etc from nothing man made>><br><br>Nope, not me, nu-uh. Maybe I would make it - depending on climate - but my known skill set does not include being "stripped down" that far. You must be thinking of folks like Chris or Hikerdon... I'm not that knowledgable/skilled.<br><br>Nothing unusual in what I carry. I dress for the season (not simply the forecast). Strewn about my pockets and person are basic tools like sharps, ignition sources, illumination, etc. My EDC stays about the same all the time, except I add a Wave on the belt, a Silva Whistle/button compass/thermometer/magnifying glass on a lanyard, a match safe, a white Photon II on a break-away lanyard, and maybe one or two other items depending on my mood. Oddly enough, I rarely carry a notepad EDC any more (Palm instead), but whenever I go "out", I add a small Rites-in-the-Rain notepad and a small "space pen" and cut-down pencil (leave the Monte Blanc at home) - even tho I still take my Palm. Guess I don't fully trust the Palm on an instinctive level. Oh - I add a sealed Altoids tin based PSK to one pocket lately, but I consider that a real dire case back-up kit. <br><br>I don't need to check my pockets to know that my EDC ALWAYS includes a very sharp 3 blade Old Timer, SAK, butane lighter, Hot Spark & very small MeyerCo lockback clipped together, turquoise Photon II, Leatherman Micra, red Photon II, a couple of mashed-down Spark-Lite tinders (wallet), Palm Pilot, and a couple of lengths of brightly colored nylon mason's line. My eyeglasses, randomly worn but always on my person, are UV blockers, anti-scratch coated, and impact-rated - as are my sunglasses, which I MIGHT have on a given outing (or not) in an Eagle Creek carrier dangling on me or in a pocket. Clean handkerchief (I should switch to a bandanna for EDC), wallet, keys, etc - normal pocket junque for an urban worker. Always a belt; depending on the trousers, suspenders as well (belt then is for holding things like the Wave - I'm not paranoid about keeping the trou up!)<br><br>My canteen is a US GI 1 quart with cup and cover and a bottle of iodine tabs. In winter/freezing conditions I substitute a Lexan 1 quart bottle (Nalgene brand) with a nesting cup in a home-made insulated bottle carrier (no iodine tabs) - I like the wide mouth, like the way it fits in packs, but don't like the form factor carried in an accessible location. The Nalgene bottle is carried slung cross-shoulder under my outer garment to keep it from freezing. Canteen shape is better for me most of the time. Both include a clean handkerchief between the cup and the bottle/canteen - strains big cooties, wipes out the cup, keeps things from rattling (although the canteen is fine in that regard as-is), etc.<br><br>I'll accept the food you mentioned - I will not starve - but that would be snack food for me - I carry about 3,600 calories emergency food normally; snacks/lunch is additional. There is also a "comfort ziplock" with 4 packages of "MRE" toilet paper, tea and coffee, sugar, salt, pepper, boulion cubes and other odds and ends - assume I have that with me; it's small. I'll leave the 4 oz Nalgene bottle of instant coffee behind this time <sniff>.<br><br>Unless specifically hunting with a long-gun, I usually carry a pistol instead (except not around here in Illinois, ahem...). If I do not have a long-arm with me, I carry/use a stave (hiking staff) of seasoned white oak - a little over my head in height.<br><br>I carry a poncho liner, minimum. In that goes. Disposable reflective blanket (they're cheap and I have lots - actually, I usually carry 2, but I'll cut down for the fanny pack). I normally carry a tarp (minimum is a rip-stop GI poncho, but my daypack usually has better than that) - let's call it for the GI poncho, since space is at a premium. Two 3 mil 55 gallon (black) trash bags, tightly rolled, stuffed into a USPS tyvek envelope, rolled, and wrapped with about 50 feet of brightly colored nylon mason's twine.<br><br>I usually carry a tightly rolled tyvek jumpsuit (big enough to go over all but winter clothes) ditto in a USPS tyvek envelope, but it will stay home this time.<br><br>1 Pair of heavy socks (wool - synthetic blend) in a ziplock. I pair leather gloves - either deerskin if not winter or cowhide (?) thinsulate if wintery - these are chore gloves, not what I apt to be wearing while trudging.<br><br>My personal 1st Aid kit, which is in a small plastic fly box doubly secured with "ranger bands", which also clench two current-issue compressed field dressings to the outside of the box. My repair kit goes everywhere with me, but it is not going to fit in the fanny pack, so I'll rely on the stuff in my PSK if I absolutely must make some minor repairs. (Mine includes a miniature awl/blade holder I machined up from an xacto clone #2 knife handle).<br><br>I'm guessing that this probably fills up the fanny pack, but I absolutely will have a sit-pad with me, period, because I ALWAYS carry one. Big time habit; I've even simply carried it stuck in my waistband (kidney side). Oh, I could throw in my Grohman-type fixed blade knife - it's what I toss in normally anyway, and I never carry that one on my belt. (I'll for sure leave an SRK at home this time). If I am small game hunting or fishing, I'll have a Gerber bird-and trout (don't think they make it anymore) instead of the Grohman. The Gerber is NOT suitable for splitting wood; the Grohman is. Assume worst case - the Gerber.<br><br>Oh - I always have a clutch of cord about my person when I go out. 12 foot lengths of dacron cord about 1/4" diameter or thereabouts - I know, I know, "it should be paracord" - I'm being honest. I carry paracord in my daypack, but this fanny pack thing is tiny to me. I'll have at least 4 pieces of 12' long dacron cord with me; that's for sure. It probably will be in a pocket because that's where it's handy for me. It's what I use for utility cord routinely, it's always with me in the woods. I'm feeling a little paranoid without more than the 4 hanks I keep in my pockets, but it will pass... There's some paracord wrapped around the PSK - there! I DO have some of that with me (whew! maybe they won't toss me out of the forum...).<br><br>Even around here I carry an Esbit stove and a basic load of tabs, but I'll drop that out of the fanny pack. If I'm in more hazardous surroundings, I carry a Peak I (no extra fuel for day trips), but that's not gonna fit by a mile. I will, however, leave at least one of the three trioxane bars in the fanny pack - that is my "Aw, shucks!" firestarter.<br><br>As I wrote earlier, I feel confined with the fanny pack, but that's all I think I could fit from my habitual carry into that space. I have made expedient camp many times over the years and can't recall ever being extremely miserable doing so... there were two times years ago that I screwed up big time and was NOT fully prepared. Grizzly bear bits broiled over a tiny coal fire are extremely tasty, actually (above tree line, indiginous coal, retreat to tree line was not a viable option). The other time darned near killed me...but hey, I lived. No animals were hurt during the making of this... Point is, although I'm slow (took me two times), I learned a long time ago to not leave camp unprepared to stay away from it for a few days, so I don't. Not even here in tame old Illinois...<br><br>That's my story and I'm sticking to it... now let's here what the more organized minds here would carry - some of you guys like fanny packs and probably have figured out how to stuff a small base camp in one <grin>. I am looking forward to reading these...<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom<br><br>

