FLASHLIGHTS FOR SELF DEFENSE

As strange as it sounds, some flashlights are used for self defense quite often in daily life.
Sometimes by professionals Police Officers in a way to avoid using deadly force in confrontations with suspects, and other times by civilians that are not permitted to carry lethal weapons.

In the US we have it quite good in that we are allowed to carry short knives and some others implements but in the majority of Europe such activities are illegal or highly frowned upon by the authorities.

If you defend yourself with a baseball bat even in your own home in certain countries you have to give reason for why you have such an implement with you.

One of my flashlights that I promote in the States as the Search and Rescue 852 lumens to use in emergency vehicles such as ambulances, fire trucks, helicopters etc. because is too heavy and too long to be easily portable (it is based on the Maglite 4 D). I have found appreciative customers in the European market to be used as self defense tool by civilians that go out for a stroll or to walk the dog situations.

Other lights use others means of incorporating defense mechanisms in their construction. I am thinking now about the ARES Defense Companion, a Maglite with 3 cells that incorporates a shotgun of 410 gauge (only one picture is circulating in the Internet and I think is not in production) or the Tiger Light that incorporates a pepper spray canister, or the several models of Surefire that come with crenellated bezels (one example is the popular E2D executive Defender).

Surefire was the first (to my knowledge) at popularizing the crenellated bezel and the SureFire Institute offers a class in basic defensive tactics called “The power of Light” which is open to all qualified civilians as well as law enforcement professionals .
The course is taught by certified instructor Steve Tarani (shown below delivering a carotid strike).




My own MAG 951 II or the EXP 852 can be had with the optional heavy stainless steel crenellated bezel that I offer in a limited production run.
Such bezels add 3 ounces to the weight of the head and the bezel even that is not actually sharp will be a good imitation of the broken beer bottle.
I don’t think that an aggressor, if he is in his right mind, will confront such a weapon that first will blind him with 951 lumens and then is ready to rearrange his facial features.



Some handy accessories have been produced to increase the defensive use of the Maglite. I am thinking of a quality item made with great care and good materials called the Piggy Back; it will keep a container of Pepper spray quite handy by screwing the accessory to the end of the MAG tail-cap.



Or from the same company the accessory tail-cap with carbide insert capable of breaking automotive glass.



My own Quick Detach Swivel, when used only with the nub for the lanyard, can be very hard on skulls and noses.



This MAG 951 sports the heavy 3 inch head (the head is now out of production), more resembling a medieval mace. This is also a fantastic throw monster reaching over several hundred yards.



I have in my long association with the flashlight Industry seen a few models which spray OC from the front of the lens, flashlights that also incorporate a screaming siren, flashlights that incorporate a stun gun and others weird contraptions all of them gone from the market now.

What seems to prevail is just a good weight reliable flashlight that can be used as a baton or with the new crenellated bezels and the introduction of really powerful MEGA lights capable of blinding an assailant.

Best regards,
Black bear

> If you defend yourself with a baseball bat even in your own home in certain countries you have to
> give reason for why you have such an implement with you.

In the UK, a flashlight that is an offensive weapon (eg crenellated) will likely be treated by police like any other offensive weapon. That it has a second use as a torch won't help you. The fact that you chose to buy a weaponised flashlight instead of a normal one will damn you.

Those are not "crenelations". They're scalloped openings in the lens hood. Offensive? I never considered the possibility. I use them the way they're supposed to be used... to allow me to see if my light is on when I set it on a table. What else would you do with them?

;-)

Do you expect British police to believe that? Do you think they are all stupid? Is lying to them really the best way forward?

I dunno. They apparently believe outlawing weapons makes society safer. They're already irrational.

Unless they find the flashlight covered in blood with bits of meat hanging from the pointy parts, I would expect my manner, dress and race would determine whether or not they buy the explanation.

So yeah, I think it'd work. It'd work here, depending on who you are, how you look and where you were when it became an issue.

> They apparently believe outlawing weapons makes society safer.

The police don't make the laws. And let's not get sidetracked into politics.


> I would expect my manner, dress and race would determine whether or not they buy the explanation.

All the more reason not to lie to them and act as if they were fools.

I never called them fools or stupid. You assumed I think they are because of what I'd say. There are other explanations...

Sometimes, the police seem to want to let you go, if only you'll stop being an idiot for a few minutes. I know. My brother's a cop. Give them a plausible explanation that's not an obvious lie, act like you're "one of the good guys", and most of the time, you get to go one with your life.

So. It's not a weaponized flashlight. It's a gift from the wife, with the nifty lantern feature that allows light to come out while standing on end. Said with the enthusiasm of a flashlight nerd, complete with demonstration, discussion of pros and cons relative to other lights you own, recommendation for them to get one, they'll really like it! questions about their own lights, etc.

