Hey, Alex here.

Recently, the second "flood of the century" in four years hit the River Elbe over here in Germany. Our fire department was there with two engines, and, like four years ago, a dam broke and we were cut off. Last time was four, this time two days.

When you have a day's normal intake of food (2500 calories) with you, and you have to divide it up between nine people burning 15000 calories per day, it's really no fun at all. Since this happened the second time, me and a few other "survival-conscious" types in the company have convinced the chief that we should be able to operate independently for at least a week in disaster scenarios.

The package must meet the following conditions:
-Size no larger than 3 by 1.2 by .4 meters (our roof box)
-Weight no greater than 560 kilos
-Must not contain water (the engine's tank holds 625 gallons)
-Must _independantly_ support nine people for three days, at 15000 calories a day
-Must support said people for up to seven days on reduced rations and/or if supplemented by hunting/gathering

What we've thought out (excluding food items):
Shelter department:
-three 4-man tents, the lightweight fiberglass/nylon type. 11kg
-ten 3-5 meter tarps, heavy-duty. 11kg
-Poles, aluminium. 20 poles, 1.5 meters long. 15kg
-250 sandbags, burlap, 10kg fill weight. 5Kg
-9 Army Issue sleebing bags. 12kg.
-9 Army Issue folding cots. 20kg.

Cooking department:
-Two two-burner diesel stoves (the wick kind). 1.6 kilos (50 gallons of fuel in tank of fire engine)
-one case Esbit solid fuel tablets (20 packs, 10 tablets each). 1.1kg
-625 gallons of water in tank of fire engine. (weight not a factor)
-Water purification tablets, German Army kind, 2000 pcs (for 500 gallons). .4kg

Tool department:
-One 600-pcs fireman's toolbox. (weight not a factor)
-Personal Multitools. (weight not a factor)
-Two heavy-duty knives. (point me to some good ones) 1kg
-Five rolls of duct tape. 2.5kg
-500 meters of 250kg-tested paracord: Weight? Good question. Will guess 5kg.
-200 meters braided nylon rope

Sundries department:
-One complete EMT/Medic kit. 26kg
-Two fishing rods, medium size/strength and assorted tackle. 4Kg
-Sewing kit. .1kg

Light department:
-10 high-intensity magnesium hand flares. (weight not a factor)
-10 standard-issue LED flashlights, plus spare batteries. 2kg.
-Various 4- and 2-metre radio equipment (weight not a factor)

Now the questions:
-Would hunting for supplementary food be worth the trouble of bringing a crossbow along? Legal issues prevent us from bringing a firearm, and we do have two accomplished crossbowmen.
-Specifically, what types of food would you suggest if weight was not that much a factos as it is in personal kits?
-What did I forget?

-Alex

well have you though of the possibility you engine get caught in the flood aswell?

I don't see ant hygine stuff. Keeping your self clean is very importent to prevent illness.



well i don't think threathining people with a crossbow would be very legal. Your proberbly beter of just asking, people are more likely to give fireman fuel than other kinds of people.

no sleeping pads, cots don't insulate. Although they do keep you off the cold ground.

I don't know how you acces you watertank, but it would be very handy to have water containers to temperaly store water to purify and make using the water much handier. Think of buckets, bottles and cups.

Um, yeah... I meant hunting for supplementary _food_. My bad.

About the engine getting caught in the flood: We usually make a point of putting it on the highest ground possible, and anything less than three and a half meters of water leaves our stuff intact. But I'll think about it.

What's the contents of the medical kit?
(just want to know)

Also, nine people over two engines?
I thought that one Germans engine-crew where 6 people?
Is your other engine a rescue- truck ( ladder or rescue) with 3 people.

At least that's the Dutch standard

The contents of the medical kit is everything from hard opiates (read: morphine) to a full field surgery kit. We call it a "hospital-in-a-box". You need a qualified EMT, or better yet a trauma surgeon, to really use it properly.