tom, <br>this anti scrach coating on your glasses, how afective is it? <br>my glasses are geting scrached all the time and I get really pissed off with it. did it cost a lot? <br><impact rated> whats that? sounds like it might be good idea mine have taken some knocks and it would be nice to know there not going to fall apart at the worst time, a carry a small srewdirver for them allways. But they could get well beyond a lose screw. <br>-james

James,<br><br>The coating is extremely effective - used to scuff up lenses regularly; no scratches on these, period. Don't remember the cost - maybe $20 extra? A lot cheaper than new lenses...<br><br>The lenses pass an ANSI test - think safety glasses. Not technically safety glasses because there are no side shields, but it's better than not rated. Will not keep things together any better if dropped, however.<br><br>Tom

I have a fanny packed that stays in the glove box of my vehicle. I pull it out and wear when the family goes to outdoor festivals, theme parks, picnics, etc. Its contents are listed first.<br><br>Qty Description<br>1 Pack, waist, main compartment with outside pocket, 4"x6"x9", black<br>1 Lighter, disposable butane, yellow<br>1 Match holder, orange plastic w/ matches, wrapped w/ 10' of gray duct tape<br>3 Antibiotic cream, 1/32 oz. single use packet, expire 10/2002<br>2 Antiseptic swab<br>3 Bandage, large patch, 2" x 3", beige<br>5 Bandage, strips, 7/8" x 3", beige<br>6 Bandage, three fingertip & three knuckle, beige<br>4 Cotton swabs, white<br>4 Gauze, pad, sterile, two 2"x2" & two 4"x4", white<br>1 Gauze, roll, sterile, 3" x 2 yds., white<br>1 Gloves, latex, non-powdered, large, pair, beige<br>3 Hydrocortisone cream, 1/32 oz. single use packet, expire 2/2002<br>24 Ibuprofen tablets, red Tylenol tube, expire 2/00<br>6 Imodium-Ad, tablets, expire 8/2002<br>2 Isopropyl Alcohol swab<br>12 Pepto Bismal tablets, chewable, 2 per 1/2 hour, pink expire 12/00<br>1 Tape, bandage, ~3 ft, white<br>2 Towelettes, antibacterial, white<br>1 Bandanna, cotton, in resealable plastic bag, blue<br>1 Hand Lotion, "Lubriderm", 1oz. bottle, white<br>1 Lip Balm, "Chap-et", blue<br>1 Sunscreen, SPF 40, in small squeeze tube, grey & black<br>3 Bag, garbage, 2 kitchen (white), 1 lawn size (black) in resealable bags<br>1 Blanket, space, 52"x 84", chrome colored<br>2 Batteries, AAA-cell, alkaline<br>1 Flashlight, key ring size "Mag-Lite AAA" on waist pack zipper pull, black<br>1 Light stick, "Snaplight", 12 hr. green, expire 6/2003<br>1 Money, 10 quarters, 5 $1, 3 $5, 2 $10, 8 $20, 1 blank check<br>1 Note pad, "Post-It" with white pencil, 3" x 5", in ziplock bag, yellow<br>1 Pen, black ink, black pen with black top<br>1 Pen, permanent marking, "Sharpie", white pen with black top<br>1 Whistle, plastic "Fox40" with split ring on waist pack zipper pull, yellow<br>1 Compass, liquid filled button, thermometer & wind chill chart, zipper pull<br>1 Fishing Kit: 4 hooks, ~50' 15 lb. line, 1 bobber w/ weight, 2 snap swivels<br>1 Foil, aluminum, 12" x 72"<br>1 Knife, Swiss army style pocket, with black wrist lanyard, red<br>1 Leatherman, multi function