Hang in there Pete, age and treachery beat youth and enthusiasm more often than not <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Troy

Well today I feel my age <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />, although I am pleased with my performance in general <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. We had one of first major rescues of the season. A hiker fell 40+ feet up at Maryland Heights near Harper?s Ferry (for those of you who know the area) down a ravine. We hiked just under a mile to get to the rescue scene. Keep in mind I am overweight <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />, out-of-shape <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> and one of the oldest members of the team <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />. Two of our members who are career Fire Fighters and in relatively good shape did make it up at least 10 min.+ ahead of me, but I was able to pass and make it up at least 10min+ ahead of our other members <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, of which several are half my age <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />. Not to bad for this old body. I definitely felt it in my knees coming down out of the mountain <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />. I am somewhat sore today, but not as bad as I envisioned <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

Pete

Hey, is that the last game in town ?! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I'm 52 and 20 days .... But I guess I'm not the older one on this forum, nor the wiser...

End of may, I will follow my first outdoors' stage .... never too late to learn something....
(well... I hope so.. ) <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Back to the previous subject :
as a non-english reader, Jim's post did not seem that much "aggressive" (except, maybe, the bit about the noise and the chrome <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ). I took it as a genuine question about why that type of helmet. In France too, the firemen helmet is different from the one used in the States (they changed to the new style about only 15 - or maybe a bit more - years ago and I guess not all firemen have the same style yet).
And being totally ignorant about the way to fight a fire (knowing the differences between A, B and C classes of fire and which extinguisher to use accordingly, doesn't make me an expert)), Jim's use of expressions like "offensive" or "defensive" methods, were, to me, more like technical terms than a jugement of right or wrong technics.....
And thanks to some answers, I now understand (a little bit..) better the why of various fire fighting technics and various helmet styles.

I'll stay out of the hat discussion 8^)

You shouldn't starve in 7 days, but decent food will help keep you happy and functioning well.

I didn't see any cooking pots , cups, utensils .
aluminum foil?
salt & pepper?

I suggest you practice (hunting) cooking, eating out of your kit while your feet are dry. Since this is a group endeavor you should ask your fellow firemen what they like.

A bag of hardcandy ( hopjes ?) takes little room and may lift the spirits of hungry, soggy firemen waiting for you to catch some game.

Perhaps the European equivalent of the #10 cans from here:
MountainHouse

Olive oil is high in calories and can be added to camp food to help increase calories.

Lee

That is certainly a fair question and one I will answer only from my perspective and limited knowledge and experience. I admit I have never worn one of what I will call the European style FF helmets. Locally, we jokingly refer to it as a Fighter Pilot Helmet.

Defense firefighting tactics generally refer to fighting the fire from outside the structure, where large hose sizes can be utilized. Frequently used to protect surrounding structures or in large structures where there is major fire involvement. Locally the use of deck or deluge guns/nozzles are commonly employed in barn fires, they are generally loaded with hay and burn quickly and very hot. Preventing spread to adjacent structures is of major concern as the barn itself is often too far-gone to save. What is the significance for the style of helmet that can be worn while fighting an exterior fire? Water is generally not pouring down on your head and hence not down the back of your coat. Also, the chances of structural elements falling on you are minimal, so protection of the neck is not as critical.

Offensive firefighting tactics require an interior attack to isolate and extinguish the fire from other parts of the structure. Search and rescue of potential victims requires an interior attack. Frequently water from above floors or roof will flood through the ceiling, which will run down into your coat unless diverted by the large flange protruding from the rear of the helmet. This same flange also provides protection to the neck from falling debris.

And as already stated - tradition. The Fire Service in the US has incredible traditions, and like in many other arenas, some good some bad. It is just the way it is, change takes time.

I am sure other FFs can add their experiences and opinions, but I hope this answers some of your questions.

Pete

Frenchy and Paramedicpete, thanks for your answers, and for understanding my questions!

Pete,
Good explinations. I'll add two things to what you said.

Defensive firefighting typically means you are writing off the structure. We have a saying in the US; "when tha ladder pipes go up, buildings come down". It is safer for the firefighters, and who wants to risk their life for a structure that is likely lost anyway. However you can't find and rescue a victim if your outside.

