There was a thread on this earlier on these forums. A couple of things here... improvising a weapon for self defense isn't the same as asking how to smuggle on bomb making materials or a multiple-target weapon (i.e. gun). In most SD situations, something to throw for distraction or blunt impact is the way to go, and it's not going to help you take over a jet.

This is certainly covered under free speech. I'm sick of people rolling over and saying "lock this" or "can't respond" because something is sensitive. Please, we have a right to defend ourselves, and to discuss how to do so. Moving it to a plane or train or bus makes ZERO difference. The only one is in your head because all of the FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) generated largely by those who shouldn't be doing so. Our own lovely security departments determined recently that every single airport they tested (21 if I'm not mistaken) allowed bomb making materials aboard. So, the illusion here is not only one of privacy of what you post (either here or between friends on chat or email) but also that you are safe in the air because the TSA takes away your multi-tool and tweezers.

Fear of exercising your right to speak freely about something that could save your life seems rather silly doesn't it? The NSA was just caught red handed piggybacking on all of AT&T's traffic - worldwide. This includes traffic coming from other providers like worldcom, etc. And you can be absolutely certain that AT&T isn't the only one. Every electronic bit is carefully screened at Fort Meade. Our privacy is a complete illusion, so saying that we shouldn't speak on forums doesn't make sense if you are saying it somewhere you think is private!

So, in the name of free speech, there are many ways to improvise defensive weapons. Fire extinguishers, blackjacks (socks with coins or heavy objects), thrown full coke cans, thrown heavy bags, using a meal tray as a shield, golf clubs, etc. I don't see how any of those items would help a would-be terrorist, but they could certainly help crew and passengers take down a threatening person or two.

The TSA and airlines need to have Air Marshals on every flight, hardened cockpits with armed and trained pilots (many are ex military anyway). They need to screen ALL luggage, checked or carry-on. Make sure all bags are run over by chemical sensors and dogs. Screen every single employee carefully and maintain rock solid security procedures for the INTERNAL employees (where the real danger lies)! All of the money necessary to do the real work is funnelled into our current system meant to provide an illusion of safety while (intentionally or unintentionally) harassing law-abiding citizens. Not only is it your right to talk about this, it's should be brought up more often and certainly brought to the attention of your elected officials.

The quest to deny terrorists tools to take over an airplane is a noble one, but one of the side effects is that the average passenger is severely restricted as well. We are less able to "retake" an aircraft now than we were on 9-11.

Another unfortunate side effect is that it's not "ok" to discuss issues like this these days

Alas, that's the way it is now... they've burned the village to save it.

I'm on your side. Everything you're saying makes sense to me.

As for this other forum, it was basically, "Free speech is dead, get used to it. And lower the blinds while you're busy being quiet."

It was, I admit, a little freaky. But the moderator did it, and he said the closing of the thread was not open for discussion.

-- Craig

If that's an old expression, how come I've never heard it? <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

-- Craig

I would like to register my utter disgust with The Amercan Authorities refusal to formally recognise the bravery of the passengers of ' 93. If the rules govening such awards do not at present permit such an award your President should, by Presidential decree, change them. It is sufficient that they tried, and in the doing, died. An award of The Medal of Freedom, to be entombed in their memorial would be appropriate. It is the duty of every American ( and everyone else for that matter) to resist hijackers by any and all means. Even at the sacrifice of their lives. If the FBI or anyone else wants to take umbridge at the above, be my guest.

For once I think they actually got it right. Take a look at this. A National Memorial is a pretty big deal (and richly deserved.)

" If that's an old expression, how come I've never heard it?"

I may be wrong but I've got it in my head that Groucho said it..... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I am glad that someone has got the Honour, Courage & Decency to raise a memorial to them. It looks simple and dignified - as such memorials should be. And it's not taboo to publicly remember and salute such courage.

Becuase the crew at the gate can confiscate anything they feel is potentially dangerous, reguardless of the written list says you CAN have, as per the disclaimer at the bottom of said list.

Basically, if they don't want you have it, you can hand it over, or miss the flight.

The decision may have been made for him by the host. ISPs usually have a clause that says if there is something distasteful but not illegal, they can ask you to remove it or cancel your contract