tool, "PST", stainless steel<br>3 Needle, large eye, steel, chrome plated (stored in match holder)<br>1 Rope, 1/8" x 50 ft. "550 Paracord", 550 lbs. breaking strength, o.d. green<br>15 Safety pins, three sizes, chrome<br>3 Condom, un-lubricated, red foil packet in red box<br>1 Purification tablets, "Potable Aqua" brown jar, 50 cnt, expire 7/02 if unopened<br><br>I have a second set of fanny packs. They are designed to be worn around the neighborhood in the event of large scale disaster and/or as a supplement to BOBs. Their contents were choosen for low cost, disposability, and only to support a person 6-12 hours with resupply available. I have 4 of these, all identical stored in a Rubbermaid tub along with 4 tyvek suits, 4 hardhats, 2 pair of women's gloves, and 4 pair of kids gloves. I plan on replacing the adult gloves with the correct size gloves when issuing to the family. <br><br> I keep a case of bottled water on top of the tub. They are more designed for suburban/urban environments rather than wilderness. Even so, they contain enough supplies to spend the night out if forced. <br><br>2 Bag, garbage, 1 kitchen, 1 lawn size in resealable bag, black & white<br>2 Bandage, one fingertip & one knuckle<br>5 Bandage, strips, 1" x 3"<br>1 Bandanna, cotton, red<br>1 Batteries, AA-cell, 4 pack, alkaline, expire Jan. 2002<br>1 Blanket, space, (actually a bag), Mylar, silver<br>1 Candle, small "tea" in metal tub, white<br>1 Crayon, lumber, yellow<br>1 Fishing Kit: 4 hooks, ~30 ft 15lb. line, weighted bobber, swivels<br>1 Flashlight, 2 AA-cell, hand held & head mount, yellow w/ black head strap<br>3 Gauze, pad, sterile, one 2"x2" & two 4"x4"<br>1 Glasses, safety, with yellow & black frames<br>1 Gloves, men’s large, dbl. leather palm, canvass back, short cuff, orange<br>1 Knife, retractable, break-off utility razor, orange<br>1 Light stick, 12 hr. Green, expire 6/2003<br>1 Lighter, disposable butane, orange<br>1 Lip Balm, "Chapstick", black<br>1 Mask, dust, white<br>1 Match holder, w/ matches, waterproof, w/ 10 ft. of electrical tape, orange<br>1 Money, 4 quarters<br>3 Needle, sewing, large eye, stored in match holder<br>1 Note pad, spiral bound with golf pencil, 3" x 5", red or blue<br>1 Pack, waist with 21 oz. water bottle, green <br>1 Pen, black ink, white pen with black top<br>1 Pen, marking, permanent "Sharpie", black<br>1 Pencil, grease, black<br>1 Pencil, lead carpenter, sharpened, yellow<br>1 Poncho, disposable, orange<br>1 Rope, 1/8" x 50 ft. braided nylon, 240 lbs. breaking strength, orange<br>10 Safety pins, two sizes, chrome<br>1 Shower curtain ring, metal, chrome finish<br>1 Tape, duct, 2" x 4 yards, gray<br>1 Tissue, facial, personal size, 15 pack, (outer pocket) white & blue <br>1 Toilet paper, camping rolls, (outer pocket) white <br>2 Towelettes, Pre-moistened, white<br>1 Vest, safety, orange with yellow/green reflective stripes<br>1 Whistle, plastic with neck lanyard, orange<br> <br>4 Coveralls, polypropylene, 2 Large, 2 XL, white<br>4 Hat, hard, yellow with reflective orange stripes<br><br>Oops, it looks like I need to replace the batteries and meds it the kits.<br><br><br>