Nine people is the crew for one engine. We'll be having two kits, one per engine. There are specialist vehicles (tech car, tanker truck, ladder truck) with a crew of three, and very very rare versions of said vehicles with an extended cabin for six people.

Can you access the water in the tank, without the aid of the onboard pump? Wouldn't do much good if there is not a manual way to extract water. Even if it had a drain on the tank, 625 gallons kind of exerts alot of pressure, and I doubt you could put the plug back! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As for "food", I have seen "high energy" bars, that are like 5000 calories or something. Those might be a good back up. Having real food would be better. If I remember correctly, I think you need more carbs, than protein, in a "survival" environment. So, since you have water, rice, or pasta's may not be a bad choice. Light and easy to store. For protein, you might try dried beans. (Thanks Alton Brown of Good Eats! on Food Network)

I don't know if expending the energy to hunt, kill, skin and cook animals would be worth it, assuming you have a 7 day food ration kit. Bringing something along to protect yourself from any animal that seeks the same high land your on might be good. These animals I would think would be hungry too, and you've got food!

I have a couple of questions:

- When you are "cut off", are you:
- At the station?
- On high ground?
- In survival mode, with not expectations of performing firefighting? (No? Toss the hoses off the truck and use that area for storage!)
- What is the weather like?
- Can you not store more supplies in the cab of the engine?

We can't really access the water in the tank, but we have a workaround, which is a 4" hose end cap with a normal faucet brazed on that we stick on the drain valve. Works perfectly.

Cut off in our case means that we are somehow
a) out of the supply chain and
b) not able to go someplece that is still getting deliveries.

An example would be what happened last month: A dam broke, and the only acccess road to where we were flooded five feet deep. We were on high ground, the water didn't touch us. As we were in a village with people left, we were still working our rear ends off till we ran out of sandbags.

Weather can be anything, though usually no snow or hail. We've seen blazing sunshine and 100°F, and ten degrees above freezing with driving rain.

About energy expediture for hunting: With the levee setups here at the Elbe, huge tracts of (mainly empty) land are flooded intentionally to relieve pressure on important levees downstream. This should confuse and drive together the animal population, so actually finding them is no problem. We had bewildered rabbits running around our feet in 2002. If we have the room and weight for a 7-day kit, it's fine. If it turns out we haven't, it's probably time to go hunting.

Storing supplies in the cab of the engine could be possible, but that space is pretty much reserved for personal items such as clothes and the bassmachine (music is still the best motivator when sandbagging)

Is anyone on the engine a EMT? I thought that in Germany, similair to Holland, the Ambulances and Fire-Departement were seperate?

(Fire-fighters in Holland only get a basic first-aid course. Well, I'm 16 and I know more than that!)

If you have 9 people in a engine, wich men has wich task?

In Holland there are 6 people:

In a fire:
Commander
Driver/pump operator
1+2: attack/rescue/recon-team
3+4: Water-supply team.

In a MVA/ other rescue:

Commander
driver/ hydraulic motor
1+2 :extraction team/ tools
3: safety-guy : warning signs/ remove sharp objects, etc
4: First-aid man: giving first-aid, assisting paramedics

In Holland, we fight small fires with/ without casualties in a offensive way. If there's a big fire and no victims, we use defensive techniques. (you guy's in America tend to go in with all th people of the ladder compagnie and use primarely offensive methodes.)

Also, US techniques tend to be more offensive than in Holland.
You, for example break open walls and ceilings to check for fire.
We use heat-camera's and only break what we have to.