While offensive firefighting doesn't always = a saved structure it does allow search and rescue to be performed and belongings to be saved. Many times saving a few photo albums, heirlooms and personel papers is much more important to a person than a house or apartment.

We have a risk managment profile to use when making this decision:

• We will risk our lives alot in a calculated maner to save SAVABLE LIVES
• We will risk our lives a little in a caculated maner to save SAVABLE PROPERTY
• We will not risk our lives at all for what is ALREADY LOST

No one wants to make a parking lot, but everyone whats to go home tomarrow.

Since the initial post, I had a friend bring down a few of the helmets that his company tested. He brought three "European" style helmets and I stand by my former statement. I can see the merit of these helmets in a non-fire, rescue senerio they just don't offer thelevel of protection our style of firefighting requires. I plan on bringing them to the academy in the next few weeks to see how they do in heat.

The Fire Service has our traditions, as many have said, some good, some bad but I believe mostly good. Many of our self destructive traditions are going by the way of pullup boots, demand SCBAs (thank good... those really sucked) and wool coats treated with carbon tetrachloride(luckily way before my time). My "Traditional" Helmet today is half the weight my "New Yorker" that is hanging on my wall. Useless facesheilds that easily melt have been replaced by Googles and Boorke Eyesheilds that withstand 1200 deg, My helmet may look old, but it is state of the art protection.

But... I will stand by the traditions of honor, duty and sacrifice that the fire service world wide has held since the Romans formed the first fire brigades!

And the following traditions should also be followed without questions:

• [color:"red"] FIRE TRUCKS ARE RED [/color] ... the only exception to this rule is the forest service (because they don't know any better) and the Jack Daniels Distilery (becuase their Black and Gold engines are way cool).
• [color:"red"] ALL FIRE TRUCKS SHOULD HAVE A WIND-UP SIREN! [/color] Call them what you like "Q", "Federal Q", GRINDER but you know the way a fire truck is supposed to sould like, not these watered down ambulance or police car sirens. Sure they are loud, and annoying... but not as annoying as getting T-boned by a 50,000lbs Engine! People don't pull out in front of use as much anymore since we got our Wind-up... even the idiots talking on their cell phones, while drinking coffee and using their PDA see us now... amazing!
• [color:"red"] FIRE HELMETS SHOULD BE BLACK! [/color] At least for firefighters, Cheifs need their white ones so they can be seen coming and avoided. Company Officers probably should have their own color too... so everyone can keep an eye on them, you never know where they'll wonder to. But Fire Helmets should be BLACK!

Sorry our fire trucks (engines, tower, etc.) are green and white <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. The Independent Hose Co.#1 is the oldest continually operating Vol. Fire Company in the State of Maryland EST. 1818 <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />. So unless you guys go back further than that - green and white counts <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. FYI: In the county we also have blue and white <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />, slime yellow/lime, orange <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />and of course red <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />.

My fire helmet is yellow <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
I have two rescue helemts: 1 slime lime, the other white

Pete <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My department was founded in 1975... but I have worked for two departments on the east coast one founded in 1788 and the other 1834... both had red trucks <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Green and White sounds like a park ranger's truck <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Oh, and a slime green rescue helmet... ICK <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I'll have to disgree with two things.

First, sirens:
I don't know what euro sirens you've heard, but our are two-tone air horns, putting out 144 dB at 5 meters. Enough to cause hearing damage within seconds even on someone wearing plugs. Which is why we have a little toggle switch for the 100dB mode, which we only really use in residential areas at night.

The other one is about helmets:
I prefer slime lime (glow-in-the-dark optional) to black, at least when issued. The color of a man's helmet darkens in direct proportion to the time he was on the force, with rookies almost too blinding to look at, and old hands black/stainless steel from the soot and the scratches. REAL firemen's helmets _should_ be black :P

As for the helmets: With nearly all (>95%) of all structures we go offensive on (so no barns, shend etc.), the cielings are rebarred concrete. You don't get water leakage or significant debris before the building actually collapses, so protection from that is not _that_ important over here.