Since you mentioned coffee can...<br><br>I created some kits that I gave away last Christmas to family friends. They were designed to be left in the trunk of a car to be used by non-survival oriented people with no prior experience or interest in preparation. I tried to keep the cost to $25 but it crept up to about $40 per kit. This all fits in a standard 1 gallon paint can. They are better choices for some of the supplies but they cost more and I was trying to keep cost to a minimum and still provide a general use car kit.<br><br>Qty Description<br>1 Bag, trash, lawn size, black<br>1 Band-Aids & Gauze, assorted, in Ziplock<br>1 Bandanna, with First Aid Instructions, white with red trim<br>2 Battery, D-cell, alkaline, black & copper<br>1 Blanket, space, Mylar, silver<br>1 Can, paint, gallon, with metal bale, polished metal<br>3 Candle, Tea, white<br>12 Diaper Wipes, white resealable package<br>1 Flashlight, 2 D-cell, yellow<br>1 Glove, leather, pair<br>1 Knife, imitation Swiss Army Knife, red<br>1 Light Stick, chemical<br>1 Lighter, disposable butane, mini, clear with orange trim<br>1 Listing, contents<br>1 Matches, paperback pack<br>1 Notepad, spiral, 3"x5", blue<br>1 Pen, ballpoint, black<br>1 Pen, permanent marker, "Sharpie", fine line, black<br>1 Pencil, No. 2 with eraser, yellow<br>2 Penny, taped to outside, copper<br>1 Pliers, 8", padded grips<br>1 Poncho, disposable, orange/yellow<br>1 Rope, 1/8" x 48', braided nylon, white<br>12 Safety Pins, 10 medium, 2 large<br>2 Screwdriver, one Phillips, one slotted<br>1 Tape, Duct, ~6', gray<br>1 Whistle, plastic, with lanyard<br>1 Wire, 14 gauge, 10', stranded, red insulation<br>2 Ziplock, 1.5 gallon, clear<br>