The normal responds to a fire is a engine and ladder-compagnie (who carry only a ladder and 3 man team)
Ladder-truck: http://www.kazernemijnsherenlaan.nl/voertuigfotos/ladderwagen.jpg

engine with a 2000 ltr water tank:
http://www.brandweerspijkenisse.nl/images/Voertuigen/TS%2065-2.jpg

For a accident or HazMat a engine and a rescue truck
Rescue truck: (mva's)

http://www.brandweerkampen.net/images/materieel/67026.jpg

Ambulance:

http://members.lycos.nl/alwinw/Ambulance.JPG

A single American engine makes more sound (siren's) than a whole platoon in Holland! (and has more chrome)

BTW: why do American fire-fighters have such helmets? We use some that are probably more protective. They have a face-heat shield and safety glasses and braces so that you can mount your breathing mask without removing your helmet:

http://sites.hsij.nl/aba01/helmets/gallet2.jpg

Jim, you are getting into "hillybilly" territory with your tone.

I'm going to let some of our firefighters explain why there is a difference in tactics, but if I had to guess it's due to how we build buildings. Speaking with the architure majors I knew in school, when they went to Europe, them were amazed, and shocked, and not in a good way. Maybe we build them too tough in your eyes, but our climates are a little more assertive than what you've described as you have.

I will however say one thing about that helmet- I wouldn't wear it. It doesn't protect the neck. Nomex keeps fire outside, but if it gets inside, guess what- Nomex keeps THAT fire INSIDE! With you. Gravity pulls debris down. If you have ceilings, that is going to happen.

Sounds like you've got everything but the food. I'm not sure if I'd include a crossbow, but if you can get one with a collapsable bow or store it broken down, it might be worthwhile.

I know the German army uses something like our MREs. Can you get them? Dehydrated camping food? Those for one solid meal per day per person, and Datrex rations (those are from someplace in the EU IIRC).

Even though you are on an engine, I might suggest a flat or 2 of half-liter water bottles. At least innitially, they might be more convinent.

As a long time Firefighter/EMT, I've bitten my tongue a few times, and deleted several replies before sending. I'm trying to take his post as written by a 16yo......

I agree about the helmet. The helmets keep the hot stuff, debris, and water out of the back of the coat.

Some fire departments do EMS too, so they have trained EMTs. It's a way for us to make money: The Berlin fire department had a _surplus_ of 21 million euros last year, due to the EMS business. Same at our department. We make it a point to have at least one EMT on scene wherever we go.

Our System is like this:

1 Commander (boss)
1 Engineer (operates vehicle, portable pumps and whatnot)
1 Radioman/Generalist
2 Attack team (the rambos)
2 Water team (responsible for getting the water to the pump. When that's done, second attack team)
2 Hose team (responsible for getting water to the attack team. When that's done, third attack team)

The first engine to arrive operates differently in a fire: the commander and the attack team go in, the radioman and water team go in too immediately. The hose team secures the peremeter (sp?), with the engineer doing what he always does. The commander of the second engine assumes command of the scene when he arrives.

Jim

Until you have fought fire and worn our protective equipment that we use in the US. It is probably safer for you that you don't comment on our equipment and tactics.

20

ThatGermanGuy

You might want to look at some of the rations that are used in life boats (Mainstay Bars). As far as using water from engine's tank, do you have a way to filter that water coming out?

20

I'm not commenting, but compairing the different techniques and equipments used by our and your Fire-Departement.

I've done a lot of work at the fire station, on the engines, done Heat-training and worn al sorts of protective clothing, so I do know what I'm talking about.

About American protective equipment, your right, I haven't tryed it, therefor I'm posting it. To find out what you use and how you fight fires.

And if you don't want to reply on the forum, just send me a PM.

About the helmet: Ironraven said that it doesn't protect the neck. What do you mean by that? Fire-protection or debris-protection?
If it's debris protection: That's true, but if we're in a building, we usually croutch and then the air-cylinder on the fire-fighter's back protects his neck to. So between the air-cylinder and the helm there isn't much space to let debris fall. BTW, you should always look in front of you to see if there're lose pieces of debris.

