Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#6321 - 05/20/02 01:14 AM Spring Fever
AyersTG Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1272
Loc: Upper Mississippi River Valley...
Another fantastic weekend rambling in the woods in the Midwest - and the weather was even spectacular. Perfect bluebird days in the 50's to low 60's and nights in the upper 30s to 40ish. I expect to read a LENGTHY rhapsody from Bill V. about his weekend cataloging rare flora a little ways north of me - Bill?<br><br>Friday thru this afternoon, eldest son and I attended a modest size gathering at our scout reservation, with wife and other sons able to spend most of Saturday assisting. Although there were enough folks attending to accomplish some important maintenance tasks, we were easily able to camp and do our parts in semi-isolation, then walk in and gather for meals and other business - sort of the best of both worlds in some respects.<br><br>It's been pretty wet in the upper Mississippi River valley the last several weeks, and we've been fortunate enough to spend 3/4 of the last 4 weekends in the woods all weekend. Some observations:<br><br>1. Short of committing a large scale act of environmental violence, it is very difficult to find dry fixin's for fires right now. It's not simply the rain; it's been HUMID and the dews are something to behold - even the sheltered dead stuff on cedars is damp through and through as a result. Some native shrubbery (hedge??? I know it when I see it...) that usually has a collection of dead shoots yielded fairly dry fixin's, as we expected, but it only burns so-so and is not very good at drying out more suitable wood. Otherwise, splitting various dead woods of various sizes at best gave us damp wood. <br><br>While we were always able to produce useful fire when we wished, it took a LOT more foraging, preparation, nursing, and time than is normal for us, and fire lays with damp wood are not the same as with dry wood. We're about as knowledgable as we're likely to get without hands-on instruction from some bonafide experts on things in OUR neck of the woods. I honestly do not believe that a "tossed-into-the-woods-naked-expert" would be able to produce fire under these conditions, although I'd be happy to be wrong about that. If we had not been carrying some sort or another of dry tinder... we have been abstaining from matches and lighters for quite some time (yeah, we carry them just in case, of course). Natural spark catching materials in situ, dry tinder in situ - forget about it. I'm ready to learn beyond what I know now from someone - any significant tips?<br><br>2. Gadgetoria: <br><br> CS shovel (sharpened with a file) is a cleverly useful tool. Light chopping, moderate splitting (I'm talking campfires, not woodlot operations), coal manipulation - oh, it digs as well. Very handy; all vehicles should have one or something similar.<br><br> Magnesium bars (eg Doans) are as much PITA as I recalled. Perseverence, patience, and a big knife help. Smaller folders are terrible at getting shavings off. This stuff must be a Mag-alum alloy - it is too darned hard to be truly useful. About like trying to get shavings off an alloy wheel - maybe worse. Anyone ever try to anneal one of these? They're just too hard for me to take them seriously. OTOH... I suppose I can fiddle around with other pocket stuff, like Wave file, but first importance to me is that only a knife-like tool should get the job done.<br><br> Knives about the size of an SRK and a bit larger are very useful for many routine tasks. Slimmer fixed blade knives are also very useful for most of the same tasks (not splitting wood) and more. Neither are so useful if they are not on your person (and they are about as welcome as a submachine gun at a church picnic to some folks tender eyes). Big locking folders are not the equal of fixed blade knives for many things. I'm still leaning towards less expensive locking knives for regular abuse, er, use when a fixed blade is going to cause conniption fits. BTW, fellow Scouters, we are not getting any grief for this from 90% of our fellow scouters - genuine interest and appreciation only. It helps that our scouts are well-behaved and very "mature" with sharps.<br><br> Sparklites work great with supplied "tinder" or homemade (e.g. cotton balls impregnated with beeswax or petroleum jelly, char cloth, etc.). Get the orange colored ones - the OD ones are much more difficult to keep track of if dropped. However, I find them a bit too small to easily manipulate in my hand and wonder about effectively using one if I/my hand is very cold/damaged. Also, they are dirrectional (rotate the wheel in the indicated direction). If space is not at an absolute premium, I'm thinking that a Blast match of current production would be prefereable for one-handed sparks. I'll have to purchase one and use it for a while... anyone using a current production Blast-match? We're content with simple rods for routine use and find it hard to beat the BSA Hot Spark for over-all value and utility. It's EDC for all of us and it's what we normally light fires with. A bigger rod would not be as close to hand.<br><br> Good multi-tools get near-constant use, with the pliers seeing the lions share of applications. We prefer Leatherman Waves, period, but that's just personal choice. For those on a severe budget, I suggest a small pair of pliers (needle nose or linesman) in a homemade belt holster or pouch. I carried a pair of needle nose pliers for 20+ years whenever I stepped into the wilds, and the key is like with a big knife - have it on you. Buried in a repair kit in ones pack is OK but not as useful. The utility of pliers fairly leaps at one when they are at-hand constantly. Some of my kids have been carrying Waves ever since that model came out, I think, but I've only been carrying one for a year or two. Having it on one makes a huge difference.<br><br> Photon IIs are so darned handy, it's silly to not carry one or more as EDC all the time. We RARELY ever dig out a headlamp or LED flashlight since we started carrying Photon IIs - thanks, Doug. Yeah, I'll probably pick up an Arc-Light LE one of these days, but I don't think it will replace the Photon IIs. Red in the right pocket, turquoise in the left, and I use the red one most of the time. In the woods I add a white one on a break-away lanyard around my neck, but it usually gets remembered only when I want to check the cooking pot after dark.<br><br>3. Oops - the feast for the returning wanderers is ready... hope Bill has posted about his weekend by the time I'm sipping my post-prandial beverage...<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom

Top
#6322 - 05/20/02 03:57 PM Re: Spring Fever
billvann Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 780
Loc: NE Illinois, USA (42:19:08N 08...
Now I've got Tom putting on the pressure of a deadline like an old cigar chompin' newspaper editor! Geez!<br><br>I'll be writing up a lengthy piece on my weekend for my website, as well as for the Owasippe Staff Association (OSA) newsletter. But I can mention a few highlights now from this weekend's BioBlitz at Owasippe Scout Reservation (OSR).<br><br>Early forays into the field by BioBlitz birders failed to locate any wild Lupine in the target habitats they wanted us to explore. So the daylong trek through the southeast corner of OSR. Instead we hiked north along the western side of the Cleveland Creek watershed. Birders found one field with Lupine so we were to investigate that field to determine the extent of its range as well as to try and find additional habitats.<br><br>Then there were scattered sites around the reservation they wanted us to checkout, mostly in additional Oak Savanna habitats, similar to the SE corner. So the expectations were low, but even verifying the absence is useful, as it will help restrict their conservation efforts in the future and save them man-hours of initial investigation. So our afternoon was spent two-trackin' along seldom used access and logging roads, with brief jaunts into potential habitat sites.<br><br>In short, we found an additional site along the Cleveland Creek watershed, confirmed the absence in the others, and found a huge population in an area they weren't even initially considering.<br><br>Ran my gas tank dangerously low (again, I wasn't planning on 4-wheeling).<br><br>Scrapped the rear panel of the other leader's brand new pickup truck with my side mirror as we were backing out of tight spot.<br><br>Managed to linger too long in one of the section camps (OSR has three full section camps, A high adventure base and a family camp), and get locked in while everyone else was starting diner at the Ad Center.<br><br>Found a way out by following an old service road I remembered from back in 1975 that was bearly more that a car-width path through the woods.<br><br>We did make it back in time before diner ended so we could eat. Then our boys stepped up a helped the kitchen volunteers clean up without being asked. (Of all our accomplishments this weekend, that made me the proudest).<br><br>Two of our boys were so inspired by the camp that they want to apply for staff next year.<br><br>All in all it was a very successful trip. I still need to fill out some reports for The Nature Conservancy. I also plan on sending the leaders from all three organizations my suggestions on how they can blend the BioBlitz and future conservation efforts into the scouting program at summer camp.<br><br>Oh, on a side note, at one point we were standing above the spillway on Gus Kopp Dam that forms Lake Wolverine. Right there, not ten feet below us was a small group of Bluegills and 4-5 huge Smallmouth Bass lurking around the edges of the weed beds. I think even I could have caught us diner on a hand line! I had my PSK with me, but not enough time left in the day to play around with it.<br>
_________________________
Willie Vannerson
McHenry, IL