If you want to disagree about this, and whether you think it would work, great. But please... stop putting words in my mouth.

Any flashlight (torch) of sufficient weight and length can be used as an effective weapon. In fact, it can be a rather devestating one even in the hands of the untrained. I have friends in uniform, both LEO and .mil, and I don't envy their jobs very often. But one thing is for sure, their jobs can be very "situational". And although they don't make the laws, they not only enforce them, but they interpret them to some degree. They can also choose to selectively apply them based on experience and "gut" instinct.

I wouldn't lie to a cop, but I might selectively answer and leave things out. And should the matter warrant something more than a traffic ticket, I would use my right to keep my mouth shut and just not say anything until my lawyer showed up.

Are you saying that guns stir up politics? LOL

A flashlight is a tool, not a weapon. Just like a hammer, wrench, or screwdriver. But ANYTHING can be used as a weapon. If you are defending yourself, then that implies that you were attacked. Because the attack was so sudden, you did not have time to retreat (if you live where that is a legal requirement before you can defend yourself). You instinctivly brought up your hands to defend yourself from this attack, while still holding your flashlight. It made contact with your attacker. That really made him mad. Maybe you remember him making additional threatening statements or becoming more agressive. Now you are in fear of your life or the lives of your family. Your attacker is now more determined than before. You strike or gouge your attacker until he is in a position that you can restrain him/retreat/get a better weapon to hold him at bay. If you do not have any warrants for your arrest, nor do you have a history of using your flashlight as an offensive weapon, I write up a report and list you as the victim and the other guy as the suspect. He goes to jail, and you go home.

This is not legal advise, just the way we look at things in my part of the world.

The way I always judge these things, is not what I say to a Police officer but to a court. You would have to hope for a really useless prosecutor to get away with carrying something like that. I think some of the mods are already banned, which would make it worse.

I am looking hard at the Inova T series, esp the T1. Carrying anything that is modified for self defense use is against the law. Carrying anything for self defense use is against the law, people have been done for carrying rolled up newspapers, the use is all in the UK.

One thing to keep in mind is that in this modern world your blade or gun could be at home because you are in a certain type of public places.

> I never called them fools or stupid.

I never said you did. I said you should not act as though they were. I did not put words into your mouth.


> It's not a weaponized flashlight.

The root message was talking about weaponized flashlights, torches which are "more resembling a medieval mace". If you have something different in mind, that's fine.

I think, with all due respect, that the British perspective on legal aspects of self defense is of limited value, as the practise of self defense in the UK is prohibited. I am not aware of any circumstances where the need to self defend overrides the "duty to retreat".

But to return to the fascinating topic at hand, given that "hammer blows" are likely to be defended against by arms and hands, what are the typical methods used with flashlight defense? It would seem that the "poking" you would typically do with something like a cane, wouldn't be as effective because of the stubby nature of the flashlight.

I like the idea of throwing, with the lanyard, but don't think I could trust my aim in a self defense scenario (pulse rate, adrenaline etc.).

There are many techniques I can think off off the top of my head:

• Spear: where you take two hands on a longish flashlight and ram one end (preferably the narrower one) into the attacker.
• Club: Use as a bat, mace, baton or similar swinging weapon where significant acceleration at the end of the flashlight impacts.
• Fist "enhancer": much like a roll of coins, steel bar, or other heavy weighted object, a smaller flashlight is held in the grasped fist and the knuckles are used as the attack surface.
• Hammer: Meant differently than "club" above. Hold flashlight in hand. Use the butt end as the strike surface with a swinging motion. Useful for smaller flashlights or tight spaces. Can be used vertically or semi-horizontally (striking inward from the side).
• Push: Grasp long light on either end, use the middle to push/block attack. Can also be used to strike either with center or with "enhanced" fist as above. Also excellent for locks/takedowns
• Thrown: Best if it's heavy and metal. Last ditch as a distraction for removal of your body from the area (RUN!).
• Blind: Temporarily blind by flashing attacker directly in their eyes.

There are probably a few more. Solar Plexus, head, neck, throat, and chest are all fairly lethal points of attack. Knee caps, groins, arms, fingers, may not be lethal, but can certainly save your bacon. In a fight, for me it would depend on how threatened I felt. If my attacker came up on me in the dark, he's getting whatever I can give. If it's some idiot trying to start a fight, maybe he gets away with a broken bone or two. But if it's a real life or death situation, I'm attacking any target of convenience.

The British perspective... phew, that's a whole other thread and I don't think it belongs in this forum... and Chris might just start locking it down as I'm pretty sure it's going to raise some anger over very polarizing issues. Note the use of the z. Yes, I'm from the U.S. I didn't spell it polarising. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Nice looking lights... I am a surefire fan, but the light you mention for fire/ems interests me... details?