If it's fire-protection I disargee. On the back there isn't a flap of Nomex, but a flap that also has 2 side-flaps that go next to his face
and have velcro that secures under his chin. So together with his face-mask, the helmet provides full fire-protection. Most also wear a woolen balaclava under it.

(This isn't me)
http://weblog.flippie.nl/images/brandweerman_flip.jpg

Jim,
You have been pissing in a lot of people's cherrio's lately. I rarely come to the long-term forum, but since I had a number of emails and a PM directing me to your response to this thread I figured I'd stop by.

Now, first, Thermal Imagaing Camera's and "Heat Guns" are only so reliable. The chance that you leave hidden fire smoldering is high. While these tools do allow us to do less damage than before they were avalible, sometimes you have to pull some ceiling and open some walls to ensure the fire is out. Destructive, maybe but not as much as another fire.

Second, the european style helmets do offer more protection in some aspects but when tested here in America by a number of departments they failed miserably. Restricting hearing, failing debris and water from getting into coats, and not keeping water off of the SCBA mask restricting visibility.

For a number of reasons the we rely on interior firefighting vs. exterior firefighting causing the difference in our protective clothing as well as our tactics.

For a number of reasons the we rely on interior firefighting vs. exterior firefighting causing the difference in our protective clothing as well as our tactics. Our equipment and tactics would work as well in London as their equipment and vice versa... Even departments on our west coast use quite different equipment and techniques than departments on our east coast.

I'd think more a little more before type your posts, and than again before you send. The only thing your hurting is your reputation.

Oh, and many are thinking it... so I'll say it. You are 16, so you may think you know what your talking about but you really don't Training is not firefighting, anyone who says otherwise hasn't really fought fire.

In some things in my post I probably didn't use the correct words for that I was trying to ask: What are the differences in US and Holland fire fighting techniques and equipment and why are they so?
I also said that I think that there are better helmets then the ones you use.

I have put this as correct and subtile as I could think of in my MODIFYED post.

If some people still have a problem with that : Then don't reply or give me a good reason or explenation of your fire-fighting techniques and equipment.

And some of you think that I don't know enough as a sixteen-year- old on this subject. You can think whatever you want about that.
<img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

This isn't aimed against Romania, of course

Some thoughts -- Do you really want to cook over disel?
Is coffee included in your kit? I'd reccomend both having individual water bottles/ hydration packs ans several ways to filter/purify water. ( a 10-26 l hang bag, if there is such a thing)

Teacher

Uh, Jim...

When I was 16 I knew 75% of the things I know now, 14 years later. I also thought I knew about three times as much as I know I know now. It's called being a teenager.

Don't worry, you'll outgrow it if you outlive it. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

so you're 30 now, right? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Few weeks, but yeah. Why, you think that's old?

Chris was knapping flints before the cool people were doing it. :P

No, not at all. But that was the nicest thing I wanted to comment on. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

But if I had to give you a reply about the rest in your post:
You would have to know somebody for a long time and in all sorts of situations to know what he can do and knows.
You can't say anything about and judge that from info you have from a forum, and especially not by compairing someone to the 'stereo-type teenager'
In fact, if I where a stereo-type, I wouldn't be interested in survival, medical stuff, fire-departement, and I wouldn't be a member of this forum!

Just a thought.....

<img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

In the great scheme of things: The one thing I am proud of knowing, is the realization I really do not know much at all. Learning is life long and there will always be one thing more to learn then I already think I know <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />.

Pete

Greetings to all!
I belive JIMs basic question is why are our New York style helmets shaped the way they are. The short answer JIM, is that it keeps the water from running down the necks of our turnout coats. You can even purchase some in leather. (these are much more expensive and heavier to wear, but some guys like to spend money) The fire service is rather tradition heavy here in the US and therefor somewhat slow to change. I have been a firefighter for the last 17 years and have recently had a chance to try the helmets that you were displaying under actual structure fire conditions. It is definately lighter to wear, and offers more complete side protection. But that being said I would have a very hard time giving up my New Yorker.
Thought it was time to come out of the woodwork so to speak,I have been lurking about for the last four years or so and have learned much from many of you. Thanks!