Top
#6323 - 05/20/02 05:39 PM Re: Spring Fever
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
We have a fast rainstorm moving through right now. I was up at the ranch, built a classic TEEPEE assembly of kindling, fuzz sticks, broken branches and finally freshly split billets of Eucalyptus. I scraped some sparks with the metal match and watched with satisfaction as the fire ignited, gained strength and then suddenly die.I repeated my efforts and checked for ground drafts. The fire again died. About this time Jose, the orchard manager drove by. They burn slash on these days and I could see the smoke rising beyond in the rows of lemons. Jose slowly got out, looked at my efforts and shook his head. "Patron, the weather, she no like fire this day" He then produced a can of Chicano lighter fluid ( gasoline) and doused my teepee. Within minutes a black plume worthy of Kevin Costner in Dances With Wolves was defying the elements. Tom's observations on knives is interesting. I find myself reaching for a Leukko-Puukko combination set in spite of their shortcomings ( big knife -little knife in common sheath.) I know there have been similar hunter combinations offered. My other knife duos are perhaps better: The pairing of two knives with similar ergonomics seems to enhance familiarity.


Edited by Chris Kavanaugh (05/20/02 09:35 PM)

Top
#6324 - 05/20/02 06:35 PM Re: Spring Fever
AyersTG Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1272
Loc: Upper Mississippi River Valley...
<< Now I've got Tom putting on the pressure of a deadline like an old cigar chompin' newspaper editor! >><br><br>Well, it worked <grin> - thanks. Look forward to reading more about it on your website.<br><br><< Ran my gas tank dangerously low >><br><br>Er, me, too late on Sunday. Time was short, volunteers departed, and we had some brush to haul off. I've not grown accustomed to my "new" truck with a single 29 gallon fuel tank and it's irksome to me - I'm accustomed to the dual tanks on my old truck. I think I'm going to have to investigate aftermarket tanks BUT I don't know how my on board computer(s) are going to like that... they have proven to be very accurate. Perhaps what I will do is install an unplumbed aux tank and wire/plumb up an electric fuel pump to transfer to the factory tank. I really do not like single tanks... I normally run the main down to 1/4 tank, transfer to aux and run it dry, then revert to the remaining 1/4 tank in the main - that's a respectable reserve on the road. I alter that if I'm departing the hardball road, of course.<br><br>Thanks for the summary write-up, Bill!<br><br>Tom

Top
#6325 - 05/20/02 06:51 PM Re: Spring Fever
AyersTG Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1272
Loc: Upper Mississippi River Valley...
Ah, yes - "Girl Scout water" - sometimes that's the best approach <grin>. There was this standing black spruce tree one -50F afternoon and we were about gonners... looked like the night of the living dead shuffling up to that blazing tree... none of us could ever have stayed lucid long enough to build a conventional fire, but 1/2 gallon of gasoline and a match did the trick. At that temp, the gasoline ignited ponderously - more like charcoal lighter than gasoline.<br><br>I keep a few trioxane bars in my kits for that reason - and they readily and safely take a spark for ignition even when deteriorated/expired. But even those can have a tough go when everything is saturated - when I really have needed those, there were still no shortcuts to a self-sustaining fire. However, I believe my wife could have coaxed up a fire the day after Noah's ark settled on terra firma - I don't know how she does it. No training; don't tell her "that won't work...", but I note that it's tedious even for her in nasty weather.<br><br>Chris, oddly enough, I was thinking exactly of the Leukko-Puukko combination - funny you mention that. The concept makes a lot of sense to me. Sometimes I curse at thick-spined blades... I still probably would prefer them if they were the only fixed blade I had, but they are not perfect. Did you get yours through Ragweed forge?<br><br>Tom

Top
#6326 - 05/20/02 07:42 PM Re: Spring Fever
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
Yes I did. He has them in either stainless or carbon. I bought the carbon, but my casual observation indicates the stainless are beveled better. The carbons all have slightly deeper grind marks at the hilt and all of these knives are slightly asymetric at the point. This is getting really nitpicking with handmade knives and Im very pleased. Ragnar related one lueko being returned when it snapped. The owner was splitting wood. These are slender knives, luekos are still slicers and not choppers. I've done it, carefully with smaller diameter softwoods. Ragnar mentioned a swinging style used by the Saami. Ill have to ask him again.They wouldn't be my first choice in a survival situation, but certainly not my last.