nm

It seems like twenty dollars is the going rate for the scratch coatings. As far as effectiveness most of the eyeglass companies will warranty a scratched lens for six months to a year with free replacement. When you get the impact resistant lenses ALWAYS get scratch coatings because the lenses are softer than the standard lenses and will scratch easier. <br><br>If you are looking for frames that seem to hold up better than average go with the titanium nickel alloys. These are the ones that can be wadded up into a ball and spring back into shape just as soon as you let them go. Just don't go showing this to all of your friends, you can still break them if stressed to much. Very light weight but a bit more expensive than standard wire frames.

Andy,<br><br>Ok, I found my bag. Let see what's in it.<br><br>--2 Large trash bags. Soon to be upgraded to the 6 mil orange ones that Barry sells.<br>--2 Bic lighters with the @$% childproofing widgets removed.<br>--1 Match safe w/ compass, full of strike anywhere matches.<br>--1 Gerber Strikeforce firestarting widget with 4 tindercubes<br>--1 Leatherman Supertool.<br>--1 smallish first aid kit similar to the one Doug put together for the air race (I can't find those telescoping boxes anywhere!) with two battle dressings that the Army will never miss. A friend of mine was once mistaken for a deer during hunting season--no fun.<br>--1 small plastic box filled with fishing stuff and line.<br>--25ft of paracord<br>--1 Photon II (white)<br>--4 Powerbars. (I carry these because I would never be tempted to eat them except in an emergency).<br>--1 small tube of combination sunscreen/bug repellent.<br>--1 polypro watchcap. Thanks to Tom and others for the idea.<br>--1 pair of gloves. These are leather work gloves, if it's cold outside, I wear warmer ones.<br>--1 Silva compass that has lost all of the fluid. I guess this will get replaced.<br>--1small offbrand signal mirror soon to be replaced with a decent one.<br>--1 whistle (full-size Fox 40)<br>--1 small roll of duct tape<br>--apprx 15 ft of .032 safety wire.<br>--Notebook and pencil, neither are waterproof, hope to upgrade soon.<br><br>The bag has two buddy lock fasteners. I've attached a water bottle pouch to each. One holds a 1/2 liter Safewater bottle (don't ask, I haven't had to use it to filter anything but tap water yet), the other holds a small candle lantern. That's it for the bag.<br><br>As I mentioned in my earlier post, I always dress for the WORST predicted weather expected in the next day or three. Any chance of precipitation and the raingear goes with (usually a poncho that the Navy will never miss). I have a poncho liner that goes during colder months.<br><br>If hunting, I'll have gun, ammo and Spyderco Wegner knife. If fishing, I'll have a pole and a tackle box.<br><br>A quick look at my pockets/belt turns up a SAK (Dad liked my Kershaw DoubleCross knife. It replaced the cheap "promotional item" knife he was carrying), a Leatherman Wave, a Minimag flashlight, a bandana, two keyrings, some change, my wallet (with the usual), a Carmex, a pack of cigarettes (yes, this makes me an idiot), a Zippo lighter, a Bic lighter, a pen, a small notebook, a watch (the strap broke), and a cellphone (oops! nevermind). I'd probably stuff a few other things in the pockets when outdoors.<br><br>Around my neck is a dogtag chain with dogtags (duh), an Innova LED light (red) and a small brass police whistle.<br><br>After reading what Tom carries, I must be missing something. What is it?<br><br><br>Take care,<br><br>Andy<br>

Coghlans (yes I know....) sells a first aid kit that comes in said box. Buy a couple, put the contents in ziplocs and give 'em to office workers. he boxes are neat. catalog number 0002<br><br>Also...<br>Orange bag. 84"x36" 3 mil. #8765<br>Orange tube tent. #8760