Easy, you two... you're starting to make this 42 yr. old feel absolutely ancient <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Troy

Troy, my point was not so much about age, as experince. And the wisdom it brings.

And Jim, I'm not trying to be nasty. It's honest advice. You remind me of me at that age. Or my little brother, who I drove to fire calls when he was a cadet becuase he was too young to drive himself yet. If I thought you were a typical teenager, I'd ignore you.

I KNOW that, IR... that was just a little good natured ribbing <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Troy

Hmm... ribs... sounds good...

If you are feeling ancient at 42, heck at 51, I must be petrified <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Pete

Hang in there Pete, age and treachery beat youth and enthusiasm more often than not <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Troy

Well today I feel my age <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />, although I am pleased with my performance in general <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. We had one of first major rescues of the season. A hiker fell 40+ feet up at Maryland Heights near Harper?s Ferry (for those of you who know the area) down a ravine. We hiked just under a mile to get to the rescue scene. Keep in mind I am overweight <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />, out-of-shape <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> and one of the oldest members of the team <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />. Two of our members who are career Fire Fighters and in relatively good shape did make it up at least 10 min.+ ahead of me, but I was able to pass and make it up at least 10min+ ahead of our other members <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, of which several are half my age <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />. Not to bad for this old body. I definitely felt it in my knees coming down out of the mountain <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />. I am somewhat sore today, but not as bad as I envisioned <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

Pete

Hey, is that the last game in town ?! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I'm 52 and 20 days .... But I guess I'm not the older one on this forum, nor the wiser...

End of may, I will follow my first outdoors' stage .... never too late to learn something....
(well... I hope so.. ) <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Back to the previous subject :
as a non-english reader, Jim's post did not seem that much "aggressive" (except, maybe, the bit about the noise and the chrome <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ). I took it as a genuine question about why that type of helmet. In France too, the firemen helmet is different from the one used in the States (they changed to the new style about only 15 - or maybe a bit more - years ago and I guess not all firemen have the same style yet).
And being totally ignorant about the way to fight a fire (knowing the differences between A, B and C classes of fire and which extinguisher to use accordingly, doesn't make me an expert)), Jim's use of expressions like "offensive" or "defensive" methods, were, to me, more like technical terms than a jugement of right or wrong technics.....
And thanks to some answers, I now understand (a little bit..) better the why of various fire fighting technics and various helmet styles.

I'll stay out of the hat discussion 8^)

You shouldn't starve in 7 days, but decent food will help keep you happy and functioning well.

I didn't see any cooking pots , cups, utensils .
aluminum foil?
salt & pepper?

I suggest you practice (hunting) cooking, eating out of your kit while your feet are dry. Since this is a group endeavor you should ask your fellow firemen what they like.

A bag of hardcandy ( hopjes ?) takes little room and may lift the spirits of hungry, soggy firemen waiting for you to catch some game.

Perhaps the European equivalent of the #10 cans from here:
MountainHouse

Olive oil is high in calories and can be added to camp food to help increase calories.

Lee

That is certainly a fair question and one I will answer only from my perspective and limited knowledge and experience. I admit I have never worn one of what I will call the European style FF helmets. Locally, we jokingly refer to it as a Fighter Pilot Helmet.

Defense firefighting tactics generally refer to fighting the fire from outside the structure, where large hose sizes can be utilized. Frequently used to protect surrounding structures or in large structures where there is major fire involvement. Locally the use of deck or deluge guns/nozzles are commonly employed in barn fires, they are generally loaded with hay and burn quickly and very hot. Preventing spread to adjacent structures is of major concern as the barn itself is often too far-gone to save. What is the significance for the style of helmet that can be worn while fighting an exterior fire? Water is generally not pouring down on your head and hence not down the back of your coat. Also, the chances of structural elements falling on you are minimal, so protection of the neck is not as critical.