Dude please, PLEASE, don't come on here and lecture Americans about weapons, police & self defense. You are wasting our time.

Not really replying to the original post, but rather the tone of some of my countrymen:

I don't believe that Dave (Brangdon) is saying that the UK situation is better or worse than USA situation. What I read is his explanation of how he understands UK police and courts view this sort of thing and likely responses in accordance with their laws and judicial system. Some of us arguing with Dave that the UK situation is "________" (fill in the blank) seems silly to me. A fellow UK citizen has "standing" to argue those sorts of things with Dave (in the Campfire forum?). Not us.

My 2 cents.

Regards to everyone,

Tom

Having lived in the UK while stationed there in the military with the weapons most feared by the Europeans, The nuclear weapon (Ground Launched Cruise Misslile), has given me a unique understanding of the British mentality on self defense. The British people are Not adverse to self defense. On the contrary, with their history of defending themselves, let's see Saxons, Romans, Nazis, IRA etc. has shown they are not afraid of a fight, like their support of the US in Afgahanistan and Iraq.

The thing is, the government which is largely a social government, is adverse to weapons. If you took out a home invader with a cast iron skillet nobody would give it a second thought. Use something that resembles a weapon (mace/gun) it's a whole different story. it's the general belief that removing weapons removes violence that drive the laws in the UK.

We in the US are so fortunate the we have the right and privalige to use weapons in defending ourselves and our families. Even if that weapon is a flashlight.

All my love and thanks for the support of our British bretheren
Luke

Desertrat1,
Excellent point! <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Doesnt Surefire produce a range that actually stuns people the light is so bright? I think it is has the # 3000 in its name... Romania?

Re: self defense with a skillet in the UK, here's a newspaper article that covers this topic, that you may find interesting:
british newspaper article

I stand by my apolitical assertion that the British perspective on self defense is of little practical value, as it embodies severe restrictions that do not exist in the US.

Back to the thread - has anyone done any testing of striking surfaces with these types of heavy flashlights to see if they actually hold up? I have a couple of large maglights on either side of the bed, and though they feel solid, I wonder if they would simply break (i.e. physically deteriorate, or stop producing light) if used defensively. I've also know the lens to come unscrewed after some time of activity carrying one of these. FYI, I had a smaller maglight in my pocket on a roller coaster ride once, it almost completely disassembled during the ride!

On a related note, are there known LED plugins for the larger size of maglight? I've only seen a $5 kit for the smaller.

Personally the only flashlight I'd like to use for self defense is the weapon light on my SIG..... <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

> I don't believe that Dave (Brangdon) is saying that the UK situation is better or worse than USA
> situation. What I read is his explanation of how he understands UK police and courts view this
> sort of thing and likely responses in accordance with their laws and judicial system.

Yes, thank you. In fact I wouldn't have commented at all had the original poster not appeared to be giving advice to Americans about Europe. Eg, "... but in the majority of Europe such activities are illegal or highly frowned upon by the authorities". It seemed important to point out that weaponised flashlights are just as illegal here. I'm not claiming that's a good thing.

On that subject a new book from Phil Elmore is coming out of Paladin Press, it is called Flashlight fighting.

I'm thinking something like this:

I have, with a Streamlight SL20. My striking surface has been between the belt line and the bottom of the rib cage, usually with a wrist pop just prior to impact. I hold the bulb end, and strike with the other end. I find it easier to keep control of the flashlight this way. Every time, it had the desired effect...to back the person up and out of my personal space. (A good rule to remember: Don't try to intimidate the nice officer, especially us older ones.) I have also shined the light in people's eyes at night while they were advancing towards me. It stuns them for about five seconds, enough time for me to side step their advance and determine what, if anything, I want to do with them. Most were simply drunk (and therefore being stupid).

I only had one flashlight ever damaged. Not by dropping it down a flight of concrete stairs or putting it through a side window of a car, but when it was ripped from my hand by a German Shepard named "Misha". (I learned the name later.) I was walking onto his property to interview a witness, and the dog appeared out of nowhere and lunged at me. I had my flashlight in my hand and brought it up in front of me, and the dog took it and tore it into several chunks. By then, the owner appeared and took control of the dog. He was quite nice once we were "introduced".

TAD GEAR is also doing some fine crenellated bezels called a TIC (Tactical Impact crown)
But it must be a mistake, anybody knows that these bezels are there to let light scape when you put the torch head down <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I probably will get one for my wife's Fenix L1P.
They also have a size for the Minimag.



black bear

And in the meanwhile Surefire is selling the L-6 Porcupine at $600.00 a pop.





The light is truly a masterpiece of difficult machine work, and that crenellated bezel in stainless is hard to overlook.
cheers
black bear