This thread has the potential of a flame war. Near as the subject is to my own interests I will delete or lock it if civility becomes threatened or endangered. It's a curious irony, but many in the 'primative movement' or survivalism, and many outdoor recreations are very cavalier about the very resource they profess to 'love.' I cannot 'name names' but the attitudes I've encountered are at best sad. This curious 'industry' has a very small pie with lots of people clamoring for a slice. The best way to save something is to consider your own consumerism. Any 'expert' who fails to fill a few advanced warrior path weekend vision quests will either get the message, or spend more time out of his electrician's workvan. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Again people, be discrete and courteous with this thread.