Offensive firefighting tactics require an interior attack to isolate and extinguish the fire from other parts of the structure. Search and rescue of potential victims requires an interior attack. Frequently water from above floors or roof will flood through the ceiling, which will run down into your coat unless diverted by the large flange protruding from the rear of the helmet. This same flange also provides protection to the neck from falling debris.

And as already stated - tradition. The Fire Service in the US has incredible traditions, and like in many other arenas, some good some bad. It is just the way it is, change takes time.

I am sure other FFs can add their experiences and opinions, but I hope this answers some of your questions.

Pete

Frenchy and Paramedicpete, thanks for your answers, and for understanding my questions!

Pete,
Good explinations. I'll add two things to what you said.

Defensive firefighting typically means you are writing off the structure. We have a saying in the US; "when tha ladder pipes go up, buildings come down". It is safer for the firefighters, and who wants to risk their life for a structure that is likely lost anyway. However you can't find and rescue a victim if your outside.

While offensive firefighting doesn't always = a saved structure it does allow search and rescue to be performed and belongings to be saved. Many times saving a few photo albums, heirlooms and personel papers is much more important to a person than a house or apartment.

We have a risk managment profile to use when making this decision:

• We will risk our lives alot in a calculated maner to save SAVABLE LIVES
• We will risk our lives a little in a caculated maner to save SAVABLE PROPERTY
• We will not risk our lives at all for what is ALREADY LOST

No one wants to make a parking lot, but everyone whats to go home tomarrow.

Since the initial post, I had a friend bring down a few of the helmets that his company tested. He brought three "European" style helmets and I stand by my former statement. I can see the merit of these helmets in a non-fire, rescue senerio they just don't offer thelevel of protection our style of firefighting requires. I plan on bringing them to the academy in the next few weeks to see how they do in heat.

The Fire Service has our traditions, as many have said, some good, some bad but I believe mostly good. Many of our self destructive traditions are going by the way of pullup boots, demand SCBAs (thank good... those really sucked) and wool coats treated with carbon tetrachloride(luckily way before my time). My "Traditional" Helmet today is half the weight my "New Yorker" that is hanging on my wall. Useless facesheilds that easily melt have been replaced by Googles and Boorke Eyesheilds that withstand 1200 deg, My helmet may look old, but it is state of the art protection.

But... I will stand by the traditions of honor, duty and sacrifice that the fire service world wide has held since the Romans formed the first fire brigades!

And the following traditions should also be followed without questions:

• [color:"red"] FIRE TRUCKS ARE RED [/color] ... the only exception to this rule is the forest service (because they don't know any better) and the Jack Daniels Distilery (becuase their Black and Gold engines are way cool).
• [color:"red"] ALL FIRE TRUCKS SHOULD HAVE A WIND-UP SIREN! [/color] Call them what you like "Q", "Federal Q", GRINDER but you know the way a fire truck is supposed to sould like, not these watered down ambulance or police car sirens. Sure they are loud, and annoying... but not as annoying as getting T-boned by a 50,000lbs Engine! People don't pull out in front of use as much anymore since we got our Wind-up... even the idiots talking on their cell phones, while drinking coffee and using their PDA see us now... amazing!
• [color:"red"] FIRE HELMETS SHOULD BE BLACK! [/color] At least for firefighters, Cheifs need their white ones so they can be seen coming and avoided. Company Officers probably should have their own color too... so everyone can keep an eye on them, you never know where they'll wonder to. But Fire Helmets should be BLACK!

Sorry our fire trucks (engines, tower, etc.) are green and white <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. The Independent Hose Co.#1 is the oldest continually operating Vol. Fire Company in the State of Maryland EST. 1818 <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />. So unless you guys go back further than that - green and white counts <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. FYI: In the county we also have blue and white <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />, slime yellow/lime, orange <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />and of course red <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />.