Andy,<br><br>Thank you!<br><br>Andy

Is this a proper coffee can of @ 1lb, freetrade organic and CAFFINATED? May I assume no additional items in pockets but lint , stale gum and jury summons? A sheath knife sheathed on my belt? 1 Military poncho and paracord for raingear/shelter 2 Sparklite, metal match, Lifeboat matches 3 whistle and mirror 4 Quality whitelight flashlight 5 photon 2 blue ( I want to save my nightvision if I need to rummage in the dark as opposed to signalling) 6 nuwick candle 7first aid items and my can is full. The canteen is G.I. and has a cup and stove nested in the carrier ( O.K. I cheated)

ADE<br>Sorry to interupt this exersize,but who is Barry<br>and how do I get in contact with him.I need 50 orange<br>bags for a summer youth program I'm conducting at my<br>wife's school (How not to get lost and if you do how to help yourself to be found type deal) The kids are going to each<br>make themselves a fanny pack kit and i've got everything<br>except those blankity-blank blank impossible to find<br>orange trash bags. Any help from anybody would be<br>wonderful. My time for procuring them is running out.<br>Thanks to all<br>JBL

Andy, Perhaps some specifics are neccessary. I live within minutes of the ocean and oak riparian woodlands or hard/soft chaparrel. An hour's drive can put me in desert or snow ( sometimes both!) My gear is very general. I add or subtract as needed, ie a Myerchin boat knife for the water, snow knife for the mountains etc.

I think your comments exactly reflect the purpose of this thread. What does your kit look like and how does it match terrain. For instance, I really don't need a seep straw here in the south east- so it's not in my kit. DEET is most definately in my kit, but not a snow shovel. I would like to see the choices different people make for different conditions.

JBL,<br><br>Barry is the propietor of Blueline Outfitters. He can be found in the reatilers and manufacturers section this site. <br><br>Take care,<br><br>Andy

Tom,<br><br>You mentioned a repair kit. I carry items which could be used for repair (wire, duct tape, leatherman, etc...), but not a specialized repair kit. What is in it, and what do you repair with it? Thanks.<br><br>Andy

Hello all,<br><br><br><br>Hypothetical reactions to AndyO's hypothetical situation.<br><br><br>Regular person: I'm lost in the woods!! I'm going to die!! AAAAAAAAAAA!!<br><br>Halfway intelligent-semi prepared person: I'm lost in the woods!! I'm going to be miserable, but if I forget everything I saw on "Survivor," I MIGHT live.<br><br>ETS forum member: I'm lost in the woods. I need to pull out my PSK and start taking notes so I can post my experiences on the forum when I get back home.<br><br>Tom Ayers: I'm lost in the woods. Darn! I'll just have to take a vacation; maybe start thinking of how to start an industrial society out here...<br><br>Just kidding Tom. Really though, your post got me to thinking...I'm shopping for a daypack. Anyone have one of those cool new Camelbak Rimrunners yet?<br><br>Andy

Im lost. Now what did that acronyn STOP stand for? Well Ill just start a fire anyway and build a shelter out of paracord and these pine trees. Funny, they are all different. I quess I better climb into my orange garbage bag. Gee, I wish I could have crammed a power bar into my Altoid tin :O( It's getting dark, better conserve energy and ..... Sir? Excuse me sir, but the botanical gardens are closing. I saw one and they are nice. the salesman was leery of letting me try it on for fit. Something about having leaflitter,pine pitch and dirt on my clothing :O(