Edited by Chris Kavanaugh (05/20/02 09:31 PM)

Top
#6327 - 05/20/02 08:43 PM Re: Spring Fever
billvann Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 780
Loc: NE Illinois, USA (42:19:08N 08...
Firestarting problemI've tried using a knife blade on a MFS and it's hard to do. So I've resorted to the file on my multi-tool. <br><br>Also, I bought extra Sparklite tinders from Barry so I could have a few to practice. So I gathered the kids together and we each to turns. My oldest and I, the ones with the larger fingers, had a little difficulty with the small handle. But my younger two got thier tinders going with only on attempt!
_________________________
Willie Vannerson
McHenry, IL

Top
#6328 - 05/20/02 09:36 PM Re: Spring Fever
AyersTG Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1272
Loc: Upper Mississippi River Valley...
Bill -<br><br>Are you moving the blade or the rod? Try holding the blade stationary and pulling the rod away (into the knife). After a couple of tries it will become natural and a knife blade will blow sparks all over the place that way BUT you will not hit/scatter the tinder. I had trouble until I figured that out - it's as easy as striking a match now - no, easier, because it works every time.<br><br>Hope that helps.<br><br>Tom

Top
#6329 - 05/21/02 03:00 AM Re: Spring Fever
johnbaker Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 384
Loc: USA
Bill<br><br>I'm glad something got you writing! It sounds like you had a great time.<br><br>I suspect that the part the boys enjoyed most was when you were accidentally locked in the camp & had to work your way out driving down the one lane road. I'm guessing that you don't do a lot of such drives. If so, you can count on the boys frequently retelling the adventure in ways that become more grandiose & outrageous with each recounting. <br><br>Three years ago, we took an Easter week trailer camping trip to the mountains. One afternoon while we were fishing at the river, the sky darkened, the wind began to howl, & a late snow storm hit. The fishing was slow, so we packed up & drove back to camp. Then during what had become a lightweight blizzard, I discovered that I had lost the keys to our locked trailer. They weren't in any of my pockets, in or under the truck seat, or on the ground. I realized I must have dropped them at the river. By the then the ground was covered with snow. Looking around the campground, I noticed that one of the other campers had the same make & approximate year of trailer that we had. Thirty-year old Ideal camping trailers never die. :-) One early discovery in trailering, is that there are surprisingly few patterns used on trailer keys. Unfortunately for me, my fellow "Idealist" had replaced his lock. We unsuccessfuly tried various ways to get in the trailer without damaging it. Then I thought to call auto club. While on the phone, the other trailer camper tried tried some of his myriad other keys. Amazingly, the key to his home workshop, unlocked my trailer door. Naturally we thanked our benefactor profusely. :-))<br><br>About 1 1/2 hours after getting back to camp, we got into the trailer for the night. The next morning, we went back to where we had been fishing at the river and found the missing keys almost immediately. We did a lot of really fun things on that trip. But the boys said that the most fun part of the trip was being locked out of our trailer during the snowstorm! :-}<br><br>John

Top
#6330 - 05/21/02 08:59 AM Re: Spring Fever
johnbaker Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 384
Loc: USA
Tom,<br><br>It sounds like you have a mature & sage group of scouters observing your use of knives. Maybe I should try pushing the envelope hereabouts. Only problem is I suspect we too have a 90-10% distribution of attitudes, but the opposite way from yours.<br><br>On the issue of gasoline supply, you guys are really fearless. :-o I start thinking about a refill when I switch to my second tank. :-}<br><br>John

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, chaosmagnet, cliff 
December
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30 31
Who's Online
0 registered (), 859 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Aaron_Guinn, israfaceVity, Explorer9, GallenR, Jeebo
5370 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Missing Hiker Found After 50 Days
by Ren
Today at 02:24 PM
Leather Work Gloves
by KenK
11/24/24 06:43 PM
Satellite texting via iPhone, 911 via Pixel
by Ren
11/05/24 03:30 PM
Emergency Toilets for Obese People
by adam2
11/04/24 06:59 PM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.