My fire helmet is yellow <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
I have two rescue helemts: 1 slime lime, the other white

Pete <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My department was founded in 1975... but I have worked for two departments on the east coast one founded in 1788 and the other 1834... both had red trucks <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Green and White sounds like a park ranger's truck <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Oh, and a slime green rescue helmet... ICK <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I'll have to disgree with two things.

First, sirens:
I don't know what euro sirens you've heard, but our are two-tone air horns, putting out 144 dB at 5 meters. Enough to cause hearing damage within seconds even on someone wearing plugs. Which is why we have a little toggle switch for the 100dB mode, which we only really use in residential areas at night.

The other one is about helmets:
I prefer slime lime (glow-in-the-dark optional) to black, at least when issued. The color of a man's helmet darkens in direct proportion to the time he was on the force, with rookies almost too blinding to look at, and old hands black/stainless steel from the soot and the scratches. REAL firemen's helmets _should_ be black :P

As for the helmets: With nearly all (>95%) of all structures we go offensive on (so no barns, shend etc.), the cielings are rebarred concrete. You don't get water leakage or significant debris before the building actually collapses, so protection from that is not _that_ important over here.

The problem with the electronic sirens is that Americans tend to ignore them... they don't ignore our grinder.

Even a black helmet shows it's users time on the job... especially with the leather fronts and reflectors <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Then they take your broken down, burnt up "Firefighter" front and give you a shinny new "Engineer" front <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Wish all of our buildings were built well... with concrete rebarred ceilings! Ah, but we get to deal with lightweight construction! Most of the debris we deal with is from overhaul and pulling ceilings...

"Green and White sounds like a park ranger's truck" <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Not even close - take a look <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />:
IHC Apparatus

Take at look at ATRS1 - My pride and joy <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />- itis an old gas truck <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />.

Slime lime is highly visible from air; the helicopter crews all have remarked how easy it is to find us, even under a dense canopy <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. Our rescue jackets are slime lime and reflective black.

Well those do look better than Slime Green... but case in point that looks like a park ranger truck to me <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Nice ATR rig, I am glad to see that the Tradition of buidling up great rigs from others "hand me downs" lives on. We are building up a new Brush rig as we speak.

We have a lot of Red, with some "lime" green and some white
also. CDF is switching from Red to White for all their vehicles.

Dave

.. any chance to see a close-up pix of your helmet ??

Disclaimers :
- I don't know sh... about firefighting <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
- I don't want to start a war on the forum <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

BUT .....

I have to agree with Romania : fire trucks should be RED; Every little boy has dreamed to become a FF, if only because of the RED fire trucks
<img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

OTOH, slime lime is also higly visible at night...
BUT that still doesn't make it a color for fire engines ! <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


those are fire engines !! ;

the current helmet of Paris' "sapeurs pompiers" (the one in the middle) ; BTW, in Paris, FF are military men.

F1 helmet (another pix)

maybe... let me see what I can find:

Okay, here is the first Carins 1010 I was issued... stupid heavy face shield and all (yes, we are actually working a dog pulled from a fire)

Here is my second carins 1010. They took my broken one away from me <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />



And as it currently looks (well, I actually have an Engineers front on it now...) You can't really see it, but it has some cool American Flag sticker around the top.


If I promote I'll end up with a Red one <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

A few years ago a local city gave one of their old Engines to their sister city in mexico. They said Thanks, now lets paint red, like a Fire Engine should be.

Dave

A war never <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

We let the younger Fire Department use red, when you have 180+ years of tradition, it not going to change <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

Pete

Pete,

That is a tradition I can understand!

But, these departments that say... hey Yellow looks good lets change <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> i don't understand.

SO, trivia question for all you fire buffs out there... why were fire engines originally painted red?