Andy,<br><br>It's nothing fancy or special. I don't have it sitting by me (at work)... it's probably about the same kind of stuff you lug around. The vast majority - all the core stuff plus - fits into one of those zippered nylon pouches made to carry a fat paperback book. The oldest core of that kit is in a metal Band-Aid tin inside the pouch; other items have ben added over the years (you remember the type). I'll try to recall the contents as they exist today:<br><br>Tape: PVC electrical, friction, duct. Some on small squished rolls and some wrapped around the outside of the Band-Aid tin. Used to carry medical tape there, too, but it's been in my 1st Aid Kit for several years.<br><br>Adhesives: hot-melt glue/caulk stick, very small package of 5 minute epoxy (old fashioned "toothpaste tubes" type), chunk of epoxy putty. No CA; I've had trouble with that in my gear in the past. Better container might help, but the shelf life of CA seems to be very short in a pack; too bad.<br><br>Piece of rosin-core solder ("electronics" type)<br><br>Pins and wires for frame-type back-packs.<br><br>Fine ductile steel ("iron") wire - maybe a little finer than trip wire.<br><br>Swatches of canvas & rip-stop (coated)<br><br>small amount of 1" flat nylon webbing (stiff stuff; not tubular)<br><br>Safety pins<br><br>Sewing needles - package of the heavy ones for canvas, leather, carpet, etc. and a small package of "regular" sewing needles.<br><br>Carpet thread and nylon thread (parachute rigger)<br><br>Buttons<br><br>Commercial awl with spare needles<br><br>small skeletonized crescent wrench<br><br>a few nails<br><br>a few misc threaded fasteners - some are ski-mount centric and others are GP, including a couple of aluminum nuts and bolts (easy to cut to length in the field)<br><br>2 single-edge razor blades <br><br>paracord<br><br>polyester cord<br><br>thimble<br><br>T-15 bit<br><br>#1 Phillips bit<br><br>2 allen wrenches<br><br>two small twist drill bits<br><br>eyeglass repair kit in a little container<br><br>needle threader (? it was in there - may have robbed it out, now that I think of it)<br><br>Dental floss, unwaxed<br><br>hunk of bike inner tube (ranger bands in the raw)<br><br>Hmmm - that's all I can recall at the moment.<br><br>Other repair/maintenance items are other places. For example, a field-repair kit for my Therma-Rest is attached to the draw cord on the stuff sack for the Therma Rest.<br><br>Folding diamond sharpener is external to the kit but stowed with it<br><br>Some things are trip-specific. For example, spare X-country ski binding parts come along when that is the means of transportation.<br><br>I'm sure I left things out, but this should give you the general idea. A lot of little things in a reasonable-sized package. Every item in it represents an item that I have actually used for repairs - the kit has evolved over the years. It moves from pack to pack, just like my 1st Aid kit. Simpler for me than keeping multiple kits in multiple places.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom<br><br>

Camelbak products are great in my opinion. I personally use the M.U.L.E at least 3 times a week while biking. I also have a RimRunner, which i haven't really used at all.<br><br>Reason: As with more camelbak's, there is a belt strap, on the MULE its optional(ie. can be removed) this isn't the case on the RimRunner, they are sewn in. The pack really isn't big enough to warrant that extra strap.<br><br>Also with the camelbak h20 volume is important.<br>The RimRunner is only 70oz. while the MULE is 100oz. That might be a personal preference issue, but for the money I would rather just go with a 100oz "Unbottle" and strap or throw that in a regular pack(Like a backpack).<br>The Peakbagger looks like a great pack for just getting out, holding your gear and enough fluids. Infact a friend is currently biking up the eastern seaboard with nothing more than a Peakbagger and his bike.<br><br>-David

Andy,<br><br>ROFL - not true, but funny anyway.<br><br>I think the Camelbak Rim Runner looks pretty nifty, but I don't know anyone who owns that model. The other Camelbaks I've seen are well-liked by the owners. My boys all use Platypus units and like them very much, but they are not a pack-substitute - rolled up jacket is about all that can be added to the model they have.<br><br>Tom

Tom,<br><br>Thanks. As always, you have provided new ideas. The cutting to length aluminum nuts and bolts is great. Why didn't I think of that? It would have saved me a lot of trouble and an expensive knife blade two years ago. The acronyms are getting me again, what is CA? I'm sure I'll smack myself in the forehead when you tell me.<br><br><br>Thanks again,<br><br>Andy

Andy - sorry: cyanoacrylate (CA) glue, aka "super glue"<br><br>Tom

It would be really nice if Doug would create an Acronyms page, where people could add their nifty little shortcuts.

That would be super duper!