Maybe this should get moved to the Campfire

I'll second your post as well Pete. But I need to disagree about red trucks. Our Deparment went white about 15 years ago and the do look sweet. We do take some ribbing about driving the Ice Cream van, but we reply that it's really a beer wagon. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Our website is www.MallettsBayFire.com My helmet is black too!

I don't know about fire engines...
maybe it's the same as for Father Xmas (his clothing is red now, was green before some US soft drink company decided marketing had to do something about it ...)
<img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hey Mallets Bay! I grew up in Hinesburg!

Small world! <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />I've been with "The Bay" since 1989, how long have you been out in AZ?

Moved here in 1994! My first Triathlon was in Colchester!

I worked as a volunteer at the first triathalon back in 1990 or 1991. Do you know anyone on Hinesburg fire?

I suppose it's better than Hardwick. :P

And Matt, your rigs do look good.

as far as cooking stoves go i highly recommend the Trangia 25 alcohol stove. since its a Swedish military stove i'm sure you can get them cheap in europe at an army surplus store. it burns very clean and you can use vodka, denatured alcohol, rubbing alcohol, etc. whatever is available.

The swedish millitairy cooking kit is not the same as the trangia 25.

I wonder if you'd consider stashing bulk food at the fire house; city hall, members homes, etc?

...And People say I'm Nuts!
You guys just keep running INTO burning buildings!
Be advised, there is something seriously wrong between those ears guys. I should know.

Just kidding, you guys know we all love ya!
But I'll stick with bombs, and my fantasy world where I'm the normal one, and you guys are the weird ones! LOL!

Keep your heads down, and take care of all the other charcoal briquets.
Cheers,
Mike

''We go in were everybody else comes out''

I don?t know, I have run into many a burning buildings, but fiddling around with bombs is ... well it?s just not right <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />. I have had two incidents with suspicious packages calls that make me think that all is not quite right up there <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />.

The first was a Medic unit standby, while the Bomb Squad using a robot, examined a suspicious package with wires sticking out of it. We were standing behind the corner of a building when all of sudden we heard this loud bang, <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> I think I jumped 3 feet up while one of the other members of the crew must have jumped 6 feet straight up, a couple of others took off running <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />. The Bomb Squad decided to blow the package up with a shotgun blast from the robot without letting any of us know the plan. We all had a good laugh <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> at our reaction over that call.

The second was again on the Medic unit to standby and provide pre and post vitals for the guy getting all decked out to inspect the suspicious box. We were making small talk with him and asked how much protection the suit offered, he just laughed and said the suit only kept the body parts together, making it easier for the corner <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />. He said the concussion of the blast would kill and then basically jellify the internal organs, but at least they could find all of his body parts with relative ease <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />. He was one pumped up dude <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />, saying he could not wait to get out there. His BP was a little high (no wonder), so we made him wait a few minutes to calm down. He finally went out, the package turned out to be nothing, but his reaction gave us pause for thought about his sanity <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

Pete

Yeah, that sounds about right. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
And for future reference, we dont tell a lot of people when we are about to disrupt a device, just to watch them jump. That is unless, we can see the shot, and then you can usually watch us stare and drool on ourselves.

Keep your heads down,
Mike

> making it easier for the corner

Presumably he meant "coroner". (Apologies if you knew this - your smiley, together with the spelling mistake, made it unclear.)

You mean that spell check missed another one <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

Pete

Hi Alex,

I prefer raisins and canned, smoked almonds as high calorie, hi fat, hi salt emergency food that is very tolerant of adverse weather conditions and somewhat friendly to people with non-nut food allergies.

The water purification tabs could be replaced with a Katadyn filter that would last much longer.

The sleeping pad mentioned earlier is a great idea along with very warm sleeping bags.

I was able to spend 3 months in Germany during the early 90's in the military. Germany is a wonderful country with awesome scenic areas!!!!

You want to burn vodka??

What has this world come to?

Hehe